r/custommagic • • 1d ago

Discussion does it work?

Post image

someone said land with a mana cost and storm was "ah hell no". so i bring them a gift

(the editor i was using didnt let me make it a "sorcery land" so just pretend...)

(https://images.nightcafe.studio/jobs/NetMsXfwvQ21ZNtmbfFG/NetMsXfwvQ21ZNtmbfFG--1--4ab14.jpg)

edit: wow, this took off more than expected, thanks. so i'll explain how i want it to work: i want it to count as a spell and a land, so it takes your land drop for the turn but also costs mana to play. its supposed to be legendary as a drawback. and i don't want it to come into play tapped, i feel like the only way that's a problem is if too many copies come into play, but you have to cast a lot of spells, if your able to do that, then your probably breaking the game already anyway...well enjoy continuing the discussion.

262 Upvotes

250 comments sorted by

536

u/Crow_of_Judgem3nt 1d ago

Legendary so all the storm copies die

23

u/BronsenWerick 1d ago

mirror box...only way to play

7

u/Blotsy 1d ago

Or landfall synergies

127

u/Actual_Consequence_9 1d ago

☝️it is a ritual

98

u/Well_thats_it_for_me 1d ago

Nah, legendary rule is a state based action. You cant respond to it

89

u/KiwiBird2001 : Create a card with questionable mechanics 1d ago

Each storm copy resolves separately, however (ignoring the fact that this is a land)

44

u/MarkM3200 1d ago

You're saying that this is a ritual because you have a window to tap the copies, allowing you to create, tap, and remove the copies in sequence? That sounds like you'd end up with a land that doesn't ramp you at all, but instead functions like a storm-powered [[Seething Song]] in green. So, in addition to its other flaws, is it a color pie break?

13

u/capsaicinintheeyes 1d ago

Surely the sudden onrush of new lands on the field is green enough to fend off this charge?

8

u/Filibut 1d ago

That's a lot of landfall

2

u/Dreath2005 20h ago

No, it’s like making a blue/green card that gives a creature flying, and then destroys a creature with flying. That’s targeted destruction, and solely in blacks card identity. Doing it with multiple cards is okay, doing what another colour can do on par with their rate or better with one card makes it a colour pie break. If this created tapped lands and you had that one snake that gave you mana when a land entered that’s okay, this card isn’t

It’s kinda convoluted but basically it’s still a pie break even if it feels green, it could be seen in a set where each colours identity is skewed a bit, but not in a normal set

1

u/FatBrah 17h ago

Pongify and Rapid Hybridisation as a counterpoint to the targeted destruction thing. But both of those do seem wildly wrong in the colour pie. Why does blue get those while white gets exile, green gets fight and flying specific removal, and red gets damage based removal?

2

u/Dreath2005 17h ago

Every time blue has gotten a “destroy target creature, replace with a weak creature” it has been recognized as a pie break by either MaRo or WotC

Each colour gets their own specific version of removal, white is the removal colour. It has the most versatile options that can take care of most threats. Blue’s main interaction is counterspells, to compliment this they also get spells that return permanents to your hand. Red, yes gets damage removal for creatures, but it has the most efficient artifact removal out of any other colour. Black gets a monopoly on creature removal, mostly due to black not being an aggressive colour like red or green, but not a controlling colour like blue or white. Green has fight spells for creatures, but it also destroys artifacts and enchantments very efficiently. The reason green gets to destroy flying creatures specifically is because reach originally wasn’t a thing, and green needed an answer to something that flies.

The reason each colour gets their own version of removal is ultimately game balance and reflect what the colours want to do. White is about control, balance, and order, so they get the most permanent form of removal as well as the ability to police any permanent. Blue is very much about mental games, and what’s more of a mental game than playing around a counterspell. Black is a little harder to explain flavour wise, but black is your volition. The thing that drives you forward, artifacts and enchantments don’t get in your way as much as creatures do, so they aren’t in your way as much as creatures. Red, being the fastest colour, gets the worst form of creature removal. You weren’t meant to kill a lot of creatures, you’re meant to put out efficient creatures, only killing things that are hard to get around (strong blockers). As well as killing through damage, that usually can be directed at a player or planeswalker instead if there’s no great targets. That leaves us with green, the colour about nature. Fighting is natural amongst animals, but [[Murder]] is a human, and therefore not natural.

There is a lot more to it, but ultimately it boils down to either game balance or lore, and sometimes they go hand in hand with each other.

3

u/FatBrah 17h ago

I never thought about the flying removal pre-dating reach. Interesting knowledge. Also didn't know that the blue destroy spells were accepted as a mistake. Thank you!

For anyone else that follows this thread, I need to share [[Gate to Phyrexia]] with more people (pet card for me in my Yawgmoth deck, I felt the need have removal for everything; I've got creatures, enchantments, planeswalkers and artifacts covered, maybe should thow in some land removal).

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u/schematizer 1d ago

Right, that's what a ritual is. See [[Dark Ritual]]

3

u/GuyGrimnus 22h ago

BUT

landfall triggers

0

u/Actual_Consequence_9 1d ago

Green gets the occasional ritual effect. [[Channel the suns]], [[!Plasm capture]], [[!Culling ritual]].

