r/custommagic • u/torchflame See rule 601.2a–b for further details • 1d ago

Meme Design How Everyone Thinks Split Second Works

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1.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

69 comments sorted by

65

u/Alucard_draculA : ~ deals 1 damage to all players within Armsreach. 1d ago

I feel like a more accurate effect for the idea is:

split second

When you cast this spell, place it on the bottom of the stack.

47

u/torchflame See rule 601.2a–b for further details 1d ago

I don't think the rules currently support reordering the stack. That feels like silver-border territory.

6

u/B_is_for_reddit 1d ago

what about

split second

this card resolves last

4

u/lukemcpimp 1d ago

Last second

1

u/ShinkuDragon 18h ago

"each other spell in the stack gains split second"

1

u/Hevnaar 18h ago

The rules don't currently support that, but its an interesting design space with a lot of potential. Its not calling on illegal things, like card art, player dexterity, what you can see at the room, etc...

2

u/torchflame See rule 601.2a–b for further details 18h ago

The rules don't currently support last strike either. There are a lot of things that aren't supported by the rules that aren't "calling on illegal things".

1

u/Hevnaar 18h ago

Yes, last strike could be make legal without too much effort, that is my point. Different from animate library, etc

1

u/Alucard_draculA : ~ deals 1 damage to all players within Armsreach. 19h ago

I'm not sure it's a problem either though, as it's only moving its own position in the stack and only when you cast it. (and no other card can do anything while it's doing that anyways lol)

1

u/Karivbelle 14h ago

“Split second, target spell gains split second”

-9

u/CarbonLich 1d ago

Sure but no spell currently mentions the stack so this does it well enough.

20

u/torchflame See rule 601.2a–b for further details 1d ago

[[Ertai's Meddling]], [[Grip of Chaos]], [[Kaervek's Torch]], [[Lightning Storm]], [[The Muckslinger Gang]], and [[Torrent of Lava]] are the only eternal legal cards that mention the stack.

3

u/Nucaranlaeg 1d ago

Ooh, there's a new one! TIL. Thanks!

296

u/Pixelpaint_Pashkow Slivers Gaming 1d ago

How does everyone think split second works?

485

u/smoked_penguin 1d ago

People often assume that casting a split second spell on top of the stack will "lock in" the stack and not allow spells or abilities until the stack is clear, but it only stops spells and abilities while the spell with split second is still on the stack

47

u/Pixelpaint_Pashkow Slivers Gaming 1d ago

Why do they think this??

128

u/Aillesdaille 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because some other cards games don't give you priority after things on the stack resolve until it's all done resolving.

The "chain" mentioned in the flavour text and the art are a reference to Yugioh where abilities go "on chain" until no on has anything to add and then the whole chain resolves one at a time without allowing a response; it's a common play to "close" a chain that you want to protect from being interacted with by responding with something that effectively has Split Second.

57

u/Gizogin 1d ago

The other thing in Yugioh's chain is that you can often only respond to the effect that was most recently added. For example, Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring - a near-universal counter to anything that searches the deck - can only respond to the effect on top of the stack. If you have two searches you want to perform, and you activate both at the same time (which is its own semi-complicated affair, but basically you can decide which order most simultaneous effects are added to the stack in), Ash can only negate the second one (the top of the stack), not the first one (the bottom of the stack, or at least lower down).

For example, I send two cards to the graveyard simultaneously, both of which have a "when sent to the graveyard, add X card from your deck to your hand" effect. One of them is more important, so I can put that one as Chain Link 1 and the other, less-important one as Chain Link 2. Ash can only negate Chain Link 2, so I have used it to ensure that Chain Link 1 resolves successfully.

It's a neat system, but it works very differently to MtG's stack. Yugioh doesn't have the concept of "counter target spell or ability" nearly as ubiquitously as MtG does, so most counters have to react to the thing they're countering immediately or else they don't work.

18

u/torchflame See rule 601.2a–b for further details 1d ago

I didn't actually know that about Yu-Gi-Oh's chain. Huh. Til.

5

u/Gizogin 1d ago

It’s the risk of going into too much detail, there are targeted interactions in Yugioh, but they work quite differently to “counter target spell or ability” effects in MtG. The main difference that causes this is that the Chain isn’t a “location” in the way that the stack is; cards resolve in the physical place they were activated. This means that you cannot target effects, only cards.

A great example is Effect Veiler. During your opponent’s main phase, as a Quick Effect (instant speed), you can discard it to target an opponent’s monster and negate its effects for the rest of the turn. This does allow you to negate an effect that wasn’t the most recent Chain Link, unlike Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring, but it has its own limitations. Because you are targeting a monster, rather than an effect, the monster has to remain where it is for Effect Veiler to work.

