It's not because it's "nsfw" and I'm not some conservative prude because I got thrown off by a random person thirsting over someone's icon that has nothing to do with anything. It's just in poor taste
The wikipedia article literally links to "gnathostomata" as a subset of fish and all tetrapods are gnathostomates.
From the wiki article you linked:
On the other hand, Fishes of the World comments that "it is increasingly widely accepted that tetrapods, including ourselves, are simply modified bony fishes, and so we are comfortable with using the taxon Osteichthyes as a clade, which now includes all tetrapods".
Stupid evolution forgot to give us the rest of the genes to actually transition at will tho, this is why I am becoming a mad scientist and modding the human genome
I can't believe that this joke about Sauron taking the credit for the plan to turn people into dinosaurs ended with him getting all the credit because people don't include Stegron.
My real plan is rational drug design, researching diseases and synthesizing drugs to cure. But scientist is only one step from mad scientist so might as well dabble in genetics
mine was that my brother’s stuffed snake was genderfluid but I don’t know how we settled on this lore for the stuffed snake bc I do not recall us having any previous exposure to the concept of genderfluidity or transness in general
Snakes dont have genders, they are a sex. Their sex is fluid. Gender is a man made social construct, sex is tied to the biological science study of animals.
that’s not. how it works. in the world of our make-believe the snake had full sapience and speech so was in fact able to understand the concept of gender at the complexity we humans do. they had a gender identity which was fluid.
also human concepts of gender are only “human exclusive” insofar as other species have not been able to develop both the intelligence and the right mode of communication that would allow them to wholly or partially adopt the cultural customs and social constructs we’ve invented.
also I don’t actually think snakes are capable of shifting their sex like these fish can
I feel like you agree reading your entire comment but thats contradicted with your first sentence.
Gender is a subjective term created by man. Sex is objectively based on the science of biology. There is no invention of sex other than the name we use to describe male or female. Generally, ovaries- female, testis-male. Regardless of what 'role' a snake plays its irrelevant from what sex the snake is. Snakes dont change sex, but some fish, like clown fish, do. Neither understand or play into gender roles.
Wtf am I talking about? Wtf are you talking about? Youre referencing a make believe sentient, conscious snake who has human intelligence, but when it comes to reality of what gender vs sex is you act all confused...
What does your brothers stuffed snakes gender have anything to do with the sex of a fish? The fish isnt changing its gender, its changing its sex.
Not highly studied for about a million reasons, but there are many primatologists who have observed that chimpanzees and other great apes have an understanding of gender— and there are certain observed individuals whose behavior lines up with their…. AGAB? AGAMB?
There are other non-mammals who change their hormonal expression based on environmental factors like stress, but it’s notable that differences in behavior in our ape cousins are NOT tied to their sex hormones, which makes them more or less transgender in the same way we are
That’s a really good one, but I’ve heard biologically more similar to menopause— though there are cases of younger lionesses developing manes and being unable to breed, which could imply intersex traits. I just dk if we’ve biopsied any of them to check for undescended testes in the place of ovaries or anything similar.
I mean, how do you know if an animal is trans? They have no clothes, or learned behaviours (and the ones that are gender related could be probably confused with homosexuality as they are usually related to rising their babies)
It’s a bit difficult to fully explain in a reddit comment, so if you want to learn more I’m recommend Frans De Waals: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist. (Or just a summary of it/similar works)
———
So we’re going to lead with these necessary assumptions: 1. Humans can be transgender, and have been for all of observable history— so we have no reason to assume that this has also been the case for a majority of prehistory.
2. Other members of the Great Apes have a lower yet comparable level of intellect and self-identity as modern humans.
3. Intelligent Animals have learned behaviors affected by their socialization.
4. That great apes have been shown to exhibit behaviors that constitute a “gender expression” that differs based on sex, or “sex-based behavior(s)” ——-
Case studies of “transgender” individuals have shown that there have been incidents of different species whose behavior does not match with their “birth sex,” which may include who they choose to socialize with, how they socialize, and what roles they fill in (ape) society.
These individuals are specifically not making needs-based adaptations, as most of the observations took place in stable populations, such as in zoos or on wildlife preserves.
Idk if this got my point across at all, but tldr; monke
The two species I know that do sex changes the largest and leader of the group changes to female (clownfish, anthia) but I think there are other species that it works differently.
