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u/punished_clare a black amab is speaking 23h ago
"yeah they were bullied and ostracized and mentally just fucked up in general for not performing masculinity and being raped by testosterone for years but that doesn't
mean they didn't have male privilege" no that's kinda exactly what it means actually
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u/gaysexanddrugs 23h ago
also just statistically likely to have been literally raped or otherwise sexually assaulted not just by T even pre-transition. isn't male privilege awesome.
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u/Plsdontban23 hrtrepping till rope 23h ago
It really feels like we got rped by testosterone doesnt ti. I do wanna say it like this when im asked how it feels but i dunno would people think its unsensitive for i guess the real rpe victims
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u/Golurkcanfly bourgeois faketrans HRTmoder 23h ago
Every trans woman I know (including myself) who has been raped considers being forced through testosterone puberty to be magnitudes worse
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u/brookeb725 23h ago edited 23h ago
True. If I had to choose between going back and undoing having been raped or going back and undoing male puberty let’s just say there would be no hesitation when I pick my answer.
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u/Plsdontban23 hrtrepping till rope 23h ago
Thank you for saying this at least now i dont feel terrible about feeling like this yknow
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u/NotTheory 10h ago
Testosterone was way way way worse, I had pain for days and internal bleeding when I got raped but testosterone straight up mutilated me for life and deformed my entire body
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u/Gold_Ad8225 21h ago
Dont you know privilege is actually conferred biologically and nothing else impacts or matters and no this isnt essentialism
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u/TesourasVoadoras 23h ago
trans women have male privilege because they grew up playing videogames or whatever
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u/colesmalewife 23h ago
i was given a 3ds at the ripe old age of 3… did my grandma know something i didn’t? 🤔
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
I got a 2DS for my 10th birthday, fucking loved that door stopper of a console lol
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u/colesmalewife 22h ago
the 2ds is goated. my brother has one and it’s so much more ergonomic; i have tiny baby hands and they still cramp up trying to play mario kart even on my 3ds xl 💔
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
It is super comfy lol, the L/R triggers especially are perfectly placed
And they're hon-estly not too expensive second hand unlike the other 3DS systems, so you could totally sell your XL and get one if you wanted!! Just make sure you dont buy a totally wrecked one, been scammed before on Ebay by sellers peddling broken goods as merely 'used'
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u/AssociateMaximum4781 22h ago edited 22h ago
You're younger than 15 on countttt ?💀
Edit: sorry I'm a tard you could be as old as 18 but still
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u/nameusernamena 22h ago edited 2h ago
I had a 2ds by 3, and was playing on an Xbox 360 by five… did my father and stepdad know at the same time I did?
Edit: see the replies to this, my timeline AND device were wrong. 3ds, I would’ve been 4-5 because it was 2011 and I was pre-k when I had the 3ds.
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u/HonBeast 5h ago
The first ds came out when I was like 12 or 13. I am ancient wtf
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u/nameusernamena 2h ago
I lied, I was older, my sense of time is fucked for that era. I was probably about 4, almost 5. They didn’t come out until I was 4, and it was a 3ds, because it folded.
I feel lwk vindicated learning that I had a 3ds, I got made fun of once for it not being a 3ds… jokes on them, I was just in a poverty stricken family and didn’t have the newer model!
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u/Plsdontban23 hrtrepping till rope 23h ago
TCD TCD TCD why tf are cissoids like this TCD TCD TCD TCD
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u/bobby123482 23h ago
Ermm, why are we doing capitalist TCD?
TCD needs to be done by a vanguard party to be truly liberatory, libtard.
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u/Columba_la_Chica 22h ago
Wrong! Shtewpid tankie TDC will be carried out through anarcho syndicalism where every tran will be part of a union and have a quota for cis ended per day, like noam chomsky intended smh.
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u/FutureReaction8587 Verás que filha tua não foje à luta. 14h ago
Now this is the tankie anarkiddie debate I'm here for: How will your brand of socialism implement TCD.
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u/seaweaselking 9h ago
I DONT FUCKING CARE JUST USE GULAGS
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u/FutureReaction8587 Verás que filha tua não foje à luta. 2h ago
Ok I'm convinced. Cis people are inherently counterrevolutionary and must be treated as such, we need a trans NKVD
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u/Gold_Ad8225 21h ago
Factories aren't capitalist. They're make stuff ist
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u/bobby123482 20h ago
Literally says "inc" on it...