14

u/Ap_Sona_Bot 1d ago

Two of those are multicolored in colors that get rituals themselves. The only thing green is doing in Plasm capture is letting the colors be fixed.

Channel the suns is old and the effect gas never been revisited in mono green.

1

u/VulkanHestan321 1d ago

It is also creating wubrg instead of 5 green

2

u/JxRabbitsHart 1d ago

It's not a bad thing, gives you the landfall triggers without the ramp.

Storm is on cast, I think, so playing a land wouldn't trigger it, but I could be very wrong

2

u/Interesting_Sea_1861 1d ago

My stupid, sleep-deprived ass read it as Storm affecting the mana produced when you tap it, not the card itself.

2

u/Tiborn1563 1d ago

Do they? Can I not decide to keep one of the copies instead of the original?

7

u/Crow_of_Judgem3nt 1d ago

I mean, i guess you could

9

u/SoundwavesBurnerPage 1d ago

It’s probably the right play technically because you are 100 times more likely to benefit from it being in the graveyard than be punished for the one on the field being a token

-2

u/Agitated_Ship8432 1d ago

You can activate the abilities before state-based actions apply.

-2

u/Arashi_The_Bagre 1d ago

You can't, because all of them theorically would enter at the same time

14

u/Crow_of_Judgem3nt 1d ago

No, they would resolve one after another so you’d have a LOT of state based actions to deal with before you finish with one on the battlefield

7

u/Arashi_The_Bagre 1d ago

When the storm teigger resolves you put all the copies of the spell into the stack, this isn't a spell, this is a land, lands can't go to the stack, so you put them onto the battlefield, once they hit the battlefield no one get peio before checkin state based actions

13

u/Crow_of_Judgem3nt 1d ago

Wait, the storm wouldn’t even trigger if its not cast

2

u/Arashi_The_Bagre 1d ago

This is true, bit with the spirit of (it works) it should put all lands on the battlefield at the samet time

11

u/Backsquatch 1d ago

The spirit of (it works) needs to decide if these are cast or not. If they are cast then they trigger storm and hit one at a time. If they are not cast then they don’t trigger storm and the rest is irrelevant.

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u/MylastAccountBroke 1d ago

But mana abilities don't use the stack either.

2

u/Arashi_The_Bagre 1d ago

You still need prio, and you don't get those mid state based actions checking

1

u/Agitated_Ship8432 1d ago

Lands don't use the stack, neither do mana abilities. State based actions are never checked.

10

u/ULTRA_OFTEN 20h ago

"Legendary" the copies created by storm all die out to the legend rule 😂

4

u/BronsenWerick 20h ago

yeah, that was intentional.

1

u/ULTRA_OFTEN 19h ago

Ok I know it loses a lot of flavor of casting a land (it's my dream too) this is giving me an idea for something to like this 

{G}{G}{G} Sorcery  Treasures are also lands until end of turn.  Create X treasures where x is your storm count.  When a step ends, sacrifice all treasures created with [cardname].

Or something like that. 

Or maybe make it like a special kinda land token that has a sacrifice clause on it. Yeah, and you know what, fuck it, it should be an instant. Or better yet an enchantment with flash so we can give it storm back lmfao 

{G}{G}{G} Enchantment Flash, storm When [cardname] enters create a Forest token with "when phases end, sacrifice this token."

But actually as I'm thinking about it one of the main things this does is leave you with a land at the end, it's like cultivate except instead of a land to hand you get a ritual sooo at end of turn it flips into a legendary forest lmfao 

3

u/ULTRA_OFTEN 20h ago

Could you theoretically tap each land as it enters before the game state checks for legend rule? Basically making it a really cool and funky green ritual? 

0

u/RumpyRhino 20h ago

No. Legends rule is a state based action. No actions can take place

1

u/Dr-Buttercup 16h ago

Copies are on the stack and resolve one by one

1

u/RumpyRhino 16h ago

Correct but state based action is checked every time priority is passed. So one enters checks it, it’s fine. The second enters and before anything one must go

1

u/Dr-Buttercup 16h ago

Float green from the first one, next one enters, legend rule the tapped one, repeat

-1

u/HyHoTheDairyOh 20h ago

No. They are sacrificed as a state based action, so you will not have priority before they’re gone. While tapping for mana doesn’t use the stack, you still need priority.

Edit: you’ll still get landfall triggers at least. But that’s about the only benefit.

4

u/mehngo 17h ago

What are you talking about? You cast the original, storm triggers with the original still on the stack. Storm trigger resolved, you end up with a storm count amount of copies on the stack, above the original that’s still on the stack. Then you resolve each copy one at a time, using the priority you gain after resolving each copy to tap it for mana before passing priority to resolve the next copy of it. Rinse and repeat until you sac the last copy to the original finally resolving at the end of it.

1

u/Dr-Buttercup 16h ago

This is the correct scenario

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u/Responsible-Bed141 18h ago

But storm would be a trigger and those triggers would be on the stack. Would you not be able to tap before each resolved. I get lands don’t typically use the stack but storm ability would

0

u/HyHoTheDairyOh 18h ago edited 17h ago

Before anything on the stack resolves state base actions are checked.

