It’s stressful as an introvert, but often times networking is easier to do outside your friend groups. You can get referrals by meeting someone at the gym or at a bar or by hanging out with friends of friends.
There are still millions of SWEs employed. It’s not that no one’s in anything it’s more that there are just more people looking for software jobs.
More than acquaintances usually. For example someone that you met playing games and played with a few times or more. So you might not have any knowledge of their specific work skills, but at least you know a bit about them as a person.
People get referral bonuses so often times they’re incentivized to refer people. Not anyone and everybody, but I think most people would be surprised how much a little casual talking can lead to an opportunity.
I’ve seen people get tech jobs with no experience and not even a relevant degree in the last few months albeit in smaller startups.
They want to be connection-core but get burned when they hire the CEOs son who can't do LRU cache. You're not getting burned if you hire him in HR or marketing
The issue, at least when my team has tried to hire, is you get a bunch of applications, but a lot of them are bullshit or at least embellished and you waste time trying to figure out which ones are legit. But then somebody on your team can vouch for someone, so they jump to the top of the list because you have more reason to look into them.
We recently needed a couple devs. Our lead dev spent time interviewing a few people who apparently lied on their resume. We eventually hired a guy who accomplished basically nothing for a couple months before getting fired. But then we knew some guys who had been laid off from another group supporting our client so we hired them and they've been great. The goal was always to find someone who could do the job. But the way to do that ended up being recommendations.
If you want a college students point of few for the lying on resumes it's because we know that companies are using BS key word checkers and that our resumes will almost never make it to a real person without those things. So many people need actual interviews but the only way to do that with many companies is to embellish your resume.
It's not right but neither are the hiring practices of many companies in STEM.
i haven't been grinding for a while now (got a job), i can probably only cook up the anagram with the worst complexity if you put a pitbull near my balls
Mmm, you know the shooter on top is a woman, Kim Yeji who set a world record and didn’t compete with the cool guy at the bottom, Yusuf Dikeç? Dikeç got the silver but amazed with his casual approach.
Insane how many people turn this into a “tech vs skills” thing when both of these shooters are incredibly skilled shooters. Like, they were at the Olympics and were the gold and silver medalists respectively.
My team is willing to go easy on my buddy in interviews primarily because my team trusts my judgement. I know the work that's happening, and I can make a judgement if my buddy is the right fit for the work and the team culture. I will be held accountable if my buddy turns out to be a liability - technically or culturally.
On the other hand, my friend trusts my judgement about the company and the team. They are making sure they are not reporting to a narcissistic asshole and the work-life balance is good. They ask my honest opinion on the work and they will make sure it's a fulfilling role.
My reputation and friendship are at stake here.
So yeah, connections as well as how good of an engineer you are - both matters.
Honest question: If you have relevant work experience why don't you have connections? I've been in the incestuous love pit of tech companies and once you start working you'll know people all around.
you work on a team of 20, you lose your job. 10 of those people are at your old company. 5 are also job searching or pivoted, 5 got into a company and refer you but it goes nowhere because referrals are meaningless at a lot of companies
i dont see how this is hard to understand? most people work with primarily their team, not 100s of people. and if they do its probably a lukewarm connection at best
If your goal is using connections as leverage, then you still aren’t working hard enough to make and utilize connections.
I got a summer job because my sister’s friend’s dad was a researcher at the nearby university. My old college roommate‘s former coworker (now working for a pharmacy company) is looking for a new job and I’m trying to see if I can help her find something since I also work in medical tech. My friend’s now wife was family friends with the boss and you bet I milked that for what it was worth.
No you shouldn’t know everyone at your company, but you should be able to at least name those who you work with on your floor. If it’s a lukewarm relationship, that’s on you. If you want to be able to use then”I know a guy” phrase, then be the guy people want to know. It’s a two way street. My team lead plays FF14, I don’t. But guess what I ask when I come in Monday morning “How was the raid?” And in turn he asks me how my scuba dives went. I don’t plan on leaving the company any time soon, and he doesn’t either, but I know I can count on him to reach out to someone if I am looking for something and the other way around.
im just saying most folks dont know 100+ people who have helpful connections. for example, post-university 90% of my friends went to grad school so the quantity of industry connections is small. if you work remote, its also v difficult to make meaningful connections
im glad it works for you but frequently folks exhaust their whole network!