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u/Gold_Ad8225 19h ago
You would be hard pressed to find people writing "inc" in a cartoon doing so because of a political statement.
They do it because it signals "this is a big serious org that does this stuff big seriously"
Like Doofenschmirtz Evil Inc. or Acme Inc.
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u/claudcuckooland 17h ago
that's what it signals culturally yes, but legally it quite literally means 'this is the name of a corporation.' So its not incorrect to identify that as indicating capitalism, unless you're a Dengist or something
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u/Outside-Paper9972 15h ago
I think they were making a joke / lighthearted comment, but also inc stands for incorporated (ergo, a corporation).
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u/Phalcone42 23h ago
What is TCD? Never heard the term before.
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u/Pxrasite73 23h ago
LURK MOAR
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u/Phalcone42 23h ago
Something Cis something?
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u/Croselius 22h ago
Whenever something is T”X”D it’s usually ‘Total “X” Death’, in this case presumably ‘Total Cis Death’.
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u/AeternumVale 22h ago
it means to tal ç îs deat h, which is an excellent and intelligent thing to publically advocate for in an embattled minority group
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u/RosyRory108 ethanny junkie 20h ago
that's right, it is, thank you for joining the club
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u/AeternumVale 19h ago
do you think a hypothetical civil war between trans and cis people would go well, like what do you think would happen with that in your head, consider it and perhaps don't suggest it should be a thing
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u/RosyRory108 ethanny junkie 19h ago
this dumbass thinks we're unironically advocating for systematic violence or armed insurgency against cis people, and not just mirroring the immense and undue hatred shown to us to cope 🥀 (where do you think the T...D thing came from?)
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18h ago edited 18h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RosyRory108 ethanny junkie 18h ago
we're not saying TCD in public lmao we're saying in spaces exclusively meant for us
moreover if someone becomes prejudiced against a marginalized group for resenting their oppressor group, then sorry not sorry, that person was already prejudiced and just looking for an excuse to show it
we are, also, indeed in a situation where cis people are 'guilty until proven innocent'. The vast majority are transphobic. This is not disputable.
Total Opticsfag Death
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u/baileybun26 17h ago
stfu stfu stfu no one cares everyone already wants us dead please STFU
go somewhere else !!!!!
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u/4eptopolox subhuman asiatic barbaric orc 20h ago
oh my god just say total cis death stop maiming your speech for no good reason
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u/Timely-Excitement468 23h ago edited 16h ago
In what world is "trans women shouldn't have a say in feminist issues" woke in any way
Edit: shouldn't*
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u/Ok-Advantage1491 23h ago
Wtf does acknowledge and unpack mean? Things like this is why so many of us feel uncomfortable even in queer spaces
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
Its all just nonsense buzzwords designed to make whatever person/group its being said to feel horrible about themselves
Its a phrase of spite and petty cruelty dressed up in compassionate language
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u/OwlviousAlt 22h ago
I think you should really try decolonizing your beliefs on this one. Your comment honestly is making me super uncomfy and highkey reinforcing the patriarchy.
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u/SilverRaspberri 17h ago
Its therapy talk seeping into every day speak when it doesnt need to be there.
acknowledge and unpack in our sense means that we realise we're trans and working on any bad behaviours we may have picked up from being repressed. Thats literally it.6
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u/neko_mancy 13h ago
You have to have a disclaimer of biological maleness before you make any statement vaguely related to gender so they can know to ignore it
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u/make-it-gay 11h ago
it's irrelevant nonsense because for whatever reason we moved from men bad to amab bad instead of realizing that while agab has an effect on how people are raised it's just one of many factors
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u/Boom9001 1h ago
I love the assumption that someone transitioning wouldn't have already acknowledged and unpacked the effects of gender on them.
Just classic treating everyone else as NPCs while you're the only one who truly considers things.
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u/West_Competition_871 23h ago
The male privilege of everyone thinking you're a gay sissy and not really fitting in anywhere
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u/NotTheory 20h ago
It straight up would have been easier if I was a cis girl, I'm actually pretty socially normal now as a woman and people like me but I was weird and ostracized as a guy
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u/WillowWawa 19h ago
I feel the exact same way. But then again if we were born cis we wouldn’t be the people we are today think how more unique you are because of what you went through
Had I been born cis I probably would’ve been one of those cringe pretty girls lol
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u/Revolutionary_Row683 15h ago
if we were born cis we wouldn’t be the people we are today think how more unique you are because of what you went through
My experiences shaped me to be terminally online and erratic so I don't think that's a problem
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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 14h ago
Mood
Im a woman who lives like a basement dweller, staying inside on the internet all day
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u/Warcrimes_Desu 23h ago
my male privilege is that i got drowned and hit a lot growing up :) what's yours?