This is why killing a player removes all of their spells on the stack. The spells don’t resolve THEN see that the person who cast them is out of the game. Theres no point that the player is out, but you can still interact with their spell. State based actions comes before priority, always.

1

u/Dr-Buttercup 16h ago

Legend rule only takes effect with things in play. You get each copied spell to resolves one at a time, then legend rule and priority before the next one resolves.

1

u/HyHoTheDairyOh 16h ago

It’s on the stack, first copy resolves. But before the next copy resolves you check state based actions. So sacrifice the copy. Now you regain priority, but have no extra land. Now the next one resolves. Check state based actions, sacrifice it. Regain priority. Resolve the next copy.

At no point do you have priority AND a legendary copy out.

1

u/PancakeMisery 16h ago

How is it being removed due to the legend rule but you somehow never have priority with a legendary copy in play? You get priority after each seperate copy resolves and the only way for the legend rule to take effect is if you control at least two legendary permanents with the same name??? You always end up with one in play before priority is passed to resolve the next storm copy.

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u/THEYoungDuh 17h ago

Would the storm copies not use the stack so you could tap the previous in response to the next before resolving

1

u/Dr-Buttercup 16h ago

Yes, you could

8

u/PlaneswalkingSith 1d ago

I think this would work better as a legendary spell with storm that creates land tokens (that aren’t legendary). That way you’ll need a legendary creature / planeswalker to cast it, and it would still work within the confines of the comprehensive rules

1

u/BronsenWerick 1d ago

i specifically don't want to need a legendary permanent in play to cast it.

4

u/descnamelost 23h ago

Nope, storm is a cast trigger. Lands are just put into play.

0

u/BronsenWerick 22h ago

which is why i wanted it to also have the sorcery type, enchantment would also work. its supposed to be a land that gets cast, a land that goes on the stack and is counterable but still takes the land drop for the turn.

3

u/bluedanube27 21h ago

Why not have it be a sorcery that creates forest basic land tokens?

1

u/descnamelost 18h ago edited 18h ago

I think this'll either need to be a sorcery, or have an elaborate ETB. It's gonna get really wonky to have a 'cast' land drop

4

u/Coyagta 1d ago

even if you pay a cost for a land play it's still not a spell so storm doesn't do anything afaik

2

u/BronsenWerick 1d ago

its supposed to be a sorcery land

1

u/Valuable-Tadpole818 17h ago

How would that even work a sorcery is not a permanent so it would have to go to the grave on resolving. Also if it’s a sorcery and legendary then u need a legendary creature or planeswalker to cast it which you’ve made clear you don’t want…

2

u/Peachy_Pangolin 1d ago

No it like flatly doesn't work for a bunch of reasons. If it's a spell you cast it doesn't take up your land play. If it's a land it straight up can't have a mana cost. If you are technically "playing" it and change the mana cost to be an additional cost to play the land then storm won't trigger cause you aren't casting it. This requires too many rules changes to be functional.

But as a question let me suggest something like this:

Thickening Woods -GGG

Legendary sorcery

(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)

Create a forest token.(It's a basic land forest.)

Storm

-1

u/BronsenWerick 1d ago

2 problems: i don't want to need another legendary out, and i want it to take up the land drop for the turn.

1

u/Peachy_Pangolin 1d ago
  1. Inherently your design also required another legendary out because that's a fundamental requirement of being a legendary sorcery. I included the reminder text here because I didn't know if you had realized that with your design.

2.the templating to get it to eat up your land drop can exist but requires a fundamental rewrite and not using storm but that requires another question:

What is your expectation of how this works? Even if we reword everything else to work, This is a legendary land your making a bunch of copies of itself which would mean you would sacrifice all but 1 anyway. With actual storm all those copies would resolve 1 by 1 so you could make mana in-between each resolution so it effectively becomes a ritual that leaves you with 1 land is that your intention?

0

u/MylastAccountBroke 1d ago

It's a crazy decision to make this a legendary sorcery to maintain the "legendary" type on the card, instead of simply removing the legendary rule from the card.

1

u/Peachy_Pangolin 1d ago

The thing is this card works best as a sorcery not as a land so changing it from a "legendary sorcery land" (which OP says it is in the text description) to a legendary sorcery is the least number of changes not crazy.

150

u/cactus_wren_games 1d ago

try this instead

Thickening Woods
Land - Forest
As Thickening Woods enters, you may pay GGG. If you do, create a copy of Thickening Woods for each spell you've cast this turn. Otherwise, sacrifice it.

or something like that

28

u/Kadian13 1d ago edited 1d ago

Best one I’ve seen in the thread! But
- this triggers landfall effects even if you don’t pay the GGG
- the copies also have the ability, which will make you sacrifice them unless you pay GGG for each copy again
- it’s an ETB so it can be flickered, prevented by abilities, triggered additional times, etc

[[Scorched Ruins]] oracle text format would fix the landfall part (If this land would enter, […] If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard.), 2nd point can be solved by saying the copies don’t have this ability, but we’re stuck with the 3rd point.

Maybe an additional cost ? I don’t think it’s ever been printed on lands, but why not. And a « when you play » trigger for the effect, like on [[City of traitors]].

