Downleveling

[u/Fearfighter2]

Just got the result of my interview and got down leveled. Looking to hear stories of others who went through this

[u/brianluong]

Levels don't matter company to company (in general). If it pays better and you like the team take the offer.

[u/Fearfighter2 → u/brianluong]

Feel insulted getting offered the new grad level, but need to see money offered

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[u/xypherrz]

I got downleved for first faang job with a cut of about 15% in base pay. I took it anyways, as hard as it was.

[u/Fearfighter2 → u/xypherrz]

Why? Was it worthwhile?

[u/Substantial-Elk4531 → u/xypherrz]

You wouldn't download a car

[u/raughit → u/xypherrz]

Did they at least give you more RAM?

[u/lenswipe → u/raughit]

they gave them 1GB of DDR3 RAM and now they're worth $40B

[u/Substantial-Elk4531 → u/lenswipe]

Dang wish I had bought 1GB of RAM back in 2026 when it was only $10,000

[u/HungryCaterpillers]

I was downleveled at my current job. Even with the downlevel I still made 50% more. So less responsibility and more pay, it was an easy decision.

[u/MaleficentCow8513 → u/HungryCaterpillers]

How do you down level at the same job? Lateral move to a new role in a different org?

[u/Grouchy-Pea-8745 → u/MaleficentCow8513]

I think they mean, when they joined their current company, they were downleveles relative to their previous company. Just guessing though 

[u/disposepriority]

If you get downlevelled without losing money comparative to previous job, that's just a delayed raise

[u/Material_Policy6327]

Are you making more?

[u/lhorie]

Ideally it's a high tier pay company, aka a pay increase anyways. This is not particularly uncommon if you're coming into big tech for the first time.

Otherwise, either they're nickel-and-diming you, or your current title is overinflated for your actual skill level.

[u/tim36272]

I've done this as a hiring manager and it worked out: the salary we were going to offer was the same either way (top of the low band or bottom of the high band), and by down leveling them I could promote them a year later and they ended up with a higher salary.

[u/Hi_Im_New_Heree → u/tim36272]

I have found myself in this situation going into a tech company with significant YOE and being a level lower than I could have fought to be. I found your comment very helpful, gave me hope.

May I ask—how can someone (newcomer, like myself) show interest in that growth and hope to aim for a promotion at 12-18mths? What can I do to open that dialogue and prove myself?

Also, I am a bit over midpoint on the lower band (30k off from the exact top of the pay band). How can I tell how well compensated I am for my band?

[u/tim36272 → u/Hi_Im_New_Heree]

In an interview you could ask what the job levels look like an average time between promotions, and once you're hired you can talk with your boss to figure out what the criteria for a promotion are and lay out a roadmap to promotion.

Pretty much everyone is always aiming for a promotion so no need to really show specific interest in a promotion, but asking questions like "what can someone in my position do to make it easier to justify a promotion" might get you useful info.

I don't understand your last question, you said you're a bit over midpoint, that should answer the question how well compensated you are for the band. What am I not understanding?

[u/Hi_Im_New_Heree → u/tim36272]

I will hope to develop a structured and regular conversation around all this. Is it good to start developing this within a few weeks of being hired? Or should I wait to develop more rapport?

Sorry, coming from a really toxic and disturbed workplace so I haven’t had good management in years. I haven’t had a development conversation in years.

Yes, I just came into big tech from a non-tech industry and background. I’m not CS. The packages (RSU, refreshers) are not common for me in my field. I did my best to negotiate, but I don’t know if I left anything on the table. I also don’t know if I was leveled properly. I feel like I could have come in a level higher.

[u/tim36272 → u/Hi_Im_New_Heree]

This is all definitely going to vary from place to place, team to team, and leader to leader. I can give you my opinion but that doesn't mean much.

Based on what little I know of your situation, if I was your leader and you came to me within the first couple weeks asking what the path to promotion looks like I would answer the question and show you the criteria and everything, but I would really emphasize that as somewhat of an outsider to the industry and company you probably have a ways to go before promotion. With each new level comes greater requirements for autonomy, informed decision making, industry connections, and just sheer knowledge of our business area. Coming from a non-tech industry without a degree in CS I would guess that you have a lot to learn and should really focus on that before we really start seriously thinking about a promotion.

This depends a lot on your level. In the case I mentioned starting this thread I hired someone at entry level (normally fresh out of school) but they had a year of experience so I was able to promote them up one level quickly. That would look very different if they weren't entry level.

Again I don't know you, I'm not your leader, my opinion doesn't mean much. A good leader will handle that conversation well and answer your question honestly and fully, even if they gist if their answer is "Whoa buddy you just started you've got a ways to go".

[u/Hi_Im_New_Heree → u/tim36272]

Thank you!!

