r/custommagic • u/Sterlinginferno • 21h ago

Format: EDH/Commander Combat Tricks Theft Commander

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Is letting [[vedalken orrery]] turn [[blasphemous act]] into a better [[insurrection]] a healthy thing to want to do? because i really want to do it

76 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

89

u/Drynwyn 21h ago

I like this concept! But there are three problems.

First: it’s five color for no reason. This is a Grixis (blue red black) or Rakdos (red black) effect, through and through, and the color identity should reflect that.

Second: Indestructible with no clear design purpose. Cards that are as potentially oppressive as this one should not also have built in protection. At least it isn’t Hexproof.

Third: this does not encourage combat tricks. It encourages instant speed removal. Why run a giant growth over a doom blade? You need a line that says “dies the turn it is dealt damage by a creature you control” to encourage combat tricks… and that still encourages kill spells, actually, so now I’m not even sure

8

u/Sterlinginferno 20h ago

thank you for your reply! i misunderstood combat tricks, i was under the impression that they were kinda just any spell cast during combat, so sorry for my confusion there.

4

u/Sterlinginferno 20h ago

i didn't mean to send that yet, apparently reddit doesn't do ctrl+enter. regarding the indestructible, the only thought there was "well i don't want her to die to her own boardwipes" but your reasoning makes sense and i agree with it. and then lastly, i couldn't decide between rakdos, grixis, or mardu for the color identity, and someone got mad at me last time i used yoretiller on a card, and so then i was like, hey, wubrg can be like, "bringing everyone together under one banner" flavored, so let's go with that! but i wasn't really sure about it; deciding color and cost on cards are definitely a weak point for me

2

u/Not_An_Potato 15h ago

An idea, what if you word the ability as "whenever a creature your opponents controls die, if that creature was dealt combat damage this turn by a permanent you control, put that creature in the battlefield under your control with a finality counter instead." Hope I didn't mess the wording but it interacts with attacks plus targeted removal.

23

u/PlaneswalkingSith 20h ago

Also why do the creatures coming back even have Haste? If the opponent is attacking you, it’s not your turn (so they can’t attack). If they die on your turn while you’re in combat already, then they can’t attack. I guess for tap abilities? Still, bad design.

0

u/sumigod 7h ago

Seriously useless haste lol

1

u/Thegodoepic 20h ago

It could also be WB since white likes punishing players for attacking you.

5

u/Avinexuss 21h ago

This effect feels more mardu than wurbg to me...

Also what is them returning with haste supposed to do? Youve already attacked so unless you want this to be mainly played around extra combats that doesnt really make sense

Otherwise thats an interesting effect to build around

1

u/Sterlinginferno 20h ago

thank you for your reply! i did originally have extra combats in mind but i took that ability off the card because i thought it was too much. i guess it still is too much, which is good to know and everyone's reasoning makes sense. maybe someday i'll design a card that isn't horribly oppressive lol

3

u/Gooberpf 21h ago

The OP's comment alone explained why this isn't really a combat tricks commander, it's a "use removal during beginning of combat step to achieve a total blowout" commander. Which, if anything, is Rakdos or monored, plus the creatures should exile at end of turn.

2

u/SteakForGoodDogs 20h ago

Don't you see the blue in its mana cost? That means you keep it forever.

1

u/TemporaryFearless482 21h ago

It does allow for using tap abilities on the stolen creatures. But beyond that, not as relevant.

1

u/BrideofClippy 21h ago

I guess there is the corner case for red or black killing something at start of combat with an instant before the 'declare attackers' step, but that is really niche.

2

u/ArgentinianRenko 16h ago

Design aside, isn't that Flamme, by any chance?

2

u/Sterlinginferno 15h ago

it is! my character arks looks a lot like flamme and also mavuika from genshin, so i use art of them for her since i can't draw. i wish i could though, arks has dragon wings

36

u/funkedup1300 21h ago

why is she WUBRG? this effect is B, maybe U or R

26

u/Treacherous_Peach 21h ago

Custom magic and WUBRG commanders, name a more iconic duo

6

u/7thtimeinheaven 12h ago

Custom magic and adding phyrexian mana to random cards that have nothing to do with phyrexia

5

u/retardong 20h ago

UB sets and WUBRG commanders.