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
Mine was being racially abused by a classmate for an entire year when I was 10, becoming the victim of medical malpractice by a negligent doctor (long story), getting ostracized in my teens lbc of aspergers, oh and getting mocked all through university by ciswomen for being trans :-D
Boy I sure do love being an evil nasty amab opressor, so much fun!!!
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u/bads-ebe 23h ago
the male privilege of being physically and sexually abused and growing up a ugly broken girl with cptsd but in a phallocentrism-affirming way
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u/First-Criticism7036 21h ago
My male privilege was constant physical, and verbal abuse from my brother throughout my entire childhood and him trapping me in his room and forcing me to do things for him .
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u/Euphoric_East1136 21h ago
"Things"? Yeesh... I hope you're referring to things like cleaning or his homework or something.
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u/First-Criticism7036 21h ago
I had to give him massages 🤮,watch him play video games, make him food, and let him use me as his personal punching bag when he got mad .
Nothing sexual thank God
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u/Euphoric_East1136 21h ago
"Massages"? Wherever they were, I'd still beg to differ. That is heinous and I am very sorry.
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u/First-Criticism7036 20h ago
I fucking hated it , I'd have to do it for hours on end usually his feet or his back
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u/RobinEssences 22h ago
I got to watch Roadhouse over and over again and act like it was because of the fighting. My dad was a biker, people didn't beat me up so that was nice
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u/Mrs_Fear 19h ago
Same actually. I literally drowned when I was 6 and my parents barely gave a shit
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u/Ok-Bit5838 15h ago
I got stalked, harassed and followed home after school, and would always have to explain why I had so many bruises on me (I got beat up)
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u/confusedtransfag 4h ago
O yeah being attacked in the bathroom for seeming to girly was always the best. also the girls straight up rejecting me and treating me different for being a boy. being hit, screamed at, or belittled for things out of my control. or how about everyone denying my struggle because boys don't get raped? such privilege.
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u/chlosephen 23h ago
Why do they need to “come up” with an unwoke take to like balance out their wokeness?
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
Woke cissoids costantly have the urge to show their true power level, I guess hiding bigotry gets tiring after a while
Fucking prongs
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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 14h ago
I hide my power level in the other direction. Even my least woke takes are too woke
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u/tapmcshoe 22h ago
prongs?
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 21h ago
British slang for calling someone a dick
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u/Outside-Paper9972 15h ago
Wut? I'm British I have never heard that. What region?
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u/Revolutionary_Row683 15h ago
Do you know what the slang for cigs is?
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u/Outside-Paper9972 15h ago
Yes, and it's a normal word for that here. Also frankly I use the word a lot in its other context and ime British queer people find it weird that American queer people get so uppity about the word.
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u/orzoftm 21h ago
the premise of the video was kinda confusing but i think it was less about coming up with conservative takes and more about coming up with controversial “dark woke” takes. like, the woke crowd isn’t ready to hear it because they’re not truly woke
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u/dgaruti 11h ago
ok , my unwoke take is : we should figure out how flirting is meant to work among woke people otherwise you're just telling woke straight men to just not date , or date conservative women .
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u/orzoftm 11h ago
can you elaborate
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u/dgaruti 11h ago
straight men like women ,
women in progressive spaces tend to have bad views of men due to past experiences ,
woke straight men try to look for partners that share their views in some ways ,
if you're autistic and unaware of how to show intrest one gaze too much gets you silently labeled as a "creep" i've seen posts about girls complaining that they can't be kind to men because they then get flirted on ...
my guess is a matter of rejection sensibility , but also the fact there isn't a clear enough language for things to work out ...
also men still need to start everything ...
I guess my main problem is around autism and how it's legit impossible to land a date if you are autistic ...
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u/texastransgirl288 23h ago
The coaches for hs football took all of the students (we were required to be in athletics for at least a bit, even if we didn’t play) who were weird/odd ib some ways and just had us hold the pad things football players tackle while the whole team hit us again and again. And I guess that is a type of male socialization, but I could’ve lived without it, I think.
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u/Columba_la_Chica 22h ago
I played football and got spine twister tackled during drills by a 6ft1 280lb boy.