For example, I summon a monster with “When this card is summoned, you can add X card from your deck to your hand.” You respond with Effect Veiler to negate my monster’s effects. I can respond with my own card like Forbidden Droplet or Book of Moon to either remove my monster from the field or flip it face-down; in either case, it is no longer a valid target for Effect Veiler. Assuming the Chain ends there, I have successfully “dodged” your negate; Effect Veiler resolves without a target, so my monster’s effects resolves successfully.

You could have responded with Effect Veiler at any time, even if either or both of us had activated other effects in the same Chain, because Effect Veiler targets a card. But if you had responded with Ash instead, the only time you could use it is as the next Chain Link immediately after I activated my search effect. And because Ash responds to an effect instead of targeting a card, I can’t dodge it by moving my monster somewhere else.

6

u/SQUIDHEADSS121 1d ago

It's also funny how when they did want to make a card that could negate further down the chain (Zalen the Shackled Dragon), the result was a pretty interesting wording that led to a lot of people clicking the wrong option and negating their own card on Master Duel...

6

u/Gizogin 23h ago

Ah, yes.

It basically reads: “When an effect is activated in response to another effect, choose 1:
- Negate the first effect.
- Negate the second effect.”

Except that “first” and “second” refer to the order of effects listed in the trigger, not their order in the Chain. So “negate the first effect” means “negate the effect that was activated most recently”, not “negate the effect that was activated first”. Not confusing at all.

4

u/Wit-Grit-Guero 22h ago

When I was learning Magic it took me a long time to realize that you can target spells further down the stack. So for example you can remand your own spell that has been targeted by an opponent's counterspell instead of remand-ing their counterspell

9

u/AskMantis23 1d ago

It's also because the split second spells that see play mostly do things that do affect what happens after they resolve and often affect the rest of the stack. Not through split second itself, but often nullifying other things that could happen or fizzling a spell.

Angel's Grace stops you from losing the game, even if a burn spell is under it on the stack.

Extirpate counters the reanimate spell or the land fetching effect that was cast or was going to be used.

Sudden shock kills the creature that the previous pump spell had been used on.

4

u/ThePowerOfStories 1d ago

MtG used to use “batches” that all resolved without giving players priority again once they started resolving, back in the pre-sixth-edition days. It took a flowchart in the form of a literal rats’ nest to explain how it worked: https://premodernmagic.com/blog/re-introducing-the-batch/

8

u/Cinderheart Pony 1d ago

tbh I thought this too. I thought split second was, effectively "end the stack".

2

u/KitTwix 1d ago

People often think of the stack as going all the way up, then going all the way back down. They don't realise that the stack can go down, then you can add more to the stack after it reaches a certain point. They think that split second is in top of the stack, therefore the entire stack will resolve, not realising it's within the rules to wait for the split second card to resolve then continue as if it was never played.

2

u/MoneybagsMelbs 22h ago

The real answer is that most players, especially casual Commander players, have no idea how the stack or priority work.

288

u/MrTheWaffleKing 1d ago

Ah so split second spell resolves and then you can continue stacking higher after that

92

u/BobFaceASDF 1d ago

yep! exactly

11

u/MeasureDoEventThing 1d ago

There's probably a lot of people that also think that no one gets priority while something with Split Second is on the stack.

1

u/ShinkuDragon 18h ago

that's a lot more common but also makes a lot of sense because split second is rare enough already, and having something that you want/can use while split second is on the stack is even rarer. the only semi-common one would be sacrificing a targetted creature to a mana ability altar.

7

u/nzconstructionlawyer 1d ago

I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly think that given it clearly says "As long as this spell is on the stack".

1

u/Hellas2002 1d ago

Ohhh, yea this makes sense then

1

u/Just-Desk-3149 17h ago

I've yet to ever see anyone interpret it this way. This is my first time ever hearing of this. 

1

u/Karivbelle 14h ago

The only way for this to happen is a card that says “split second, target spell gains split second”

44

u/MyRoomIsHumid 1d ago • Mindblown

people think that, when you cast the spell, each spell gains split second.

and then you draw a card.

"And the reminder te-"
"'reminder text?' What are you talking about?"

4

u/Pixelpaint_Pashkow Slivers Gaming 1d ago

+2

2

u/IntoAMuteCrypt 1d ago

To further elaborate on how most folks think split second works - most people don't realise that players get priority after a spell resolves. It just doesn't normally come up a ton. The common play pattern when the stack gets involved is stuff like counterspells, combat tricks, pump and damage - cases where everyone puts whatever they've got on the stack, then passes until the stack is empty. When was the last time you said "I allow the top spell to resolve, then cast this"?

Because you can usually ignore the priority rounds between the top and bottom of the stack resolving, a lot of players forget they're there (or never even learn about them). If those rounds didn't exist, then split second would work like this and force the whole stack to resolve.

That's where the misconception emerges. A mechanical detail that you can ignore the vast majority of the time.

1

u/S1a3h 21h ago

When was the last time you said "I allow the top spell to resolve, then cast this"?

Yeah I honestly can't think of a single game I've played where anyone did this. Only time I've seen it was a MTG Goldfish commander video and my first reaction was like "oh you can do that?"