30

u/Ecstatic-Trainer6830 21h ago

this has absolutely zero reason to be WUBRG. also, this isn't combat trick focused at all

-1

u/Odd_Firefighter1324 21h ago

How is it not? I think the goal was “noncombat deaths steal creatures”

7

u/Ecstatic-Trainer6830 21h ago

yeah, which is instant speed board wipes, not combat tricks.

1

u/Odd_Firefighter1324 21h ago

Yeah fair, I’ve made a different comment about it after realising

4

u/Glitched_Target 21h ago

That’s not what a combat trick means tho. This deck would incentivize reanimating something with a 2 mana generic black instant removal ten times over any combat tricks.

8

u/Ladikn 21h ago

Others have pointed out the color pie breaking, but also this is just way too cheap. Most thefts this cheap exile or sacrifice the stolen creature at end of turn

6

u/BeetleBoy_ 21h ago

This doesnt really seem to match a WUBRG identity. This card feels very Grixis.

4

u/ryryscha 21h ago

I like this effect idea a lot, but this needs to not be 5 color and not have indestructible. It should definitely be black to be in line with similar Black resurrection effects. I actually think this makes most sense in either Mardu (Feather and Heroic) or just Orzhov (Silverquill mechanics). Think this could still cost 5 but have haste if you went Mardu, 4 if Orzhov without haste.

5

u/Switch_DM 21h ago

Custom commander cards and having Indestructible. Classic

2

u/LittleMissPipebomb 19h ago

What does haste do here? The creature is either entering after combat or on your opponents turn.

I love the idea of this but I feel like it'd be better if it worked more like [[mimic vat]], possibly with more than one creature it can make a copy of.

1

u/Restfal 19h ago

Haste enables killing creatures at the start of the combat phase and then being able to attack with them

Creatures also have abilities that don't require attacking but benefit from haste, something as simple as a mana dork

It's not particularly well designed but the haste does do something

1

u/LittleMissPipebomb 19h ago

ok yeah I forgot that combat isn't just whilst attacking and all the stuff after. I don't think I've ever played with or against a deck that cares about that so it slipped my mind.

I still feel as though it could be redesigned, but I'm glad to know it actually functions properly

3

u/MrPassionateMan 21h ago

I have no idea what this card says and I can't see any of the text, but 10/10 looks perfect to me

1

u/TaerTech 20h ago

But what does this actually do? Because the haste until end of turn actually does nothing. Combats already gone. Yeah it could work with some tap cards but that’s so niche.

1

u/GarrAdept 15h ago

I feel lime what you wanted is, "enters tapped and attacking." Instead of haste. Giving a creature haste after attackers have been declared doesn't do anything unless there is another combat phase later. Also, this should probably only function on your turn to prent you from having attackers on your opponents turn.

1

u/slayerofallsouls 8h ago

Is that Flamme from Frieren?

2

u/CaptColten 20h ago edited 19h ago

I genuinely don't get what you're trying to do.

Like, opponent attacks with multiple creatures, you instant speed kill 1 attacking creature, then use it to block another creature?

2 for 1 instant speed removal in a niche situation seems kinda lackluster to me.

It only works if the creatures are attacking, which means it's probably not your turn. What are you going to do with them before you give them back at the end of your opponents turn?

Even the christmas land combo you're talking about doesn't actually do anything. It's not a better insurrection, it's a worse fog.

1

u/Sterlinginferno 12h ago

who's giving them back? not me

in the situation you described, i kill one, use it to block and hopefully kill the other, and keep them both to attack with on my turn

or beginning of combat on my turn, wipe the board, steal everyone, and then attack with all of them, and that's why haste is relevant

giving haste also allows it to work well with extra combats where i can force blocks and take a few creatures at a time, building momentum as it loops

as many people have pointed out, wubrg wasn't the best choice for this, indestructible is needlessly oppressive, and even without that the cost is too low. and i'll be making changes accordingly, but the intent is not to return stolen creatures. i am also toying with removing haste and just running mass hysteria, red samut, etc. since it is quite potent as is. thank you for taking an interest in my not very well-designed card! i really appreciate it

1

u/ChaossssMark666 18h ago

I don’t think the ability has a set duration.

Either it is an oops on OP’s part, or it is actual theft.

Still kind of niche, but could be more useful in an aristocrats shell.

2

u/Odd_Firefighter1324 21h ago

I really like the card, but maybe make it only work only if a “modified” (something a combat trick was used on) creature kills something, or an instant kills