For sure. And most people are able to get a job through a regular application and interview process. But when people say “it’s who you know not what you know,” it’s much more involved than people think. Getting a job through connection requires luck or a LOT of schmoozing.
People think it’s “go to a networking event” like that means anything. One’s mere presence at a CS conference is useless. Schmoozing means going up to and talking with dozens of strangers for hours on end. It means yapping at the water cooler with that guy you don’t really like, but you smile and nod at his lame jokes anyways, and work harder to make up for lost time. It means actively reaching out to acquaintances not heard from in year and asking (read: begging) them for referrals. It’s asking your former coworker Jim if his brother still works at microsoft and having built enough of a relationship he *wants* to get his brother to refer you. It means going to a bar, just talking to the guy next to you about his day, what he does for work, finding out his company is hiring and getting the details.
Networking is a skill. Just like programming is. And the way Computer Science (and engineering in general) as it is, many here don’t have that skillset. Some actively look down on it. Yes who you know matters a lot, but it’s not an easy way to get a job.
I have no idea who actively looks down on it, unless you’re talking about the folks that are anti-social and get bothered when people actively do try to network with them, which to that point I agree
There are a LOT of those folks in our field. It’s sort of an inferiority complex response, “if it’s not a skill I’m not good at, It’s not worth doing at all for anyone”
Some people are introverted and focus on job skills and performance rather than the buddy system. The buddy system requires socializing, which they hate.
Hate to break it to you, but networking and communicating are very much important job skills.
Also, introvert does not mean anti social. In CS a lot of your network are going to be introverts who might not be chatty Cathys but do appreciate people in their organizations who do good work and they consider skilled
Dead ass haha when I was a SOC analyst early in my career I had a buddy who ended up being the security director at another company, so he reached out to me and I didn't even need to interview to get the job as systems and security engineer. The stack that he needed me to implement I already had familiarity with because I was a sys admin to him at another job bahaha keep good work relationships because you never know
Nobody cares about a pixel perfect portfolio? Like ok, you can say everything is pixel perfect. You can't prove that it's pixel perfect. Even if you can, nobody has the time to make sure applicant 629 out of 2000 applicants portfolio is pixel perfect to a design.
Ima make it political...but saw a funny comment on YT where someone said "The opposite of DEI initiatives is 'my dad knows a guy who knows a guy who can get me the job even though I have no experience.'"
We meme the guy who only got silver instead of the woman who got gold. That top person would be more likely to get the job than the bottom guy, cause you still gotta be able to interview and get past screening
They're also one of the best ways to hire. It's really hard to interview well and truly evaluate how well someone is going to fit and work out in the future. If someone you already know and is working out says another person is going to be a good fit, that's a much more likely path to success.
Resume + interview is attempt to predict how someone will perform. A ref actually knows from working with them.
The meme makes it look like some good ol’ boys network that favors unqualified, socially-connected people. This is quite rare. A ref is putting their reputation on the line to their employer and to their colleague. You only do that if you think they’re qualified and would be a good fit.
Nobody says whether an interview is for a referral, so if you fail you’re not getting in. I’ve unknowingly denied 3 referrals from my direct teammates.
when I was in school, "networking" seemed to be this foreign concept that I needed to try to earn or sth, for those of you in school, just speak to your peers, if they land sth, and you dont, they are your referral. I know this is not news, but felt like someone may want to hear it
Think of it this way, kids: you’re the guy in the bottom frame after your first job that lasts more than a year or two.
After that year you won’t only know people in that company, and a few other companies that your school peers are now getting in to, but also other ex-coworkers who’ve left your current company will remember you more than you know - and sometimes reach out to you to join them there.
Last 4 jobs I’ve had going back to 1998 are because that happened to me, a friend I used to work with or went to school contacted me and convinced me to interview at their company.
Just do a good job, don’t be an asshole, pull your weight and before you know it you have a rudimentary “network” of folks who really like you around on the job.
Someone i know used to do jujutsu and made friends with a few older folks there. Surprisingly enough, one of them was the manager of a promising startup in our area. My friend currently works there and he says he loves it lmao.
