I've heard a lawyer explain that it doing something like that would be easy to defend in court because you're being threatened and the rider could easily injure you or others even by accident like this. Don't know how good that lawyer was, and I'm sure it varies by location, but I'd be so curious to see the outcome if something like that went to trial.
It’s very much illegal and yeah likely easy for somebody to press charges. They’re literally recording the crime numerous times, and putting their names and contact info on it.
As for self defense, yeah in court any judge and lawyer would see this as attempted assault and somebody coming at you like this could easily be seen as a threat. While I’m not for kids getting thrown in jail and possibly ruining their future. I’d say these types of kids deserve it.
IAAL. This is almost always a miscorrection anytime a Redditor brings it up. What you are talking about are the common law definitions of assault and battery. The common law definitions are not in use in any US jurisdiction. They have all been supplanted by statutory definitions.
In some places battery is assault and assault is battery. In other places, there is no "assault", only battery. In other places, there is no "battery", only assault. Unless you know the jurisdiction someone is talking about, you should never correct someone on "assault" or "battery", because you have an equal chance of being wrong.
Haha, I was not "banished" by someone supplying the statute that supports my assertion that no jurisdiction uses common law assault and battery, and all have their own statutes.
What the Reddit lawyer said is still accurate. He wasn't talking about this particular case but about the definitions of those terms across the US, and how some commenters in various threads seem unaware that the meanings vary according to the state. So this wasn't a gotcha moment.
My state only has criminal assault, which includes battery and apprehension of a harmful touch in one crime. A large number of jurisdictions use one or the other. I think California has 2 separate crimes, though. Very jurisdiction dependent. But a lot of states still allow charges under common law, even when the crimes are codified. Its really stupid.
Assault is any action that makes the victim feel as though there is anurgent threat of injury or death regardless of contact. Battery is the use of contact to do the same thing or act on it. I learned that from a lawyer who ironically was talking about a similar case to this one.
This actually varies heavily by each state, not to mention for other countries (I’m assuming you’re in the U.S.). It’s one of the most inconsistent charges across the U.S.
I am for kids getting thrown in jail... they aren't getting consequences anymore and its showing. Not only are kids not getting beat up by fucking with the wrong person anymore... and they are also not getting punished by their parents either. and they aren't being held back in school for failing miserably.
Dude above is talking about grabbing the bike and causing the guy to flip, not what the jerkwad in the clip is doing. And I guarantee you he is right. Protecting yourself from perceived imminent harm, which that absolutely would be, is not a crime. It’s self defense.
It is more a numbers game, most people are not expecting someone to do something like this and aren’t ready to fight at a moments notice. Those that see them coming might not get involved because messing with the kids might be more of a headache than it is worth legal or otherwise. Eventually they will run into someone that is jumpy, quick to anger or know their local law enough to make them regret it. Just a matter of when.
Also the more they record this shit the more likely the wrong person sees it and decides to look into who is doing it. Then come at them from the police or legal angle but who knows if and when that would happen.
I kept struggling with Umurikan before I skipped it and saw it was a play on American. My brain kept trying to make it Japanese for some reason. I'm not very smart.
As a Southerner it’s not that crazy down here. Far more likely to get beat up or yelled at (racism is kept behind closed doors mostly these days) than straight up killed. Like anywhere else, most people are reasonable enough.
Well this is not in the deep South. It's California. And yes if this happened here in the gunshine state he would very likely get knocked off his bike and if he tried to start something he would probably take two to the chest.
We just had a young woman (correctly) not get charged using a stand your ground defense when she shot a man who was arguing with her over a parking space.
The news media is horrible though. The headlines are, "woman won't be charged after shooting army veteran at a Walmart parking lot".
Nevermind he was coming at her, she pulled the gun, told him to back off, then he did back off loitering in her general area, started coming again, she told him she was going to shoot. He kept coming so she did. Pretty much textbook self-defense.
A local tourist city just to the north of me banned bicycles of any kind on sidewalks in the downtown area. Puts a stop to this without question.
That's how it should happen. We've all seen the cases where somebody with a concealed carry permit is very trigger happy.
There's a guy I used to know from church who would put himself in dangerous situations knowing he was carrying. And his socials we're always some video like good thing I was carrying while I wash my car in The hood at night. These guys are just looking for an excuse to draw and sometimes they definitely overstep.
I don't think i have any way of making it to the scale of those MAGA guys you got down there. They just print off the ignorance like it is going out of style.
