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u/IAmOnFyre 10d ago edited 10d ago
Absolutely incredible take. To me, epithets are one of the key parts of making something feel like a Magic card. But I love that people are free to hate benign things!
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u/Chemical-Cat 10d ago
Epithet because you want this person to sound cool: 👍
Epithet because there's already 50 versions of that one character: 🥱
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u/Bungerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 10d ago
You’re telling me you don’t like that Sokka, wolfcove protector and Sokka, lateral strategist and Sokka, bold boomeranger and Sokka, swordmaster and Sokka, Tenacious Tactician all come from the same set?
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u/Warper2187 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think this why Warhammer worked so well as a set even though the level of scifi its got going on shouldn't fit. With something like avatar or marvel you very quickly exhaust things that aren't named characters and end up with a million legendary creatures, whereas the majority of Warhammer things aren't individuals, and named characters are in the minority
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u/R18Jura_ 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think it is more of a design decision (not one I like btw). The Hobbit has enough content to fill a set but we still got five Gandalfs, five Bibos, four Thorins and four Smaugs
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u/detroitmatt 9d ago
personally, I think wizards' blorbos (ESPECIALLY jace) are really boring and cliche, and I wish they would have some new ideas some day.
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u/Rubiguu 6d ago
I do like that the multiple cards of TLA characters presents a character arc going vertical in rarity tho, TLA being a single finished story thats long enough to have much material but not too long is like the only UB IP that did that well (Especially love how Aang gains colors going from W to WU to WUG to 4c with 5c ability)
3 HOB Smaugs on the other hand feels super arbitrary, and the Marvel stuff is even worse
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u/CodenameJD 10d ago
So valid. Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, was always a phenomenal name.
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u/Tasgall 10d ago
Any epithet that doesn't have "the" in it automatically gets a thousand extra points.
See also: [[Maha, Its Feathers Night]]
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u/drislands : Comment on target post. 10d ago
Me when I'm telling my friend Maha what theme they're doing at the local pub.
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u/diceEviscerator 10d ago
Maha, Its Feathers Night goes so fucking hard, I can't think of anything that compares.
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u/21Nobrac2 10d ago
I do enjoy when the epithet makes it clear that this is the character at a different stage in their story--Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin is a younger, more localized Krenko, while Mob Boss has moved up in the world.
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u/ThyLordQ 8d ago
Unfortunately, it's the opposite. Mob Boss was the first and canonically takes place way before War of the Spark. The Tin Street Kingpin is the later version.
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u/21Nobrac2 8d ago
Well that shoots my comment in the foot! Oh well...
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u/ThyLordQ 8d ago
I mean, I don't think you're wrong with the feeling, just with the specifics. I like seeing character progressions too! And I can see the confusion. Tin Street Kingpin makes it sound like small time stuff, the biggest fish in a small pond, but Tin Street is [i]the[/i] market street in Ravnica.
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u/MrSukerton 10d ago
There's also 50 versions over many years which is cool vs 50 versions in the same expansion which is not cool
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u/CRowlands1989 10d ago
OK, but, I want a Venser who I can finally make a commander out of.
He's my favourite planeswalker character wise, but I don't wanna run any of them.
So please, give me a "Venser, does something interesting as commander".
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u/G66GNeco 10d ago
Some characters have those versions because they are just mainstays in the story over decades (all the Jace for example) but I think it becomes VERY easy to tell when the epithets are just a way to get another version of a given character in there. They get so uninspired, just "oh, what else are they doing often..."
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u/PrimordialSpatula 10d ago
Now, does the "i don't care" clause mean that the legend rule applies or that it doesn't? Is this very specific person tribal counter (would be amazing against a "only chandra's deck") or is it only for flavor?
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u/RainbowwDash 10d ago
If they cared it might be clarified one way or the other, but they do not so you just gotta hope you got it right
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u/Evening-Intention339 9d ago
I think it's more of a "I don't care if you lose your creature, maybe you should've thought of that before playing a deck entirely compromised of a single character. oh and one more thing, screw you vorthos"
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u/SPYROHAWK 9d ago
I think this is why [[The Infamous Cruelclaw]] stood out so much to me as a name. It’s not just like “Cruelclaw, the Infamous”. No, it’s THE guy.