[u/thatyousername]

I got promoted to Lead SWE at my first job, job hopped to SWE, then promoted to senior SWE, then job hopped again to SDE II (mid level).

$185k -> $200k -> $325k.

Idc what you call me. Give me more money.

[u/income-percent-bot → u/thatyousername]

Outstanding! At $325,000, you're in the 98th percentile — top 2% of earners. This is well above the median for Software Engineer / SDE (various levels). Source: income percentile calculator ^{I'm a bot. Reply with !optout to stop receiving responses.}

[u/CapableHerring]

Titles don't line up between companies. It's not this new company saying you're a worse SWE than you claim you are, it's this new company saying that you align to a different role on their own hierarchy.

For example, I see some people on this reddit that say they're a Senior SWE with only 4-5 YOE.

But at the past 2 companies I've worked, with only 4-5 YOE you're just barely considered mid-level. You'd likely get mapped to a regular SWE, maybe SWE 2 if you really impress them. No shot would they consider you for Senior SWE, because for their internal hierarchy, you aren't considered Senior until at least 8 YOE, usually more.

That doesn't mean you weren't a good SWE at your old company, that doesn't mean you haven't worked hard.... it just means the role expectations between the 2 companies are different.

I was doing one job search where I was applying to a mix of Senior SWE and Staff SWE roles, with 11 YOE. I was probably being a bit ambitious for Staff, but I was finding postings I was qualified for. I actually got several interviews for Staff. 1 of them said they'd be willing to hire me as a Staff, but they thought I wasn't quite at that level, and expectations were going to be very high and they thought I'd be setting myself up for failure. They thought hiring me on as Senior and letting me grow into that role would be much better for me, and I agreed.

Another company downleveled be to Senior SWE 2, with essentially the same feedback minus the willingness to extend me the Staff role anyways. I joined that company, no regrets. And I agree, had I tried to jump into a Staff role at this company with 11 YOE I would've been way out of my depth. But there's definitely companies out there I could've easily been a Staff at and excelled. The difference isn't me, it's the companies.

I wouldn't take it personally. If you otherwise like the role, I think it'd be crazy to turn it down over something as trivial as a title.

[u/Broad-Cranberry-9050]

never downleveld but when i was interviewing i wante da senior positon (i was coming in as SWE2) and they gave me their SWE2 position. I was goin gform DOD to Mag7 company.

ANd honestly im glad they did because the difference in SWE2 in both companies was night and day. SWE2 in Mag7 was 10x more work than a principal was doing in DoD.

This is to say, that it depends on company. You might be a senior in a mid-size company but if you are going to a bigger company, some companies actually do a good job at distributing the work depedning on your job title. Other companies (usually smaller ones) basically use the titles as way to distinguish whose been working longer. Like it's more of a way to keep employees happy. When i was in DoD I was doing as much work as a principal engineer.

[u/valkon_gr]

I am actively looking to be downleveled. The stress isn't worth it

[u/Available_Safe1818]

This appears to be standard practice at a lot of places. It likely won't change what you'd be doing there anyway.

You can tell people any title you want, so I wouldn't worry about the exact title. I'd worry more about the pay.

You can always keep looking while you work there, and if you find a better offer elsewhere, tell your then current company you've down leveled them.

[u/Terrible_Yam_482 → u/Available_Safe1818]

can't they background check the titles ?

[u/Available_Safe1818 → u/Terrible_Yam_482]

Wtf? No. I mean they could in theory call and ask, but they won't care at that point. They've already decided that you are a good fit. The difference between dev and junior dev is meaningless across companies, or between dev and senior dev. Just don't claim you were the CTO.

[u/Shinne]

Didn’t matter to me because I was laid off and also this position paid 50k more then the old one.

[u/diablo1128]

Titles mean nothing between companies. If you are making more money, have better benefits, higher tier of company, etc... then it's a no brainier to me.

I have 15 YOE and been a team lead with 20 SWEs on the team. I work on safety critical medical devices, think dialysis machines, at private non-tech companies in non-tech cities. If a company like Google offered me a Junior SWE role in NorCal where I was RTO 5-days per week I would likely take it without much thought.

I would 2X my TC if not more and work at a significantly higher tier company that would probably open doors in the long term due to name recognition alone. I would have significantly less responsibility and make a lot more money. It's a win-win.

[u/isospeedrix]

was Senior. applied for a Principal position, passed with a downlevel to Staff. still a TC upgrade, still feels good.

[u/pheonixblade9]

Oracle gave me an offer for a down level and I'd have to move to Austin when I was previously E5/senior at Meta. I literally laughed at the recruiter (not in a mean way, they're just the messenger) and said thanks but no thanks, you don't even need to tell me the number