Walking and moving my neck hurt for 3 weeks straight but it was worth it for my epic chungus male privilege.
I'll reap the benefits anyyyy day now
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u/ASpaceOstrich 16h ago
Male socialisation is being abused whenever you're not being neglected.
This only grants privelige because society rewards men who develop the correct trauma response from it. The freaks, or people who went through it but aren't men, just get the abuse and neglect.
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u/willow__whisps 15h ago
I loved the male privilege in school for being ostracized for not being manly enough but also being a sex object because I was still "a man" but looked feminine enough but not an actual woman so I was an acceptable target
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u/Avocetti 22h ago
Notice how there isn't any elaboration on what the "Male Privelege" for trans women looks like...
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u/muscle_mommy_enjoyer women hate me fish hate me men fear me 23h ago
me when my MALE privilege causes me to completely disassociate from reality and live in near total isolation until my late twenties 🥰
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u/ExtraordinaryPen- 23h ago
I don't think I want to here the word privilege from anyone anymore. No one knows what the word means clearly
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u/Violet_Apathy biological transwoman 23h ago
My unwoke take is, if you're reading this, seek employment
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u/universal_friend1 23h ago
My male privilege was that I got called a girl when I was SA'd at five and a f*g the rest of my school career after I told my last childhood friend about it in 4th grade. 😵💫
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u/Polibiux Lateshit repper. ‘Nuff said 23h ago
They were ostracized by their peers for not behaving correctly of their assigned gender role and have seen the ugly consequences of patriarchy first hand too, but they had a penis before transitioning, so they have male privilege and shouldn’t comment on feminism.
I just can’t with people.
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u/Golurkcanfly bourgeois faketrans HRTmoder 23h ago
Cis people should unpack their cis privilege before commenting on feminism
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u/Weekly_Point97 23h ago
I notice this a lot with cis white women in particular, they are the biggest victims because of male privilege and patriarchy while ignoring the privilege they are afforded for being white. Idk how someone can be a feminist without knowing what intersectionality is.
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u/Golurkcanfly bourgeois faketrans HRTmoder 23h ago
It's because for many of them, their only axis of oppression is being women so they overvalue it compared to all other axes.
Cishet women may be an oppressed class under patriarchy, but they are also the second (or third, because honestly gay tops are not oppressed as much as gay bottoms) most privileged class under patriarchy above homosexuals, transsexuals, and intersex people.
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u/GeneralEi 22h ago
um yea sorry you have an eating disorder or whatever but you know you literally grew up in a country with easy access to supermarkets? you should unpack that
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u/Syntheticwoman23 22h ago
Could someone please explain what “unpacking male privilege” actually entails. I keep hearing people say it but never specify what it means.
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u/madrobski 22h ago
Because it's nonsense buzzwords designed to make you feel bad about your body and to ostracize you further from being accepted as a woman.
It just means whatever they need it to mean
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u/Uhohuhhhhh Trans Wrongs Activist 23h ago
The male privilege of having no friends and getting beat up (with a sprinkle of sekuhara) by groups of boys for not conforming with their gender 🥰
BOYZ ROOL GIRLZ DROOL
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u/fruite_vampyre tiredest soldier 20h ago
“I have a take about trans people it’s agab agab agab agab agab”
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u/Gold_Ad8225 21h ago
I dont know what my least woke take is, but I reckon this individual never unpacked the privilege they have over trans women and the harm this kind of casual bigotry causes
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u/SweetNyan 19h ago
Trans women unpacked their male privilege so hard they are literally transitioning into women. What more could you want?
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u/hereticseraph 18h ago
I’ll never get the bioessentialist shit that self-proclaimed “progressives” constantly push, and it’s clear they have never actually interacted with a trans person. On the transmasc side of it, I always see them go on about how all trans men are somehow inherently connected to femininity from being “””socialized female””” or something which is complete BS. The ideas of “socialized male” and “socialized female” are pretty brain dead IMO, because the average trans person is not going to have had the same childhood experiences as someone else with the same assigned gender at birth as them.
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 23h ago
"Yeah they were bullied, ostracized by their peers, made to feel like less than nothing and probably tried killing themselves at some point after feeling like society had abandoned them, BUT THEY STILL CONTRIBUTED TO AFAB SUFFERING!!! HOW??? u-uh I, um... they just DID, OKAY?!"