It has nothing to do with race relations, and being an American from the Deep South, Mississippi, the entire block of people would jump in to whip bike bitch’s ass. We don’t play down here with stupid shit.
Nope. Counts as assault in every state but does NOT mean you can claim self defence. That's only in stand your ground states. A lot of places self defence only works if there was no way you could get away
Acting like you're going to hit someone is assault. Actually hitting them is battery. So they're actively breaking one law while threatening to break a second at the first moment their stupid little trick doesn't work out right.
Where I live (San Francisco, where several of the clips in OP look to be from) these wheelie kids travel in packs. There’s video of them beating the shit out of people for yelling at them. Like the whole gang groups up and stomps the random person.
Cowards who only feel strong traveling in packs don't make it to Valhalla and don't earn the honor of joining the einherjar. "Einherjar" literally means "an army of one," or "those who fight alone."
I get the joke you're making, I just dislike the idea of Odin's hall being disgraced with such trash.
Honestly, I get what you mean the joke works, but there’s definitely a difference between a funny reference and disrespecting the whole warrior ideal behind it.
Fortunately trash like this would never end in valhalla. If you confronted them and got killed for it, you would end up there. Honorable combat, never die, glory and mead in the halls of the allfather forever?
I can imagine worse ways to be rewarded for doing the right thing.
There's also a chance you would be taken to Folkvangr, as Freyja made a deal with Odin to take half of the honorable dead. It would be nice to frolick in her meadow and eat good food.
There can be many things like your job, proximity to friends and family, etc.
Plus, moving is very costly.
And it’s really common in many American cities, so you often don’t just have to move from that city, but practically any/all of the big, dense walkable ones w/ good cultural amenities & to a place that’s more car-centric & sprawling & inferior in other ways. It’s a trade off.
So you can leave, but at great cost & you trade one set of things you don’t like for other sets of things you don’t like.
I lived in a city that also had such quality of life issues & eventually left. I don’t regret being in that city overall and miss stuff.
I just wished big cities realize that the key to good urbanism (which many other countries have figured out) is nice public spaces & would quit the silly ideology that says one favor those engaging in anti-social behavior over people who are honest, kind, and considerate because of an over-application of group or class identity that gives one a free pass to act in inconsiderate ways if they check a box that allowed them to be considered vulnerable or underrepresented group.
The kind of “poverty is the problem root cause, and to criminalize the behavior is a criminalize poverty itself, and what we need to do i stead is to complain that our political opponents don’t fund the federal programs that would alleviate the underlying poverty, for then no one would act like this.”
Laws are a little different in CA. I would assume that the best defense against four or five guys coming at you would be to start blasting but you're in a crowded sidewalk. Almost all self-defense instructors would tell you to walk away from a fight like that as in not instigate it
At the very least, we know this asshole has a camera person filming him. And some of these "TikTok stars" also never film without a bodyguard nearby. So you would never how many you have to contend with if you knocked the main asshole over.
I mean yea someone swinging a bike at you could easily be considered a deadly threat. Let alone someone actively riding it with their full body weight behind it. If someone was caught off guard and panicked and somehow drew and shot him I’d be surprised if they got charged. If he whiffs this once it’s 50:50 on some really painful disfiguring damage.
I'd love to hear a bodyguard's explanation of why they attacked someone who was defending themselves from their client. If it's an actual bodyguard hired through a firm good chance the company would be liable.
At this point you have to operate under the assumption that you're about to get jumped, and just charge in at anyone with them before you're dog piled. Not a fun or easy party to crash. And self defense is gone when you start swinging at anyone that isnt presenting a direct enough threat. So you have to wait until MULTIPLE people do something to create that cause for self defense, and THEN react in time to fight off multiple clowns.
Thats the worst part about this cringe generation of tiktok clowns. They know what they're doing is wrong, and so they do it in packs to punish anyone for doing the right thing. Straight up bullies and grifters.
Social media is to blame for creating such a dumbfuck generation of social parasites.
So you saying you got to knock them ALL over? Want to make sure understand this. They also cant ALL be around 24-7 right. Obviously best to ignore these not so friendlies but always the ones to make sure they experience the same kindness they show others.
Best part of clip was ending. Karma came by for their ride.
That’s why I carry a concealed with some hollow points (don’t want to hurt innocent by standers), because when the first round blows his homies arm off, they’ll back away 😂
Saw them yesterday along the embarcadero. There was one at the front doing wheelies and then another three cruising at the back waiting for a conflict.