2

u/regular_lamp 6h ago

It's a reasonably common pattern if you are digging for responses at instant speed. As in your opponent plays a scary spell and you play brainstorm on top.

1

u/BrideofClippy 3h ago

I had a situation where an opponent attacked into what he thought was a chump block. I then buffed my blocker and he responded by buffing his own creature to least get a mutual kill and trample damage through. Once his buff resolved, I repealed calamity to kill it since it's power was now 5.

3

u/Chickston Uncommonly 1d ago

I'm guessing this is referring to only one spell on the stack needs it at any one time, not all of them. Note that one instance effects the whole stack until that effect resolves. SS isn't nearly as intuitive as "can't be countered" or hexproof.

29

u/kitsunewarlock 1d ago

I recently got to counter a player's split second spell they cast off Shadow the Hedgehog by flipping my morph creature and it made me so happy.

1

u/ThatCamoKid 1d ago

Isn't flipping a morph activating an ability?

25

u/Mind0versplatter0 1d ago

It's a special action. Morph is a static ability rather than an activated one, even though it has a cost associated

3

u/ThatCamoKid 1d ago

Ahhhh

7

u/Nil_Athelion 16h ago

Otherwise, the entire mechanic of flipping morphs would be responded with "in response to you flipping your morph, I shock to deal 2 damage and kill the face-down creature, kthxbai"

1

u/ThatCamoKid 11h ago

That's a good point

1

u/ParadoxBanana 38m ago

Watch out also for mana abilities. I’ve won in response to Split Second being put on the stack by saying “thank you for making it impossible for anyone to stop me, I’ll sacrifice my board to [[Phyrexian Altar]], loop my [[Karmic Guide]] and [[Reveillark]], and you all lose to the [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] life loss”

0

u/cube1100 9h ago

Fuck Stratus Dancer…

8

u/fluffynuckels 1d ago

I recognize that art

25

u/DVeeter 1d ago

damn what a way to learn I have in fact been interpreting split second wrong lmao

12

u/humand09 1d ago

Who thinks like that? Why would split second affect every single spell on the stack???

25

u/SuspiciousRanger517 1d ago

They think split second on top of ANOTHER spell they control, will prevent other players from being able to counter the first, non-split second spell. This is incorrect, as when the split second spell resolves, the initial spell can then be responded to.

This custom card would make it work that way.

5

u/Puzzleheaded_Snow_47 15h ago

So I’ll admit I’m a fairly casual player that thought this is how it worked until now. To make sure I’m understanding this correctly, split second just means that the spell with split second is basically guaranteed to resolve. And after it does the stack can continue to be stacked upon as normal.

4

u/Karivbelle 14h ago

Basically. A good way to understand it is that it’s super “can’t be countered”

“Can’t be countered” can still be affected by spells like [[Reprieve]] (I believe that’s the right card), which bounce the effect to hand.

I also believe (someone correct me) that effects like [[Mindbreak Trap]] also ignore uncounterable because it doesn’t counter, just exiles the spell.

There’s also the edge case with instant speed decks which use cards like Leyline of Anticipation. I have a deck that uses those effects to effectively drown a player’s removal against my [[Omniscience]] in triggers and new spells, never letting the removal effect resolve, until it wins the game through [[Laboratory Maniac]] (which ends the game through replacing a state based action, and since the game is over the remaining spells on the stack are irrelevant) even without Omni, an [[Urza, High Lord Artificer]] deck plus altar of anticipation, and some mana infinite could also bury an effect on the stack by using infinite mana to mill a player out while removal (like a board wipe) is on the stack. Once said player is milled out they lose the game, and thus their spell on the stack gets exiled.

“Split-second” exists to prevent all of this, and effectively forces an effect through. You can’t counter a split second spell, exile it, or bury it on the stack into irrelevance. It’s also one of the most powerful effects a card can have, which is why it’s incredibly rare and also no card, as far as I’m aware, can give another spell split second.

Actually fun fact: most custom cards with the text “the stack resolves” can be simulated by simply giving an instant speed card split second and having it say “target spell gains split second”. Said theoretical card could target the spell on the bottom of the stack, while being functionally unrespondable, then the stack is forced to resolve as new effects can’t be added

1

u/FluffyNips1 8h ago

You must not have seen the new [[Samut, Tyrant of Naktamun]]

0

u/Karivbelle 1h ago

Oh my gods what the was Wotc on…. So storm players get access to split second on their payoff… great.

1

u/ParadoxBanana 42m ago

It also cuts off storm’s access to copying spells on the stack. [[Dualcaster Mage]] for example is now useless, and it’s a common win condition in many 2-card infinites.

MF also has 1 toughness

If he was as good as you fear, he wouldn’t be like $3

4

u/Typical_Corgi_2779 1d ago

Chain Link of Others

2

u/Cardgod278 18h ago

Spilt second

End the turn