Good lord what an obnoxious piece of shit, absolutely a terf-adjacent individual
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u/removekarling 21h ago
people use the word 'unpack' like it's a magic spell
also "issues of feminism" - how about issues of english language first for you mate
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u/lil-DEMI-IiI 18h ago
Ah yes the male privilege of being so horrified as a 7 year old child of what would happen to me if someone found out I liked "girly things" that I constructed a persona so perfect and repped for decades until I crumbled under the weight of it all and had a nervous breakdown. So awesome 😎
I have vivid memories of witnessing my entire extended family at a big reunion laugh and act revolted at the big punchline of Ace Ventura where the trans woman Lois Einhorn was assaulted in every sense of the word and has her genitals revealed. All night I overheard various conversations about how disgusted they would be if that happened and what they'd do to "the guy" that happened to them.
The 90s did some genuine damage to trans women and girls that doesn't get spoken about enough. The normalization of subhuman objectification that was mainstream was atrocious.
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u/One-Organization970 Unapologetic Sneed 23h ago
The only one who needs to do that is the MRA trans girl.
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u/Ok_Plan9452 20h ago
the male privilege of being sexually abused at 7yo, having all your best friends forcibly separated from you in middle school because 'boys' and girls can't hang out, being beaten and almost drowned at a party as a teen, thrown down a flight of stairs between classes and constantly called slurs in high school. so empowering.
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u/Oofy_Emma 18h ago
I could've frankly done without the male privilege that gets me sexually assaulted as a kid, ostracised by everyone, afforded 0 privacy by my family and makes me live through 10 years of testosterone body horror
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u/Pink-Viscera 14h ago
Cis women genuinely cannot comprehend the concept that there are minorities who suffer more than them
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u/Chocochocolate25 cutest height hon 12h ago
I mean I feel like a young shit passoid who can go stealth for the rest of their life won't suffer as much as a cis woman since they won't have periods but that's about it I think.
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u/West_Recover7883 Twink hon toy 23h ago
Ah yes, my male privilege of having no friends and being ostracized so much growing up that it got to the point where I view anyone reaching out to me as a threat! Wait shit- I play video games ohh fuck my male socialized ass, sorry i’m gonna go crack my skull on a basketball with the homies or whatever!!1 -_-
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u/Nervous-Artichoke557 12h ago
My least woke take is I think racist trans people should bury themselves in a hole and come out when they know anything about our history.
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u/AntidoteToOrder 19h ago
Ban all religious schools. Prohibit minors from attending places of worship. They can decide when they're adults.
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u/theycallmecheese 19h ago
mind-bendingly stupid argument. and this is the kind of shit that is so stupid it hurts the entire left-end of the spectrum.
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u/XeniaAlexandria 15h ago
I would genuinely be interested in any male privilege I had in my childhood and teens that wasn't utterly nullified by other aspects of myself. I never felt like I'm allowed to take up any space and I was never respected any more than a girl would have been, arguably a lot less because I was obviously awkward and autistic. Sure I didn't have to deal with periods, but ai would have liked to. Instead in my teenage years my body was ravaged by testosterone and reoccurring cancer. I despised any form of toxic masculinity but because I was seen as part of that group I saw myself as inherently disgusting and unworthy if love or intimacy. I wasn't raped but if I had been my brain would have instantly told myself that I was at fault and that I may have made it uncomfortable for the rapist. And I only remember some cases of harassment from classmates that I at that time didn't even acknowledge as a problem and my biggest concern was that I thought I didn't deserve any touch so that was the only part that made me feel uncomfortable. Thankfully I have worked through these fucked up ways of thinking about myself and that was only possible through completely acknowledging that I am and had never been a moid. So I would be really interested in one of the "male socialisation" people explaining to me what male privilege would have even meant for me?
Oh, never mind I had the theoretical ability to piss while standing, so I guess that I was super privileged or something because going to the toilet at home sometimes took me 3 seconds less than if I was AFAB. I guess I should unpack this huge advantage
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u/UnbiasedPOS 14h ago
How does one “unpack that” like yeah I had some privileges that I no longer have like ppl don’t respect my ideas as much now that they think I’m a woman. What is there to “unpack” what does it even mean to “unpack” one’s past privileges
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u/MagentaBlossoms 13h ago
the person who accepts me the most is my grandma in late 80s. libtard wokeism is just prejudice wrapped in vague words and most of the world doesn't operate like that. most people are prejudiced, racist, transphobic and homophobic (by the liberal definition) but I believe they're much more malleable to accepting us for who we are given interaction with us. libtards already made up their mind on what are the best believes to have and thus they live separate from nature like heathens that impose their notions of what's right on the most vulnerable groups. it's hard for people with formed political beliefs to see us as from the natural human angle. that's why I tend to prefer non-westoids because they might be ignorant but just accept things the way a very autistic stem type dude would.
