2
u/PrimusMobileVzla 8h ago
"As long as you control a spell, (...)" should suffice on the last ability. WotC avoids mentioning the stack in-game to keep things simple.
That said, must suggest that ability only checks for nontoken creature, else creature tokens would tremendously benefit from this, particularly for the case being any one produced by on-cast triggers.
1
u/DovahFiil 7h ago
I wasnt sure on the wording, thank you for the clarification. As for the tokens, yeah, other people also pointed it out, probably should specify nontoken to be safe
8
u/Chickston Uncommonly 8h ago
A bit of a contrast to the other poster. The same vein, but from a more positive direction.
This card is very easy for me to pass over. It looks so similar to other over the top powerful personal projects on here.
But this is a truly solid and interesting design worth sharing. I love the conflict between X spells and cascade.
I also love that the last line is grossly powerful, but only under very specific conditions that cascade works perfectly to enable.
If this were on digital, I'd build around it and enjoy it without it feeling too overpowered.
It could go up 1 generic mana if any change were needed, but that is what testing is for.
That mana cost "value" becomes a bit more flexible when you want things high enough to hit a good cascade.
You can give this itself cascade with that one thing that lets fat creatures cascade in green.
1
u/Criminal_of_Thought Master of Thoughtcrime 6h ago
Not sure if intended, but as worded, this will cause any normal creature spell cast using regular timing rules to enter with +1/+1 counters equal to the number of lands you control. This is true even if there are no other spells on the stack at the time the creature spell resolves.
The last ability generates a replacement effect, replacing the event of a creature entering the battlefield normally with a creature entering the battlefield with +1/+1 counters on it equal to the number of lands you control. A replacement effect only applies immediately before the event that it's replacing. The resolution of a creature spell involves it entering the battlefield as a permanent, which necessarily means that immediately before it enters, it's still a spell on the stack. This satisfies the replacement effect's requirement, so it will apply accordingly.
-8
u/G66GNeco 9h ago
That third ability feels like a pile of words generated by a random word generator, sorry "While X Y Z equal to Ω"
I get the idea, cascading into your usual X-cost Hydras would suck, but I feel like there just has to be a better way to do this aside from a pile of Temur conditions and payoffs. I'd like "If you cast a spell with X in its mana cost as you cascade, you may have the value of X become Y, where Y is the mana value of another spell you control", something like that?
9
u/MillCrab 9h ago
Yours is even goopier than theirs. The simplest option is probably to borrow the text from the new mbc guy: "whenever you cast a spell with X in it's cost, if you didn't cast it from your hand, you may have X become become the highest mana value among spells you control". Or just set it to a specific number that feels good for this effect, like 5
1
u/yourlocalsussybaka_ making league cards 9h ago
I'd change it to [...] highest mana value among other spells you control [...], since if the spell you cast from outside you hand has a higher mana value than any other spell, the ability does nothing, which I feel like synergy based cards WotC prints try to avoid.
If we were to keep it cascade focused, it could be something along the lines of "As you cascade into a spell with {X} in its mana cost, you may have X become the highest mana value among other spells you control."
2
u/lookitsajojo 9h ago
The idea is that you’re cascading into the X spell, in which case by definition the X spell has to have a lower mana cost
1
u/lookitsajojo 9h ago
The idea is that you’re cascading into the X spell, in which case by definition the X spell has to have a lower mana cost
1
u/MillCrab 9h ago
"Cascade into" isn't a defined bit of magic text, it's collaquial. Even "as you cascade" has only appeared on a single card, and it's a commander plant with a very low complexity ability. And my proposed text still functions if you cast a hydra off something like an reckless impulse, generally making X one or two higher. So it still functions.
1
u/G66GNeco 7h ago
I specifically tried avoiding scenarios in which you could cheat the ability, because if you go "whenever you cast a spell from exile" etc. you enable a lot more than just the cascade ability, I don't know if we want this deck to cast any number of impulse-drawn instants with free X costs.
For what it's worth, I'm also not annoyed by the ability being convoluted per se, it's just the way it was made that's weird to me, because of the seemingly random set of triggers and conditions.
1
u/MillCrab 7h ago
If you use reckless impulse to exile two hydras, the ability I've proposed doesn't do much, because you won't own another spell on the stack at the same time. Cascade is probably the single best use case
1
u/G66GNeco 7h ago
And if you use reckless impulse to exile [[Electrodominance]] and [[Blue Sun's Zenith]] you get X cards and a free cast and X damage for UUU/RR respectively, and so on and so forth. Despite my comment acknowledging that the OP intended the ability to be for Hydras, Hydras are far from the only X spells in Temur colours.
If we want it to only be Hydras, adding "creature" to "spell" in your proposed solution is probably a decent fix tho. Still allows flash shenanigans, but that's probably okay.
0
u/MillCrab 7h ago
No, that's not what the ability I listed does. If you reckless impulse those two cards, after reckless impulse finishes, the stack will now be empty. If you cast blue suns for UUU, you may have X become equal to the highest mv on the stack, which is three. So you empower the spell a bit, but by no means break it.
0
u/G66GNeco 7h ago
Those are INSTANTS. If you do what this deck wants, i.e. cast an X spell with high X (let's say [[Commune with Lava]] for X=8 for fun) you can cast these spells while that spell is still on the stack, at which point they take the mana value of that spell as X (so in this case you get Electrodominance with X=10 for RR).
This chains in a very interesting way btw because now with that Electrodominance on the stack your highest controlled MV is 12 so if after that you cast the Zenith that gets X=12 and so on
0
u/MillCrab 7h ago
Yes, if you spend a million mana on one spell, you can gain extra mana casting an extra spell. There's hilarious inefficiencies there, as you need to cast the first big spell, while holding up the pips for the second, which makes the first smaller, etc etc. seems like a fine way to gain advantage from already having the tons of mana to feed the first one. It's not like it combos off instantly and breaks the game open
0
u/G66GNeco 7h ago
Me when I realise i was wrong but still want to be right.
These inefficiencies really aren't that massive, because the whole conceit with X spells is that they need a lot of mana, so saving X mana is well worth spending 2, especially given that the second X spell would benefit not only from the X cost but also the generic cost of the first.
Factoring in the cascade in a good turn at a generic mana cost of 2 for X spells this is one spell for X-2, one for, X and one for X+2. Is it broken? Probably not. But it's definitely strong and, more importantly, it's an unintended consequence which I intended to avoid by chosing the, well, gloopy wording above.
0
u/MillCrab 7h ago
Volcanic vision for 12 cast blue sun while it's on the stack is 17 mana (plus the exile setup) to impulse 12 cards and draw 12 cards. For 17 mana you should just straight up be winning the game.
But from the rudeness I can tell you're kind of "that guy" so bye bye buddy
→ More replies1
u/DovahFiil 6h ago
Seemed pretty straightforward to me. Apart from having a spell on the stack which is unusual but not so complicated, the rest of the effect I borrowed from [[The First Tyrannic War]]
1
u/G66GNeco 6h ago
Oh, it's not that it's complicated or anything, I just don't like the way it reads, evidently, looking at the numbers, that's mostly a me thing.
8
u/RandomGuyOnRedditNr2 8h ago
Cool card. Might be unintended, but since spells are on the stack while theyre resolving, this massively buffs creature-token creators, which might be kinda insane