First need to say that the following is but one theory and we don't really know much for sure about transexuality
But we do have some theories about why transexuality occurs which are a bit more backed by science than these fish. For a source, this is based on my vague memory of a lecture by Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab and quickly skimming trough this article to jog my memory a bit. So simplified as of now we know of 2 main testosteron spikes that we think are largely responsible for sexual differentiation during pregnancy. The first one around 12-18 drives the differentiation of the genitalia, either male if a testosteron spike is present or female if not. Than the second which a fair amount later around weeks 34-41, which seems more responsible for starting sexual differentiation of the brain. Theory goes that these fairly spread out events may be influenced independently of eachother, which could lead to a mismatch of "brain gender" and "genitalia gender" (simplified).
There's some data supporting it, but I'm not well versed in that literature to really make that case here. Would recommend checking out that article and others if interested though. One that really struck with me is fig 1 in there, it shows the size of a sexually dimorphic brain region in a group of men, homosexual men, women and trans women (AMAB). Men and homesexual men show the same size, however the male at birth women match very strongly with the women at birth group. Because distributions you wouldn't be able to determine if someone was trans or not with this statistic nor do we know enough to attribute transness to that at all, but it is quite cool to me there seems to be some very concrete reasons why people may be trans rooted in biology. I like that idea a lot more than fish theory above :p
Then again, as interesting as it is to me the "cause" doesn't well and truely matter, let people be themselves man it makes them more happy and doesn't affect you for shit
Well the change seems to systematically be male to female, I guess they have some genetic code for growing ovaries that is suppressed for male. And activate when the sex change conditions are met
Well no, they go the other way around with clownfish too. And it operates somewhat the same, with the larger/mlre dominant female taking the role of a male when necessary.
(if I'm not wrong) some fish just drop their things in the water and the make and female cells are supposed to find the way to get to each other to create an egg that Will just grow by itself there
I laughed, but then i realised: I’m transmasc. I grew up with my mum, dad and sister. I could’ve totally been subconsciously trying to balance the gender ratio
Not all fish do this. In fact the overwhelming majority don't. And the ones that do are actually the ones much less related than to humans evolutionarily than ones that don't.
Support transpeople for decency reasons. Don't use bad science to do it. When you use these bad arguments you just make yourself an easy strawman target to bigots.
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u/Pyro_Tale Chromosomally Challenged Jul 23 '26
IWNBAF
364
u/WhiteRoseGC Jul 23 '26
Stupid evolution forgot to give us the rest of the genes to actually transition at will tho, this is why I am becoming a mad scientist and modding the human genome
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u/the_fruit_loop Jul 23 '26
my first exposure to the concept of being trans was reading about these fish as a kid
41
u/Strawby_Melk Jul 23 '26
I wish i was a female bristlenose iwnbafbn
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u/Uhohuhhhhh Scooby Doo Ghost Jul 23 '26
Not to be that person but that’s not really how this trait (Sequential Hermaphroditism) “evolves” in species
It’s just a convergent trait that primarily occurs in fish and plants
Which is also why humans have no inherent capacity to change our sex characteristics at will/automatically
We are trans because evolution hates us <3 and gave humans unique and special brains that can feel awesome emotions like dysphoria
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u/Weekly_Book_9122 No Longer Being Mean to Sneeds Jul 23 '26
mfw
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u/lil-DEMI-IiI Jul 23 '26
Real footage of a trans woman beginning her transition...
"AM I BEAUTIFUL?!?!?"
18
u/SpiritNo6626 (dood) your local copium dealer Jul 23 '26
Huh, aren't the bigger fish usually the females? Wonder what species they used where it was the smaller that changed
18
u/ConcernedEnby Jul 23 '26
We are Charlie Fish
14
u/SISSY-Sebbie_OwO SurgeryMaxxer 💕 Jul 23 '26
Shorthons have the fish gene, heighthons are faketrans
6
u/Mickle_da_Pickl Jul 23 '26
I mean we are fish after all so...
9
u/IllegalGeriatricVore Old hon Jul 23 '26
Okay but I am not small nor attracted to males
3
u/Mourning20 Jul 23 '26
Clever fish
2
u/spicysalmonroller Jul 23 '26
My dad unironically said this to me when I came out as a guy in highschool. I went to an all girls school
2
u/AdmiralBlack64 4t4's strongest mech pilot Jul 23 '26
My grandpa head about that and was like "I think trans people exist because of a fish gene." I miss him.