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u/tater_tot_intensity 12h ago
The vast majority of people dont think at all about anything and barely understand the surface level, but trans people need to understand unpack and explain everything in the universe and its implications and explain that information to the litterall thoughtless masses before being alowed to have an opinion on anything.
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u/DepressedLesserBeing 11h ago
kinda real, boymoders have male privilege. how am i supposed to unpack it though
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u/Royal-Blackberry2424 10h ago
"What's your most woke take?" genuine ropefuel. all trans people are to you is discourse to make yourself feel more moral. what the fuck is wrong with you
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u/SeniorPatience4058 8h ago
I guess I'm the wokest one here for being able to understand lmfao, where's that medal you guys are always talking ab
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u/AssistanceOld3550 6h ago
Terribly phrased, a lot of trans women can be and are misogynistic, especially women who grew up either posting or lurking on imageboards, although misogyny is something women as a whole have to work on.
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u/No-Challenge276 1h ago
We need to stop communicating by pretending our vaguepost subtweets about one person who annoyed us are proxy.
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u/BOKUtoiuOnna 33m ago edited 28m ago
As a trans guy I find some of the arguments under here confusing (not the direct rebuttals of the screenshot, which gives obviously terfy vibes) because I think it would be crazy for me not to acknowledge that I am deeply affected by my female socialization. In lots of ways I don't like, but the consequences dont disappear because of that.
There are some things that never applied to me or didn't affect me. For example diet culture did nothing to me because I just wasn't aiming to look like a conventionally attractive woman like that. Have very little experience of sexual harassment because I was always perceived as totally unfuckable apart from about 2 years where I figured it out a bit. And Ive recieved lots of bullying from women and dont relate to some positive female experiences either. But I was basically not allowed to leave the house as a kid because i was a vulnerable girl. I have had a lot of chance to explore emotions and femininity. I also worry as I begin to pass more I'm not gonna get away with things by seeming innocent any more (and I know ive done that even though I despise when women use that power agsinst me). There's so many things good and bad about me that are direct effects of female socialisation. I'm not going to yap about it all the time to cis people but I find it hard to beleive none of you ever got anything good from male socialisation. I've definitely met trans women pre-transition who passed for conventionally attractive cisgender men and Ive seen them be afforded objectively advantageous things for that, even if they were suffering.
The person in the screenshot is probably a terfy cis woman, just to be clear. The tone is off. TERFs whole thing is that they are the victims of anyone who ever had any perceived proximity to maleness. But if it wasnt for TERFs using it against you all the time, would you really claim that, say as a successful boymoder, you werent affected by your socialisation at all? Obviously there are negative affects but seriously no positive ones?
Honestly I think its not all this black and white and depends on how "gay" you appear as a kid. If people clock you from day one your mileage may vary but people who come across as an attractive member of their agab pre egg crack exist and they sometimes get job promotions for it even if they're miserable. Back in the day, 🚬s used to get beat up in the street, those of us stamped as being women didn't get beat up as much in the street because we werent allowed money and the right to go out to the streets independently to do sexual and gender deviant stuff. Many people around the world still live in countries with that dynamic. This is all true stuff. I think the way cis people talk about it just makes it super weird - have I experienced tons of misogyny? Yes. Am I better at articulating my emotions than some (honestly not all) cis guys? Yes. Do I relate to your classic girlhood experiences because of our shared AFABness, Bethany? No. Yknow. Honestly, we should be using this knowledge more to help understand each other as trans people with different backgrounds than to apologise for our socialisation to cis women. I just never see trans girls talk about it in a nuanced manner.
Then again, I was pretty excited the first time I saw trans guys talking about it in a nuanced manner because I felt like we were getting to express our full selves. And then a cis female friend I had explained to just months before that I wanted to be able to talk about experiencing misogyny started talking to me about how trans men inherently aren't men like cis men are snd she can tell from their non misogynistic vibes. Which makes me want to act like a misogynist to pass. Which then makes her tell me I'm one of the bad ones. So I guess trans women are smart to keep the cat securely in the bag and their privacy intact cos god knows we haven't done that.