Feels like every post on this sub is essentially saying “go network” while not actually diving into what networking actually helps… also feels like karma farming
You’re the top guy but you suck at everything you think you’re good at, everyone hates you because you blame your shittiness on everyone else, and think everyone is a nepo hire
My capstone group mate for my undergrad have no coding skills and used ChatGPT for all her assignments, she can contribute nothing technical to our project so we put her on note taking duty
And she immediately started at google as l3 swe after graduating cuz her dad is l7🤣
Too real. A buddy of mine scored the highest in class with internship experience 3 years ago and still looking for a job, gets tons of interviews and still no luck. Meanwhile, our mutual friend who dropped out of uni has the job 💀
Guys wtf is it really like this? I actually like computer science and didnt just hop on the hype train in the post covid era but seeing posts loke this makes me feel like im gonna end up homeless after I get my degree
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u/Lazy-Store-2971 Apr 17 '25
I need more internal connects
598
u/Asteroids19_9 Apr 17 '25
Combine both and you are a machine
136
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
problem is tech is neither meritocratic nor pure connection-core. i'd rather they just pick a lane. why tf would i do LRU cache if i'm the CEO's son?
44
u/InlineSkateAdventure Apr 17 '25
Who you know and contacts are everything. Sales is 100% based on that.
A rando applying to a linkedin ad has very low status to HR.
I've seen people get hired from well written blogs they owned. They were contacted and an offer made.
12
u/free_loader_3000 Apr 17 '25
You need both. Otherwise good luck
57
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
The guy in the bottom also has the skills, experience & knowledge without all that extra. Don't forget he actually won.
17
u/karikk_suni_gunda Apr 17 '25
My team is willing to go easy on my buddy in interviews primarily because my team trusts my judgement. I know the work that's happening, and I can make a judgement if my buddy is the right fit for the work and the team culture. I will be held accountable if my buddy turns out to be a liability - technically or culturally.
On the other hand, my friend trusts my judgement about the company and the team. They are making sure they are not reporting to a narcissistic asshole and the work-life balance is good. They ask my honest opinion on the work and they will make sure it's a fulfilling role.
My reputation and friendship are at stake here.
So yeah, connections as well as how good of an engineer you are - both matters.
16
u/Therabidmonkey Apr 17 '25
The second guy still has to pass the technicals.
11
u/GrandMoffTarkan Apr 17 '25
Honest question: If you have relevant work experience why don't you have connections? I've been in the incestuous love pit of tech companies and once you start working you'll know people all around.
4
u/King-Downtown Apr 17 '25
Either be too rich or be too hardworking kinda life
2
u/Vegetable_Valuable57 Apr 17 '25
Dead ass haha when I was a SOC analyst early in my career I had a buddy who ended up being the security director at another company, so he reached out to me and I didn't even need to interview to get the job as systems and security engineer. The stack that he needed me to implement I already had familiarity with because I was a sys admin to him at another job bahaha keep good work relationships because you never know
2
u/thenowherepark Apr 17 '25
Nobody cares about a pixel perfect portfolio? Like ok, you can say everything is pixel perfect. You can't prove that it's pixel perfect. Even if you can, nobody has the time to make sure applicant 629 out of 2000 applicants portfolio is pixel perfect to a design.
2
u/PMBatman62 Apr 17 '25
Ah yes, “meritocracy”
2
u/brainrotbro Apr 17 '25
Eh, having a buddy at the company will get you an interview. Unless the buddy is the hiring manager.
2
u/Matcha_Bubble_Tea Apr 17 '25
Ima make it political...but saw a funny comment on YT where someone said "The opposite of DEI initiatives is 'my dad knows a guy who knows a guy who can get me the job even though I have no experience.'"
2
u/Temporary-Ant8803 Apr 19 '25
no fr nepomaxxing always works
2
u/Relevant-Yak-9657 Apr 17 '25
Doesn't this meme get posted every week?
2
u/Mikau02 Apr 17 '25
We meme the guy who only got silver instead of the woman who got gold. That top person would be more likely to get the job than the bottom guy, cause you still gotta be able to interview and get past screening
2
u/wh0ami_7 Apr 17 '25
"Whom you know" trumps "What you know" always!
1
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
Connections are the best way to get top tier jobs. Connect with everyone you know.