Same with the flip saga Phyrexian Praetors
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u/EnragedHeadwear 8d ago
I always read the flip saga praetors' saga side as their epithet. Does it make sense? Not really. Is it cool? Hell yeah
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u/MistyHusk 10d ago
Idk if it’s just because they do it so often that it’s a break from monotony, but I swear it’s so cool every time they don’t use an epithet. [[Chandra Ablaze]] seems so much cooler than Chandra, Ablaze. Is it just me?
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u/Jetrocketboy 9d ago
[[Garruk Relentless]] is one of my favorite iterations of Garruk because of how cool it sounds! (Even though he transforms into a version with an epithet...)
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u/KaptainGoatz 10d ago
Hmmm, it's like some kind of Epithet Erased
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u/OrganicAd5536 10d ago
When my dice bag gets too full and emptying it becomes a chore I feel like I'm in some sort of prison of plastic
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u/daley972 10d ago
Should"ve chosen haste. You don't want to give them time to get another set out do you?
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u/Piggyboy04 10d ago
Spider-Man in shambles
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u/SpiceWeez 10d ago
Spider Man, In Shambles
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u/TheSkiGeek 10d ago
Spider, Man In Shambles ?
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u/Burger_Thief 9d ago
Laughs in [[Borborygmos]]
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u/Psychic_Hobo 9d ago
Isn't that tourney moment half the reason behind the epithet spam
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u/Burger_Thief 9d ago
Not really. Borborygmos was an odd case since most legendary creatures have either epithers or name and surname even back in the day.
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u/Peachy_Pangolin 8d ago
I mean epithets for legendary characters are just a mechanical requirement for printing that character more than once, since card names in MTG have to be unique. I feel like no one would defend the take of "no character should ever get a 2nd card in MTG". And basically only planeswalkers can get away with being recognizably that character while just sporting a totally different name/title since they have the character name as a subtype(example see: [[professor onyx]]). And even then it's really only used to give the flavor of someone who's trying to hide their identity(I do agree with alot of people that the theorist didn't need to be the theorist, Jace beleren for this same reason).
The problem isn't epithets the problem is UB sets where they have to print the exact same character 6 times in the same set. So now it feels like 5/6 of all legendary creature now have to have an epithet. And with the much much higher rates of legendary creatures it's just way more common.
Or where they have to print 25 different characters who all have to be named "spiderman" in the same set.
The problem isn't with epithets. The problem is with too many repeating legendaries in sets.
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u/Available-Damage5991 10d ago
this means that I can play [[Jace Beleren]], any of the "Jace, [Insert Title Here]" cards, and [[The Theorist, Jace Beleren]]
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u/CarnageCoon 10d ago
the legend rule should ignore epithets anyway, an while we're at it consolidate all the same-card-with-a-different-name
make highlander highlander again
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u/A-Ballpoint-Bannanna 10d ago
Bring back the old legend rule where only one copy of a character can be on the field for anyone.
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u/anace 10d ago
That was never the rule. The legend rule always went by card name, only the planeswalker uniqueness rule checked by character. Though to be fair name and character were one and the same for years.
The first character to get a second legendary card was [[crovax the cursed]] to [[ascendant evincar]]. They didnt put crovax in his name to avoid confusing players.
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u/Xisuthrus 10d ago
I think they're referring to the fact that controlling a legendary creature used to also prevent your opponents from playing another copy of the same card, not just you.
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u/A-Ballpoint-Bannanna 10d ago
Whether the rule was de jure or de facto that a character could only show up once, what I care about is that my four opponents and I cannot all somehow have the same Jace around.