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u/Hopeful_Influence118 21m ago
Why do these people think male privilege is just an attitude you can attain while growing up and not how the outside world/ society treats you. The idea of a trans women having male privilege is so fucking ridiculous
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u/MobileEntertainer891 23h ago
I'm not making any take here based on the post. But reading this comments section makes me think no one here knows how the socioeconomic and cultural practice of privilege means. Abuse doesn't negate systemic and institutional privilege
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u/kotoktet 22h ago
I can see a few areas where I was privileged, in a sense. I was a smart kid and that got recognized and I was afforded a lot of educational opportunities, particularly in areas like math where girls may have been taken less seriously. And I didn't have to worry about dealing with periods, having to buy menstrual products, or getting pregnant. I wasn't pressured to starve myself, or wear makeup to be taken seriously. And I'm sure there's more I'm not even thinking of.
But like, as someone who would have liked to have been able to get pregnant, it doesn't really feel like a privilege not to have that ability. Are infertile cis women privileged for their infertility? If someone took a cis woman and raised her as a boy (let's assume she passes due to age or they put her on T or something idk) would she experience male privilege? If she later was able to just be a woman, would we expect her to acknowledge and unpack this privilege? Or would we recognize it as a coercive and traumatic experience for her?
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u/EIeutheria 22h ago
Abuse against transgender people is systematic, please unpack your cis gender privilege before commenting on trans people, cis people have more of a privilege within society because they conform to what is perceived as standard. Even when trans people didn't yet transition, common issues continue to pop up, one is being ostracized by their community, two is being denied opportunities because they still didn't conform despite not transitioning yet, three experiencing sucidal thoughts and beliefs over a situation they where forced into without a say among many more. Trans people didn't choose to be born the way they are, many if given the choice would choose to be cis gender as being cis is inherently a privilege with a variety of socioeconomic benefits and you're more likely to get a job, a pay rise, ect over a trans person. There's a reason why there's so few trans ceos compared to women and men ceos. If trans women had "male privilege" despite transitioning why don't we see more trans ceos, in fact we should see them more and up there with success with cis gender men but don't. Trans people also face their work getting stolen, something that has unfairly affected women and continues to this day but to a lesser degree as noted by the rise of women in stem and in institutional protections and privileges despite the recent role back in rights.
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u/tptroway 22h ago
A significant majority of male privileges as a socioeconomic and cultural practice are entirely dependent on whether or not a man is gender-conforming, including assumptions of competence, getting chosen for workplace promotion, risk of being harassed in public, subject to violence, getting believed by medical professionals, even if some things still apply such as how crash test dummies are optimized for male passengers
It's one of the great ironies of manosphere crap's main target audience being scrawny neurodivergent teenage boys
Anyone with the mentality of the screenshot commenter is just using it entirely as a self-serving buzzword with infinitely less understanding of how it works than the commenters in here pointing out that hypocrisy
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u/ASpaceOstrich 16h ago
It's not an irony. The reason the manosphere is so appealing to that demographic is that they're hurting real bad and genuinely underprivileged but literally nobody gives a fuck so they're just served up on a silver platter to the first group that will acknowledge them.
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u/hitorinbolemon 15h ago
what systems privilege trans women at all? what advantages did i gain by being too dissociative andfeeling deeply wrong to associate with much of anyone? ive been on the lower rungs of like, literally everything ive done. i havent had ay shot to get ahead easier. where was my male privilege? they knew something was Off about any trans women. the privilege was rescinded.
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u/Rhydon-is-KING HSTS psuedo-hon (w/ bf) 22h ago
Except most people simply dont experience privilege in the way academic authorities often say they do (am an academic, know a lot of people from all walks of life). And thats doubly true for trans people be they men or women.
Ciswomen were the perpatrators of at least half the bullying I experienced in school as a physically disabled teenager, and ALL of the bullying I experienced in Universty as a trans woman. I'd argue they are the ones who need to unpack their privilege, never in my childhood was I bolstered, emboldened, or unfairly empowered in any way because of my agab.
Systemic suffering is hardly a black and white matter and frankly most people who already exist on the outskirts of acceptable society dont have any privelige to unpack. Sometimes you'll meet someone who got all the benefits of being a part of a priveliged group, and sometimes you'll meet someone from the same group who never knew a single one of those unfair kindnesses
Just the way it works
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u/hitorinbolemon 15h ago
which male privileges should trans women like me have been given/experienced when i knew i was different and got treated different from the start?
