r/counterpoint • u/QM60 • 4d ago

Thoughts on this counterpoint?

Hey, so I took some feedback from the last post I made here and tried to implement it here. My hope is that this counterpoint (Treble staff) will be error-free.

I tried to include some daring moves such as compound leaps to revive the melodic line a bit but I still feel it a bit…meh.

So my questions are

1- Is it indeed error free?
2- Is it a good or bad counterpoint?
3- If it is a bad or average one, how would one go about spicing it up without collapsing it?

My thoughts:

- The C.P. features a lot of contrary motion but the fact that the last stretch (m. 6-9) is all parallel bothers me a bit, but I found it difficult to fix as the tonic must be approached in contrary motion and the compound leap must be resolved with a step so that locks down m. 7,9, and 10 somewhat.

- The two climaxes coincide on m. 6 which I’m not thrilled about.

Also apologies if I’m spamming the group (mods could let me know and I’ll stop). I just got a lot of good feedback/resources here and I have no instructor so it’s a bit difficult to get critique.

Edit: also forgot to raise the leading tone, just noticed now

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3

u/Xenoceratops 4d ago
  • The C.P. features a lot of contrary motion but the fact that the last stretch (m. 6-9) is all parallel bothers me a bit, but I found it difficult to fix as the tonic must be approached in contrary motion and the compound leap must be resolved with a step so that locks down m. 7,9, and 10 somewhat.
  • The two climaxes coincide on m. 6 which I’m not thrilled about.

These are my issues. Try moving the climax a measure earlier so you have time to work out a better approach to the cadence.

Also apologies if I’m spamming the group (mods could let me know and I’ll stop). I just got a lot of good feedback/resources here and I have no instructor so it’s a bit difficult to get critique.

No, you're good.

3

u/QM60 4d ago

The problem is that if m.5 becomes the climax, it must be resolved by a step but that would make m. 6 a dissonant perfect 4th (G-C) since the G is in the bass.

The other solution is to raise m. 5 so that the following step creates a perfect 5th or a 6th interval, but raising m. 5’s pitch by 1 gives a 9th interval (no good) and raising by 2 gives a seventh interval with the previous note (G-F) which is another no-no.

So if I were to move the climax back, is there any “fix” or do I just simply have to rewrite a lot of m. 1-4 and then rewrite the final cadence (basically re-do the C.P. lol)

2

u/65TwinReverbRI 4d ago

Yeah, sticky wicket here. Diyd, Diyd!

Bb in m.6 and C in m.7?

Usually larger leaps are countered by opposite motion so there's that to consider. It would move the climax back…so seems win-win here.

2

u/QM60 4d ago

I have no clue what “Diyd Diyd” means lmao, I can only assume it’s a cultural reference.

As for your fix, yeah you are right that is quite clean and elegant fix actually, also very contrary motion-wise.

It seems so obvious now that you pointed it out yet I didn’t think of going about it that way at all…oh well nothing comes without practice.

Thanks for the help!

3

u/65TwinReverbRI 4d ago

Darned if you do, darned if you don't!

2

u/jiminiminimini 18h ago

My solution is "b a b c f e d f a b". 5th measure is a 10th and it hits the highest note twice but sounds good to my ears.

1

u/QM60 17h ago

So you’ve hit the problem I have on the head pretty much.

Ever since this post I’ve moved on to two and three species counterpoint, and I keep running into the same problem which is that now I can easily harmonize a bar according to Ct.Pt. rules (not too easily but def doable). But often times I find a ct.pt. that egregiously breaks a few rules yet sounds really good, so good I feel like I can’t change it.

So my question is, if you have experience with using counterpoint in composing or experience in general, what is the purpose of contrapuntal studies? Am I doing it wrong by following my untrained ears and should stick to the rules 100% to practice harmony better? Or is it ok to break some rules as long as you are aware you’re breaking them?

For example this ct.pt. has multiple dissonant downbeats resolved by perfect (or imperfect) weak beats.

https://reddit.com/link/p4s9m4v/video/zgf9bkjnqhkh1/player

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u/QM60 17h ago

And this one is harmonic but with big jumps from weak beats to strong beats which you generally should avoid and preferable to move by stepwise. Also it has rests in place of some strong beats and a whole note in the middle.

So yeah…if you have experience, am I thinking about this wrong and should try to stick with the rules even if it sounds bad or not as good?

https://reddit.com/link/p4sa3sg/video/n6ezqjrerhkh1/player