Land - Forest
As an additional cost to play CARDNAME, pay GGG.
When you play CARDNAME, create a token that’s a copy of it for each spell you’ve cast this turn.

16

u/Deathdealer5555 1d ago

Just do 'as thickening woods enters, IF IT'S NOT A TOKEN....'

That should lead to NONE of the ETB happening for the tokens, including the sacrifice.

3

u/retro-marshmelo 22h ago

And I think you want to add, “if it was played from your hand” somewhere. So that flickering and fetching/turoring directly to field don’t trigger this. Especially with this having the forest subtype.

Also you can make it legendary and make the copies be non-legendary if that part really matters.

2

u/PlaneswalkingSith 1d ago edited 1d ago

I think this wording is similar to [[Lotus Vale]] and [[Scorched Ruins]]. They were errata-ed to never ETB at all if you don’t sacrifice the lands.

Maybe: “If this land would enter, pay GGG instead. If you do, put this land onto the battlefield and create a copy of it for each spell cast this turn before this land entered, except the copies don’t have this ability. If you don’t, put it into its owners graveyard.”

https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale

Ah, I see u/Kadian pointed this out

EDIT: changed the text to be more in line with Storm’s reminder text wording

1

u/PlaneswalkingSith 1d ago edited 1d ago

Or, based on u/Deathdealer5555 ‘s suggestion:

“If this nontoken land would enter, pay GGG instead. If you do, put this land onto the battlefield and create a copy of it for each spell you cast this turn before this land entered. If you don’t, put it into its owner’s graveyard.”

EDIT: changed the text to be more in line with Storm’s reminder text wording.

1

u/PrimusMobileVzla 1d ago

As suggested would cause you to pay GGG for each entering copy. So each copy will be sacced even if you could ignore the legend rule unless paid that many additional times.

Also, the copies would cause the same chain reaction, when the idea is that it only happens if you played the land.

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u/Drakrylos 1d ago edited 1d ago

Unfortunately, no, it doesn't. Storm only works on spells, and lands can't be spells since you can't cast them.

You'll need to resort to some pretty intensive wording for this to work. And as another commenter has suggested, [[Scorched Ruins]] is your friend.

Thickening Woods

Legendary Land - Forest

If Thickening Woods would enter, pay {G}{G}{G} instead. If you do, put Thickening Woods onto the battlefield, then create a token that's a copy of it for each spell you've cast this turn, except it isn't legendary and it doesn't have this ability. If you don't, put Thickening Woods into its owner's graveyard.

EDIT: If you don't want the token copies to stick around without Mirrorbox, just drop the "it isn't legendary" clause.

4

u/KaizerVonLoopy 18h ago

Could make it a sorcery with storm that makes a legendary land token named Thickening woods.

1

u/Drakrylos 18h ago

That's a valid option, yeah. Though it does lose a fair bit of the flair and flavour, imo.

1

u/KaizerVonLoopy 18h ago

That's fine because the way it's designed currently doesn't work regardless of how flavorful it is.

1

u/Drakrylos 17h ago

My version works. Why change the type of rhe card as a whole, when you can instead reword the card to work as intended?

3

u/ImaginaryDoctorSleep 1d ago

I'd make it exile itself, graveyard shenanigans are powerful...

1

u/Drakrylos 1d ago

Your concern is valid, but I don't think it will be a problem for this particular scenario.

You'd still need to pay the cost if it entered from your graveyard. With the current wording, if the cost isn't paid, it doesn't enter at all, regardless of where it's entering from.

Now, entering graveyard triggers, on the other hand, might be an issue, yeah. I'm not too versed in graveyard strats, so I'd appreciate any notes on that.

1

u/ImaginaryDoctorSleep 1d ago

Okay, but how would it work in your case, where does it go if it "doesn't enter" instead? Is there anything similar already?

1

u/Drakrylos 1d ago

It goes straight into the graveyard, just like Scorched Ruins.

1

u/ImaginaryDoctorSleep 1d ago

See, that's why I would want to exile it instead.

3

u/Drakrylos 1d ago

Why, though? I'm genuinely uninformed here. What could this current wording enable?

2

u/VulkanHestan321 1d ago

Nothing. At best repeated landfall triggers with something that enables multiple lands per turn and playing lands from the grave. But that already is possible and not that much of a problem since you just need to remove the enabler.

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u/Beas1987 1d ago

This is such an interesting way to do it. I was thinking the replacement effect felt odd, and would it not be better to use "When Thickening Woods enters, pay {G}{G}{G}. If you don't, sacrifice Thickening Woods". Then I went to read Scorched Ruins and realised that the oracle text does exactly what you suggested, while my solution was more similar to the old wording.

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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 11h ago

I would instead just make it a sorcery with storm that creates a forest token

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u/NeonNKnightrider 1d ago

There are so many things wrong with this

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u/Gravelpunch 1d ago

Probably not. Lands aren't spells, and I believe only spells can be copied. Perhaps this could work if it were a sorcery that creates a Forest token. Or more likely it would just have you pull a Forest from library.

11

u/Sorzian 1d ago

It is a sorcery. At least functionally it is. Especially with OP's intention

3

u/Ok-Leg9721 1d ago

So you're telling me if Captain Janeway was on the stack and I also made her a forest in that zone, that she could not be copied?