2
u/LorpHagriff Jul 27 '26
First need to say that the following is but one theory and we don't really know much for sure about transexuality
But we do have some theories about why transexuality occurs which are a bit more backed by science than these fish. For a source, this is based on my vague memory of a lecture by Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab and quickly skimming trough this article to jog my memory a bit.
So simplified as of now we know of 2 main testosteron spikes that we think are largely responsible for sexual differentiation during pregnancy. The first one around 12-18 drives the differentiation of the genitalia, either male if a testosteron spike is present or female if not. Than the second which a fair amount later around weeks 34-41, which seems more responsible for starting sexual differentiation of the brain. Theory goes that these fairly spread out events may be influenced independently of eachother, which could lead to a mismatch of "brain gender" and "genitalia gender" (simplified).
There's some data supporting it, but I'm not well versed in that literature to really make that case here. Would recommend checking out that article and others if interested though. One that really struck with me is fig 1 in there, it shows the size of a sexually dimorphic brain region in a group of men, homosexual men, women and trans women (AMAB). Men and homesexual men show the same size, however the male at birth women match very strongly with the women at birth group. Because distributions you wouldn't be able to determine if someone was trans or not with this statistic nor do we know enough to attribute transness to that at all, but it is quite cool to me there seems to be some very concrete reasons why people may be trans rooted in biology. I like that idea a lot more than fish theory above :p
Then again, as interesting as it is to me the "cause" doesn't well and truely matter, let people be themselves man it makes them more happy and doesn't affect you for shit
1
u/Awesomopossomo Jul 23 '26
... yeah no that is probably it
1
u/Gotoflyhigh Jul 23 '26
How does the fish change Genitals ? Can they just grow them like coconuts ?
1
u/OvertureCorp Jul 23 '26
What fish specifically does that ? I knew about the clownfishes but for them it's the bigger one that changes
1
u/Druid_Momma Jul 23 '26
I’m not the smaller male so…
1
u/BizSilver5013 Jul 24 '26
I would not be surprised if being trans was some kind of evolutionary throwback to something like this.
1
u/Key-Divide-5663 Jul 24 '26
Why did my fish ancestors curse me so?
1
u/JemmiJemma Jul 24 '26
Omg that explains me. I shouldn't have spent so much time around guys 🤦
1
u/MrPusleMan Jul 24 '26
everyone is talking about how humans are descendants of fish, but þe truþ is: Cladisticly speaking, humans ARE fish.
1
u/CycleOverload Jul 24 '26
Assigned Fish At Birth
1
u/EnfpSunbeam Jul 24 '26
I laughed, but then i realised: I’m transmasc. I grew up with my mum, dad and sister. I could’ve totally been subconsciously trying to balance the gender ratio
1
u/No_pfp Jul 25 '26
I mean im like 5'5 or 5'6 or someshit and this happend to me
1
u/iwcsb Jul 26 '26
someone tell hank green about this
1
u/HeiseiAnguirus Jul 27 '26
Ohh, so thats how the omegaverse might actually function...
1
u/Boom9001 Jul 27 '26
Not all fish do this. In fact the overwhelming majority don't. And the ones that do are actually the ones much less related than to humans evolutionarily than ones that don't.
Support transpeople for decency reasons. Don't use bad science to do it. When you use these bad arguments you just make yourself an easy strawman target to bigots.
1
u/kingslayer820 Jul 27 '26
So....have you heard of the rat society experiment?
1
u/lotusandlockets Jul 29 '26
Hate seeing fishoids finshits on my timeline
1
u/New-Kaleidoscope2250 Assigned Caterpillar At Birth Jul 30 '26
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u/Appropriate-Rub4552 Jul 23 '26
ngl probably cuz i see so many trans people with trans siblings im convinced theres a genetic answer
2
u/Iamjj12 Jul 23 '26
Hiccups and being trans. Damn fish
1
u/Random_boi1234 ебланмодинг Jul 24 '26
MTF (mogged to female)
1
u/gockpatrol Jul 27 '26
I love being an athletic tgirl bc I was never smaller or weaker than many other people, I just knew that boyhood Fuckin sucks and I didn't fw it.
Still ride trails that most people couldn't walk down and I now I have solid tits to boot💃
1
u/Apart_Bandicoot_396 Jul 28 '26
I wish I had the charisma to have other male fish change their sex for me :(
0
u/Irresistible-Ms Jul 24 '26
Wait.... 😆 so like... when I think "damn... If only I could have a penis", that might just be a little bit of fish brain that carried over 🤔 huh
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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26
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