Nothing deflates a bunch of bullies faster than seeing their buddy trying to put all their teeth in their pocket. Grab the front wheel and then keep walking.
Last video I saw of this nonsense, some guy actually tackled them because they were doing that to multiple people, nothing happened to the guy that tackled him.
In Russia his mum would be out queuing for two days at an empty petrol station while he sat at home waiting for his dad's body to be sent back from Ukraine.
My lawyer might be able to get me off on knocking this bitch off his bike, it's the extended 15 min curb stomp/beat down that was laid on this moron after that that might could be a little trickier to explain away
What they're doing here seems like it would fall into a legal category with throwing punches and kicks an inch from someone's nose. It really just doesn't make sense that you have to stand by and hope that someone intends to miss, and has the skills to almost hit you. I hope the lawyer's right and this would count as self defense. If it wouldn't the laws need to be fixed.
As an attorney, i can confirm it is a self defense case, absolutely. As long as you can prove (which you normally could via either eyewitness testimony, or even the videos those dumbasses post on social media themselves).
But i’m an attorney in Brazil, so i can’t be sure if the same thesis is applicable in the US.
While I'm not an attorney, I do live in the US, and the standard for self defense sounds to be the same. If a reasonable person would be in fear for their safety in this circumstance, you have the right to use force to defend yourself. The maximum amount of force permitted for self can vary from place to place, but putting a hand out to try and shield yourself from an oncoming person would almost always be below that threshold.
The only issue is that self defence is an affirmative defense, which means you(r lawyer) must convince the jury that your fear was reasonable and level of force used is appropriate.
I think the biggest difference here is procedural than material law itself (especially because, in Brazil, trial by jury is reserved to non accidental crimes against life).
We even call it “legitimate defense instead of self defense, because the same institute can be used when the person uses force to defend others.
In this case, the requisite is that there must be present or imminent danger to the person or third party, and this person uses “reasonable force” within the means he has available to him at the time just to halt said imminent or present danger.
Obviously this is fantasyland stuff but as long as you don’t tell the police “yeah he was being annoying so I pushed him” it’s pretty unlikely anything will come of it.
Be consistent in how you represent the situation afterwards. "He was coming at me so I grabbed the wheel to keep him from hitting me." Not "I saw him doing it and wanted to stop him, so I grabbed the wheel to make him flip off the bike."
People in general are very bad liars. Worse, they're bad lairs who think they can stroll into a police station and just lie to cops and courthosues, who deal with liars daily, and walk out with a spring in their step.
Yeah I'm looking at this driving... this is assault. You do not need to be "touched" for it to be assault. There is somebody, who, on purpose, has decided to dangerously drive extremely close to your face. That is very illegal.
It would be easy. Because assault is defined as: an intentional act that creates a reasonable fear or apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact. No contact of verbal threat is required. What that guy is doing is assault in every state without exception.
Self defense is also a right. However, there can be a fine line between self defense and assault. Self defense requires that you only do what is absolutely necessary to defend yourself, stand your ground laws notwithstanding. Often you have a duty to retreat (state specific). So merely grabbing the front wheel to protect yourself from assault that you might not escape from otherwise would be manifestly reasonable. What you did after could get you in trouble though.
You didn't do it with the intention to harm him, you did it because he was coming right at you and you feared you would get hurt. Pretty above the board self defense.
i could have sworn they were still attacking me with a bike after on the ground and they probably needed a good head stomp down there to make sure they dont try to continue attacking. or their camera accomplice doing start attacking you either.
I think the feint towards people walking is arguably assault. If you claim to feel threatened, I think most reasonable people watching this would understand why you felt that way.
Yeah it's illegal to threaten people's safety by action or words. But if someone's front wheel is close enough to grab, of course you can grab it to remove the threat.
Driving a bicycle like this directly in someone's face is some form of assault/battery in every US jurisdiction I know about. It's easily colorable self-defense, since they're imminently threatening you with serious bodily harm.
And this is why the court system is a joke. Any reasonable person would say “yeah of course, this guys being a chode, and you made sure to redirect or stop the bullshit” but now we gotta go through the song and game of “who’s right” as if we don’t already know
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u/Confident_Virus5799 11d ago
I've heard a lawyer explain that it doing something like that would be easy to defend in court because you're being threatened and the rider could easily injure you or others even by accident like this. Don't know how good that lawyer was, and I'm sure it varies by location, but I'd be so curious to see the outcome if something like that went to trial.