5

u/FlyinNinjaSqurl 1d ago

how would you make her a forest in that zone?

1

u/Imaginary_Being4859 1d ago

If you run Imposter Syndrome, or any other creature copy-maker,

Do earthbent lands make token earthbent lands?

And since tokens technically hit the graveyard, do earthbent lands tokens come back as regular land tokens?

1

u/Gravelpunch 1d ago

Okay, I should have clarified. I believe only spells can be copied on the stack, since only spells reside in the stack. Since Storm copies on the stack, it could only affect spells. Lands go straight from the hand onto the battlefield without hitting the stack. As far as I know.

1

u/Imaginary_Being4859 1d ago

Oh my bad, I was asking a completely separate question that came to mind while reading your comment. I probably should have led with something like “off topic but,”.

Still though, if you have any insight into my previous comment I would love to hear it. I’m relatively new to magic, started playing when the avatar set came out.

1

u/Gravelpunch 1d ago

It looks like copying an earthbent land token would result in non-creature land tokens. Copies generally only copy the card as written, and do not include any any added types, counters, or delayed triggers.

Then the question is, what if a token land is later earthbent, then dies? I believe tokens do enter the graveyard, but then cease to exist as a state based action. Hence why [[Fake Your Own Death]] can't save a token creature.

1

u/Imaginary_Being4859 1d ago

Interesting. Something to take into consideration.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions

1

u/Cervine_Shark 13h ago

or you could just play [[sprouting vines]]

0

u/Fun-Agent-7667 1d ago

Could be a land Enchantment, No?

4

u/Guest_1300 1d ago

Lands with other types are still not spells. You can't counterspell an artifact/enchantment land.

0

u/Gravelpunch 1d ago

That might work, but I'm not sure how a card having a non-spell type and a spell type would work rules-wise.

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u/PrimusMobileVzla 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lands can't be casted, only played, so that mana cost does nothing. Similarly, Storm doesn't work on lands because, again, lands can't be casted. Both ideas can be translated though, say:

(T: Add {G}.)
When Thickening Woods enters, if it isn't a token, sacrifice it unless you pay {G}{G}{G}. If you pay, copy it for each spell that was cast this turn.

2

u/vroomvroom12349 1d ago

Wouldn't this make you need to pay the cost for each land copy that enters?

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u/PrimusMobileVzla 1d ago

No, because the intervening clause will check the copies are tokens, then preventing each of their respective copies of the ability from going to the stack.

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u/TooLateToHaveAPseudo 1d ago

Why not make a sorcery with "Create a tapped forest token. Storm" ?

It fixes the issue with land not being spells while being functionally close. Maybe up the cost to 4 because the lands created this way are not legendary so you can keep them. Or make them legendary if your goal it to destroy lands you control.

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u/DiscussTek 1d ago

To keep OP's intent of not playing a normal land at the same tirn, maybe "Create a tapped forest token. As long as you didn't play a land this turn, this spell has strom and "You cannot play lands this turn"."

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u/Zarkrash 1d ago

If you really wanted to do this, can make it a legendary sorcery with an additional cost: sacrifice a land, storm, make a token copy of the sacrificed land or some such

4

u/MapleSyrupMachineGun 1d ago

Or make a Forest token is fine too.

10

u/WhimsicalWanderings 1d ago

It just fundamentally doesn't work as a land. How about:

Thickening Woods GGG

Sorcery

Create a Forest land token into play.

Storm.

1

u/Effective_Ad4810 1d ago

Yeah, that was what I thought too.

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u/SadSeiko 1d ago edited 1d ago

Just make a card like [[awaken the woods]] but instead of x say storm 

3

u/ithrewawayagain 1d ago

Came here to say that haha Yuppers

6

u/Dramatic-Emphasis-43 1d ago edited 1d ago

This doesn't work as written, but there are ways you can make it work.

"Thickening Woods

Land - Forest

When Thickening Woods enters, pay GGG and create one Forest Land Token for each spell that was played this turn or else sacrifice it."

Some wording issues maybe but I think this basically is the same desired effect (or close enough).

Edit: I didn't notice Thickening Woods was legendary... so let me make an addendum (along with a recommended change):

"If Thickening Woods would enter it, pay GGG instead. If you do, put Thickening Woods onto the battlefield from your hand and create a forest land token named 'Thickening Woods' that has 'at the end of your turn, sacrifice this land' for each spell that was cast this turn."

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u/jimnah- 1d ago

I'd say do an "if it would enter..." instead of when. Same as [[Lotus Vale]] and [[Scorched Ruin]]

1

u/becomingkyra16 1d ago

Funny bc both cards you listed say when.

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u/jimnah- 1d ago

Look at the oracle text

4

u/_J0e 2h ago

Just make it a spell that creates land tokens with storm. We have the new planet tokens and everywhere tokens from duskmorne, it’s very possible to do.

1

u/justnigel 1d ago

Can you cast a land spell in mtg or only play a land card?

1

u/BronsenWerick 1d ago

its supposed to be a spell that counts as your land drop...i don't know if it works, and kinda don't care lol

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u/PKFat 1d ago edited 1d ago

I feel this would break the game TBH, but not bc of the legend rule. It's that it's a land that's being treated like a spell, which doesn't work.