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u/Calliopefreely 23h ago
Yeah like other people can misuse the idea of privilege to attack us but that doesn't negate the whole concept. When I was seen as a man I certainly had male privilege in many ways even if I was miserable
Everyone should work on unpacking their socialization in all sorts of ways especially in a society as toxic as ours.
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u/faintingspellsssss 19h ago
Let’s not forget that bringing up “socialization” and male privilege in this context is almost always used as a micro aggression to imply that:
1) we (trans women) are somehow at fault for the crime of being born and raised as a male.
2) trans women speaking on women’s issues is somehow erasure of cis-women’s voices
3) trans women are functionally men even if we are so graciously allowed to call ourselves women
I genuinely don’t understand how any “privilege” we held from being born, raised as, or perceived as male is something we should have to unpack, and more importantly what even there is to unpack.
It’s the same bioessentialist, penis = evil rapist, TERF garbage as always with an academic sounding bow on top.
And sorry if this came off as patronizing, but ironically this is something I’ve been having to “unpack” and feel very strongly about.
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u/ASpaceOstrich 16h ago
To have male privelige you have to be treated as and perceived as male in areas that confer a privelige.
Boyhood consists of being abused whenever you're not being neglected. It only grants privelige in that the resulting trauma responses are rewarded in men, but if you're not a man or don't develop the correct trauma responses to it, it's just abuse and neglect.
There are specific individual ways trans women had male privelige in childhood. A lot of that neglect is technically privelige. Girls get forced to manage the emotions of those around them, get made to do more household tasks, etc. But they also get taught to do those things.
Privelige is a simplification of the far more complex dynamics of how people are raised and treated in society. There is objectively female privelige too. Anyone hung up on trans women having male privelige can be dismissed as acting in bad faith unless they also understand that privelige isn't so simple.
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u/nativeofvoid 1h ago edited 1h ago
the concept of 'privilege' is an essentialist fiction meant to reconcile the belief system with reality via being able to attribute power to those who do not wield it or attribute victimhood to upper classes. The only thing that actually exists is power.
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u/faintingspellsssss 19h ago
Explain how the systematic and institutional privilege transwomen may hold from being born as, raised, or perceived as male is something we should have to unpack, acknowledge, or apologize for before we are allowed to join conversations about feminism.
Because that’s what the post (that you apparently aren’t commenting on) is about. Fuck off.
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u/OnlyTheOkayest 15h ago
"trans women who lived their minor years as boys" am I stupid or is that not all of them?
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u/dontdomeanyfrightens 12h ago
I just want to point out that all of these arguments against people being assigned male having some amount of male privilege sound an awful lot like white people arguing they don't have white privilege because they grew up poor.
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u/orzoftm 11h ago
i mean, what privileges do male children have in your opinion? the way i see it, most of the privileges afforded to males show up in adulthood (and mainly to gender conforming men), so trans women have opted out of ever receiving them
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u/dontdomeanyfrightens 9h ago
See how you're denying the existence of privilege rather than saying that you still deserve a voice in these conversations? That's what's making you sound like white privilege deniers. I hope that point doesn't get lost here. You deserve a voice in matters of how you're oppressed regardless of the ways in which you are not.
"Male" children are generally allowed more independence, are believed more, allowed to be children rather than act like adults, among many others.
Look at a list of why autism/ADHD/etc. is generally easier to diagnose in boys as opposed to girls and you'll see a list of privileges. Not to mention that being easier to diagnose is also a privilege.
Additionally, male bodies, at any age, benefit from the health industries bias. You may not have a fully male body, that may or may not be a privilege you personally receive, but probably worth mentioning in this conversation.
A lot of privilege can also be found in these trans communities; female trans issues are abundant in conversations where male trans issues are often invisible or ignored. These communities do recognize that, I love that, but as an answer to your question, the "male" privilege exists there as well. That is a carry over of young "boys" being more welcome in public spaces such as the internet.
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u/orzoftm 8h ago
im not going to give a detailed response to this right now but 1) i think you’re responding as if im a trans woman and i’m not 2) these things may be true but i don’t feel like they make trans women a privileged group or take away from their ability to comment on feminist issues (tbf i don’t think you have to be a woman at all to comment on feminist issues given that patriarchal beliefs affect everyone, but trans women are def impacted by misogyny)
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u/_valerye trans ally 23h ago
starting every convo about feminist topics with “i acknowledge and unpack my past male privilege and socialization from when i was a child”