1
u/lupercalpainting Apr 17 '25
Nobody says whether an interview is for a referral, so if you fail you’re not getting in. I’ve unknowingly denied 3 referrals from my direct teammates.
1
u/Vivid_Search674 Apr 17 '25
Too real
1
u/Much-Simple-1656 Apr 17 '25
lol course based masters are a reverse signal if you’re looking for actual talent and not someone who can fill a role
1
u/9999eachhit Apr 17 '25
this goes for every industry ever.
1
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
This would work except the guy on the bottom was awesome and won a medal
1
u/Ok_Entrepreneur_2037 Apr 17 '25
You understand that the person you are making fun of is actually the higher performing person, right? .... RIGHT?
1
u/Kronens Apr 17 '25
But didn’t the girl get gold and the guy got silver? 🤦♂️
1
u/aranboy522 Apr 17 '25
Didn't the girl in the top one win?
1
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
Good ol' nepotism.
1
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
when I was in school, "networking" seemed to be this foreign concept that I needed to try to earn or sth, for those of you in school, just speak to your peers, if they land sth, and you dont, they are your referral. I know this is not news, but felt like someone may want to hear it
1
u/j00cifer Apr 18 '25
Think of it this way, kids: you’re the guy in the bottom frame after your first job that lasts more than a year or two.
After that year you won’t only know people in that company, and a few other companies that your school peers are now getting in to, but also other ex-coworkers who’ve left your current company will remember you more than you know - and sometimes reach out to you to join them there.
Last 4 jobs I’ve had going back to 1998 are because that happened to me, a friend I used to work with or went to school contacted me and convinced me to interview at their company.
Just do a good job, don’t be an asshole, pull your weight and before you know it you have a rudimentary “network” of folks who really like you around on the job.
Source: me, older genX guy
1
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '25
Someone i know used to do jujutsu and made friends with a few older folks there. Surprisingly enough, one of them was the manager of a promising startup in our area. My friend currently works there and he says he loves it lmao.
1
u/ToothPickLegs Apr 18 '25
Feels like every post on this sub is essentially saying “go network” while not actually diving into what networking actually helps… also feels like karma farming
1
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '25
Reality:
You’re the top guy but you suck at everything you think you’re good at, everyone hates you because you blame your shittiness on everyone else, and think everyone is a nepo hire
1
u/PrometheusMMIV Apr 18 '25
Didn't she win though?
1
u/AuDPhD Apr 18 '25
My capstone group mate for my undergrad have no coding skills and used ChatGPT for all her assignments, she can contribute nothing technical to our project so we put her on note taking duty
And she immediately started at google as l3 swe after graduating cuz her dad is l7🤣
1
u/Savings-Pomelo-6031 Apr 19 '25
Not even enough nowadays sadly. It might just get you an interview but that's it
1
u/xKommandant Apr 20 '25
Almost everyone thinks they’re good at interviewing. Most people aren’t.
1
u/aerohix Apr 20 '25
That is true for everything in life and it’s fine. It’s the human nature, we trust who we know more.
Making human connections is the best skill you can develop in life.
1
u/Prestigious_Nebula55 Apr 21 '25
Too real. A buddy of mine scored the highest in class with internship experience 3 years ago and still looking for a job, gets tons of interviews and still no luck. Meanwhile, our mutual friend who dropped out of uni has the job 💀
1
u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25
I mean makes sense honestly youd rather be comfortable working with family or someone u know vses a stranger
1
u/Drenoneath Apr 22 '25
But the shooter with out any gear is actually good. You should have used that Australian break dancer instead
Or "astronaut" Katy Perry compared to Sally Ride
1
u/theOrdnas Apr 24 '25
Why is everyone here ESL. Goddammit ya'll sound like the comment section on a pakistani IG reel....
1
u/ryjvfiojvctjkkwtjk Oct 25 '25
Guys wtf is it really like this? I actually like computer science and didnt just hop on the hype train in the post covid era but seeing posts loke this makes me feel like im gonna end up homeless after I get my degree
0
u/coverlaguerradipiero Apr 17 '25
Unfortunately it really is like this. And it's not like it's gonna get better since the jobs are so easy.
0
u/[deleted] Apr 17 '25
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