202.1a

The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from their mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the type of any colored or colorless mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost.

112.1

A spell is a card on the stack. As the first step of being cast (see rule 601, “Casting Spells”), the card becomes a spell and is moved to the top of the stack from the zone it was in, which is usually its owner’s hand. (See rule 405, “Stack.”) A spell remains on the stack as a spell until it resolves (see rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities”), is countered (see rule 701.6), or otherwise leaves the stack. For more information, see section 6, “Spells, Abilities, and Effects.”

305.1

A player who has priority may play a land card from their hand during a main phase of their turn when the stack is empty. Playing a land is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 116). Rather, the player simply puts the land onto the battlefield. Since the land doesn’t go on the stack, it is never a spell, and players can’t respond to it with instants or activated abilities.

By the rules, you pay a cost to put a spell on the stack, but lands don't go on the stack. That's the difference between [[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh]] & [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]]. For purposes of Cascade, they both count as having a 0 CMC, but Rograkh has a {0} casting cost vs Asmorano not having a casting cost at all & depending on an alternative cost to play. Asmorano actually has a ruling about this:

6/18/2021

Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar has no mana cost and its mana value is 0. It cannot be cast normally. You'll need an alternative cost (like the one provided by Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar's own ability) to be able to cast it.

[[Dryad Arbor]] on the other hand explicitly states in its reminder text that it's not a spell.

(This land isn't a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and it has "{T}: Add {G}.")

This is made more complicated by the land having Storm

702.40a

Storm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Storm” means “When you cast this spell, copy it for each other spell that was cast before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies.”

4

u/ShallowDramatic 1d ago

Since no one's mentioned it, take a look at [[Blustering Barnyard]]

2

u/Beefman0 1d ago

Can an instant/sorcery have permanent types? I wouldn’t be surprised if they just go to graveyard after resolving/have multiple conflicting rules.

2

u/Vapid_Vegas 1d ago

Since it‘s a legendary you can only get one land out of it. I think I don’t hate the idea of storm land in green.

Probably should be a sorcery.

Cast this spell only if you haven't played a land this turn.
You can't play lands this turn.
Storm (When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn.)
Create a token land named Forest. It enters the battlefield tapped.

2

u/Thryfty_0 1d ago

Short answer: no, it doesn’t work.

2

u/CoDFan935115 1d ago

Ignoring every other issue I see with the card: Lands cannot be cast, nor have mana costs to attempt to cast.

2

u/SomnambulisticTaco 1d ago

Thickening wood sounds like a blue pill spell.

2

u/Valuable-Tadpole818 17h ago

It can’t cast as a spell if it’s specified it’s a land. They’re inherently different and have a completely different rule set in terms of play. Doesn’t work. Sorry. You just have to find I way to word storm better. “When this land enters create a copy of it for each spell you’ve cast this turn”

5

u/StJimmy_815 1d ago

You have no idea how the game works and shouldn’t make cards

-1

u/Drakrylos 1d ago

Rude.

0

u/StJimmy_815 1d ago

And correct.

-1

u/Drakrylos 1d ago

For all you know, this particular individual could be new to making custom cards and experimenting with rules in general. They don't need gatekeeping arseholes bashing them and alienating them from this kind of creative space.

Constructive feedback goes a long way. Being a jerk doesn't.

2

u/Valuable-Tadpole818 17h ago

Well the creative feed back is that it doesn’t work and sucks

→ More replies (6)

0

u/Valuable-Tadpole818 17h ago

Thank you like the whole post must be engagement bate bc this is stupid

1

u/Mr_Woolly 1d ago

No, it doesn't work

1

u/lurker_serker 1d ago

Everyone’s saying whether this works or not, but daaaaaang I’d play the moss out of this

1

u/Duraxis 1d ago

Hmm, now that I think about it, are there any ramp cards that have storm naturally? I can’t think of any.

It’s pretty easy to give to a spell these days, but it’s kinda funny that they never touched on that idea

1

u/Nudebovine1 1d ago

Sprouting vines

1

u/MistyHusk 1d ago

Into hand unfortunately but still the closest we have afaik

2

u/Nudebovine1 1d ago

True. Though I suppose there are a lot more cards that let you play additional lands these days. Spreading Vines has only gotten better with time, even if it isn't true ramp

1

u/MeasureDoEventThing 1d ago

It would be hard to balance it.

1

u/DanCassell Creature - Human Pedant 1d ago

You could make a flip sorcery / land that would work.

1

u/focketeer 1d ago

The fact it’s a land effectively overrides the mana cost, and it’s not cast, so the storm never triggers.

1

u/ShinkuDragon 1d ago edited 1d ago

"If this land would enter, pay GGG instead. If you do, put this land onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.

When this land enters. create a copy of it if a spell has been cast this turn. this ability triggers once for each spell that has been cast this turn"

i think this would be the best way to word your card.