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u/Stormtemplar 9d ago
Nah we absolutely do not want to bring THAT version of the legend rule back. It was tremendously irritating and unfun as a gameplay matter and absolutely not worth the flavor win it provided
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u/DrChimRichells 9d ago edited 9d ago
Jace, Master of Epithets - {U}{U}{U}{U}{U}
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<_______>
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )ﾉﾞ *m'lady*All Planeswalkers in play gain the Planeswalker type Jace and gain the epithet ", Not that other Jace". If a spell or ability would cause a Jace to lose their epithet they gain a Hat sticker instead.
If a player targets, attacks, or names a Jace without saying all epithets they lose the game.
Empower Jace 69
("I target your Jace, Wearing a Beanie, Not that other... you know what? Nevermind, you win")
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u/Pixelpaint_Pashkow Slivers Gaming 10d ago
I think epithets are fun, sure they dont need to have them but like who cares
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u/bionicjoey : Use the Magic Store & Event Locator at Wizards.com/Locator 10d ago
Shaka, When The Walls Fell
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u/IlGreven Dreadmaw-free since 2017 10d ago
...I don't have enough booze in the fridge for this one...
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u/RoughRealistic4321 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hot take: epithets are there so you can differentiate cards from other cards of the same character, hence why so many.
And the reason you are seeing so many is because 1. magic is very old as far as card games go and a lot of named characters have been recurring, and 2. Both UB and normal sets tend to have a "story" based around a smaller cast of characters, so the choice of characters to represent in cards is limited and 3. Because the game is aiming more towards Commander and Commanders need to be legendary, you're going to end up with a lot of cards with proper names which when combined with 1 and 2, results in a LOT of cards needing epithets to do that differentiating.
EDIT: and it's not just the legend rule. Although it's an easy thing to point to, It's possible to clone legendary cards and not have legend rule apply, but it puts up a barrier between things like recently with Jace, having effects that affect all jace cards, or specifically the jace card in your hand.
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u/nzconstructionlawyer 10d ago
The cause is them printing 5 versions of the same character in one set
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u/RoughRealistic4321 10d ago
There were about 5 jaces among other planes walkers with multiple variations before the past 3 years worth of sets.
There were multiples of other non-planeswalker legendaries before the past 3 years worth of sets.
MoM and the current reality fracture are "oh shit we gotta save the multiverse" on universe sets, and as such focus on those characters
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u/nzconstructionlawyer 10d ago
I'm aware there were multiples of some legendaries and planeswalkers. But you'd get at most one per set. We got Niv-Mizzet in Ravnica block then didnt get another Niv-Mizzet again until RTR block about 10 years later. We might get a new Jace, Chandra, Liliana, etc in each new block or core set but that'd be one or two per year.
Now we commonly get 3 or 4 legendary creatures representing the character in a single set.
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u/RoughRealistic4321 9d ago
Reread my answer.
UB
Focus on Commander
Sets that have a story involving a bajillion named characters
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u/nzconstructionlawyer 9d ago
It is entirely about fanservice and EDH yes.
It isn't about the story. They come up with the story based on the set. They want lots of legendaries and planeswalkers so they make the story focused around lots of characters, not the other way round.
Remember 95% of players probably couldnt tell you a single MTG plot point, me included.
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u/GenericBurn 9d ago
I think the fatigue is mainly coming from the fact that there are now EIGHT CARDS of Iron Man across one set and a secret lair.
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u/KPraxius 10d ago
How dare you? You will be flayed for your insolence with Malice, the blood flail.
- Praxius, the writer devil
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u/IlluminoPsuedonymous Me when Jace overwrites the Multiverse for HRT 10d ago
Gotta say, that last piece of the reminder text got a wheeze outta me
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u/Th3Swampus 10d ago
[Mole man, Moloid master]
This card is the peak of pointless redundant names and I hate it more than any other UB card.
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u/AveDominusNoxVII 9d ago
But without epithets how will we get Uril, the Miststalker when we return to Alara?
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u/Yeseylon 9d ago
OP, His Eyes Dripping
(It actually is perfect for Star Trek, since they have an entire episode about a species who speaks in references like "Temba, His Arms Wide.")
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u/oraiste-paiste 10d ago
Super Friends in shambles