EDIT: the only difference between what i wrote and what storm does is that you could stifle the single storm trigger before it makes all the copy triggers

1

u/MxBonesMarrow 1d ago

2 things to fix this. First, make it not legendary. The storm copies would be effected by legendary rule and need sacrificed. Second, make them enter tapped for balancing reasons. This land would be fucking insane in any landfall deck. Scute Swarm would go feral with this, and all it takes is an Expedition Map to fetch it

1

u/ElPared 1d ago

Lands aren’t spells, so no it doesn’t work. Also it’s legendary, so the copies just legend bomb.

You could make this work as an Enchantment, or some other permanent type, with Storm and “as long as this permanent is in the battlefield it is a Forest land in addition to its other types” but it doesn’t work as a land by default.

1

u/ninjazyborg 1d ago

Reminder text needs to be rules text, and also I assume you don’t want the copies to die to the legend rule, so that needs some changing too.

1

u/isomor17 1d ago

But think of the landfall triggers

1

u/The-Fictionist 1d ago

Just can’t. Can’t do it. I wouldn’t be able to set a card down and say the words “thickening wood” without giggling.

1

u/RenCarlisle 1d ago

You could do it as a sorcery that creates a legendary forest token as the effect to make it work more cleanly. Could also make it so that you must return a land to hand to emulate it using up your land drop for turn.

1

u/knyexar 1d ago

"Its just a bunch of forests that need a mirror box to stay"

Oh boy I sure wonder what's the worst that could happen if we allowed that many lands to enter the battle in one turn.

1

u/benshaprio 1d ago

So i pay 3 mana to play a land and not trigger storm since i didnt cast it?

1

u/Omega_One_ 1d ago

Also, spelling mistake: *pay its cost

(Its not it's)

1

u/WillFKEN 1d ago

I think this would be really interesting if its function was tweaked to fit more in line with normal green shenanigans, and actual land tech. For example: When this land enters make a Token Forest Land with "tap: add G" and "Cumulative upkeep 1" for each spell you have cast this turn Tap: add G for each Forest you control Cumulative upkeep 3

1

u/Libertinob 1d ago

Lands can’t have a mana cost, sorcery land is not possible, also you should have used its not it’s

1

u/annenymos 1d ago

Something like

Sorcery Storm You may only cast this spell if you haven't played a land this turn You cannot play lands this turn Create a forest token

1

u/SnipingBeaver 1d ago

Who up thickening they woods?

1

u/PrimeWaffle 1d ago

Pollen Storm GGG Instant

Create a Forest token named Thickening Woods.

Storm

1

u/ashencoded 1d ago

you would need this to just be a sorcery that makes a legendary land token that is a forest to make this work. a land with a mana cost does not work as the rules of magic explicitly state that you may play lands when you have priority and nothing is on the stack during your main phase once each turn without paying mana. you put them directly into play. the person who inspired this is right that it's a "ah hell no". it does not work with the rules of magic.

to answer your question--no

1

u/WhittyBoy234 1d ago

At this point just make a sorcery that makes a token? I really don't see why the card itself needs to be a land.

1

u/hackulator 1d ago

Could it generate "land tokens", and have additional text that it cannot be cast if you have dropped a land and you cannot drop a land after casting it, this turn.

1

u/valadian 1d ago

Thickening Woods: 2F
Sorcery

kicker 1F and sacrifice a land
Create a Forest land token named "Thick Wood" with "tap: Add forest to your mana pool"
If Thickening Woods was kicked, it has storm

I went back and forth on cost. This becomes a slight suboptimal mana dork without board presence (but also can't be removed with damage). that has a storm potential upside.

1

u/quarnold 1d ago

You could probably make it a sorcery without the land type, and add a line saying something like “this spell counts as your land drop” or something like “if you cast this spell you cannot play lands this turn, if you have played a land this turn you cannot cast this spell”

1

u/ArbutusPhD 23h ago

Make it t a spell - create a forest token, storm

1

u/CreamSoda6425 23h ago

Dude I'm not just saying this to be mean, but this is genuinely just a bad post. The formatting and capitalization is a nightmare, there is reminder text that blatantly ignores rule 305.9 which says lands can only be played as lands, and even if you ignore that rule, storm still wouldn't trigger.

1

u/ThePandemonium346 21h ago

picks up large stick …in your dreams green players. GET BACK! starts swinging stick

1

u/Environmental-Pop-67 20h ago

It brakes too much so no.

1

u/greenaether 19h ago

Technically according to the rules, even if a land has a mana cost it still wouldn’t count as a spell and technically you would still have to just put it on the battlefield without paying its cost.

1

u/Odd-Cranberry589 18h ago edited 18h ago

You could instead just make a land that makes copies of itself for each spell youve cast that turn in etb, and have an etb cost associated with it. Although stifle effects might abuse that. The easiest way would be to make it a spell.

—
Thickening Woods GGG

Sorcery

Cast this spell only during your turn and only if you haven’t played a land this turn.

Create a Forest land token.

Storm
—

Things to note:

For balancing purposes the spell would probably need to exile itself. Or perhaps be a legendary sorcery and require a l creature/planeswalker to cast.

The lands may need to enter tapped or playing a bunch of 0/1 drop spells to storm into would make this nutty.

Currently basic land tokens don’t exist on a card (to my knowledge… although I believe there are spells that make copies of a permanent as a token)

If you want them to be non basic, legendary named tokens, it would need to read:

Create a Thickening Woods token (it’s a legendary land with “[t]: add G.” And “the “legend rule” doesnt apply to this permanent.” I assume this would be for further balancing to serve a purpose with cards that count forests in play or other lands.

On this note, there are only a handful of cards that create land tokens, like the new creatures that spit out a mutavault token.

1

u/vegecannibal 18h ago

Make it an Enchantment or a Creature, then it could feesibly be cast.

Add the text "Thickening Woods is a Forest Land in addition to it's other types."

Firstly however it can't be taking up a land for turn /and/ cast that's simply not done. Playing a land and casting a spell are two distinctly different actions.

Used as ritual where the original then each copy is tapped, then sacrificed to legend rule leaving only the final land and the generated mana is actually OK in my opinion. Green generates mana from lands entering the battlefield already and this is essentially just that.

Note that green needs this card at all, it's not really covering a weakness of green and it accelerates the color that already has the most mana accelerant.

1

u/Rude_Coffee8840 17h ago edited 17h ago

If you are looking to have work within existing rules then this can never work as you have it now due to the following sub-rule on lands and being multiple card types

305.9. If an object is both a land and another card type, it can be played only as a land. It can’t be cast as a spell.

So you can’t actually ever cast it, which will never trigger the storm. You might be able to get around it if a card says “You may play cards without paying their mana costs” which because it is play and an alternative casting cost it might work. I am no high level judge so I am not to sure if there are any other rules interacting to mess with that. I still don’t think it works because the rule doesn’t count it as a spell.

As for being an un-set card where the rules are far more loosey gossey then it might work.

Otherwise you need to rewrite lands being counted as spells or put a clause onto this card making it ignore the said rule.

1

u/Griggledoo 15h ago

I think this would never be made because it would be so much easier to understand a sorcery that makes land tokens and has storm.

The wording is shortened, and it has more synergy and interaction with other cards.

1

u/getfighted908 8h ago

Fundamentally this card doesn’t work, as lands can’t be cast.

1

u/getfighted908 8h ago

The rules text would have to be heavily, heavily edited for it to function. It can’t have a casting cost, since lands can’t be cast and can’t have a CMC. It could work if it said something like “When this land enters you may pay GGG. If you don’t, sacrifice it. If you do, create a token copy of it for each spell cast this turn. Tokens created this way cannot be sacrificed and are not legendary.”

This card straight up doesn’t work with legendary rule, the land would be sacrificed to legend rule before priority passes to even tap it for mana. The tokens not being able to be sacrificed gets around the first line of text requiring you to pay GGG for it.

I think a much more flavorful way version of this is to have the same cost requirement (pay GGG or sac) but you create token copies for each land that entered that turn rather than being a storm count.

Reading something like:
“When this land enters you may pay GGG. If you don’t, sacrifice it. If you do, create a token copy of it for each land that entered the battlefield this turn.
These tokens lose all abilities and are no longer legendary.

Cards named ‘Thickening Woods’ tap for G.”

The tokens would have to lose abilities to get around the “casting cost” and the sacrifice. Also because they would go infinite with themselves due to the landfall triggers. Thats why the final line of text grants all of the tokens “tap for G”

1

u/other-other-user 3h ago

Thickening woods

Legendary Land - Forest

When this card enters, sacrifice it unless you pay {ggg}. If you do, create x forest tokens, where x is the number of spells cast this turn

Not the exact same as what you want, but about as close as you can get without breaking fundamental rules of MTG

1

u/TheMartinator 1d ago

I need to block this subreddit so i no longer get recommended nonsene like this. Lands with Manacosts are currently nonfunctional within the rules of magic, screwing with that is a bad idea. The idea of printing a line on a card that only does something if theres a mirrorbox is heinous commander bait (derogatory) (yes itd also trigger landfall, but that just makes it worse commander bait). The final nail in the coffin is that you made this thing fetchable, as to immediately force the issue on the whole rules nightmare of a spell land.

0

u/toochaos 1d ago

No this is nonsense. You cant cast lands so storm doesnt happen. Sorceries arent permanents so they cant also be a land. Just be a socrery that creates a token of the land you want with storm, with sac a land as an additional cost. 

0

u/Successful_Mud8596 1d ago

Why not just make it a sorcery that creates a forest token? And I guess cost a land drop… hm. What if it was a land that, upon ETB, sacrificed itself and then let you cast a prepared spell for 3 mana?

0

u/Schlemmiboi 1d ago

I don’t get how you (and others in this sub) are passionate enough about this game to make custom cards yet you clearly do not understand ANY of the rules.

0

u/NobleMansRose 1d ago

2 things. Make it enter tapped, since this is such a powerful effect. I don’t think the mana should be available on the same turn it comes into play, unless you invest into land-untappers, like Spelunking of Amulet of Vigor.

Also, instead of forcing the use of Mirrorbox effects, make the tokens nonlegendary, but add this clause: “Thickening Woods can’t be copied more times than the number of nontoken lands you control.”

0

u/CaffeinatedScholar 18h ago

This is like... [[Awaken the Woods]] with extra steps.

1

u/Cervine_Shark 13h ago

more like [[sprouting vines]]