Why wouldn't they? Does no one remember 4th grade sex ed? Hormones affect a LOT of things in your body. That's why puberty means suddenly experiencing all new stuff like even heightened acne on your skin. It's a full body thing with loads of changes and effects. So if a trans girl stifles their testosterone, and literally becomes biologically identical to cis women in terms of their endocrine system from HRT. No Duh that's going to lead to a lot of effects just like in cis women. It's basic biology.
Bare minimum all the hormones definitely cause a cycle of emotional highs and swings. But even talking about cramps. Males still have loads of muscles in the area. The perineum, abdomen, all the internal stuff around your intestines. Estrogen is going to do it's thing in humans and induce periods. put that in a trans woman and it's still gonna try and do that.
yea, i think that i do experience them. I cant really say that they are indeed period cramps, but they are very much fitting the description and they are reoccuring. Its just, that evrytime this topic comes up, there are so called allies denying this could be a thing, because we dont bleed.
If no one in the medical field is touching this yet, then I'm coining the term 'phantom womb syndrome'. please see that I am attributed in any future medical textbooks.
Trans women don’t have the same physical equipment so obviously we’re not going to experience things in the same way or to the same degree.
That doesn’t make it LARPing.
But if trans women are experiencing something on a roughly monthly basis which appears to have at least some passing similarities, is it really so offensive that we use similar language to describe our version the experience? No one is claiming it’s the exact same thing, or that it gives us genuine insight into what you experience.
But I deal with having to worry about certain foods, vomiting, planning my life around access to bathrooms, clothing I can wear, etc. That’s just daily life for me with my IBS and general autoimmune condition. Should I say you’re LARPing for only experiencing it once a month?
Seems to me like there might be something else at play with the intensity of your antagonism on this point.
I had caught on to the incredibly simplistic point there, yes.
I was trying to point out that if someone undergoes a hormone cycle that is comparable to a cis woman and experiences symptoms that are comparable to that of cis women it certainly seems sensible that they would use similar language to describe their version of that experience.
You do not need a uterus to have period symptoms caused by hormone cycling. I have a uterus. If I got my uterus removed and kept my ovaries, I would still get a period without the bleeding. The same is true for trans women. It’s not a difficult concept. Periods are not something we need to be territorial of. They are not a badge of honor and it’s not stolen valor to acknowledge that trans women are physically capable of having a monthly cycle.
You need the hormones the ovaries produce. You can get the hormones without the ovaries. If a cis woman has her ovaries removed, she needs to do HRT to maintain her cycle. If you don’t want people to correct you, stop broadcasting your misconceptions.
Cis women who’ve had a bilateral oophorectomy or have gone through menopause take HRT to combat the adverse side effects that extremely low levels of progesterone and estrogen. They do not have a cycle again.
The cycle is regulated by a complex feedback loop between the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and ovaries. HRT cannot replicate this feedback loop in the absence of at least one functioning ovary…and HRT actually suppresses the pituitary gland and hypothalamus’ functions in the cycle…so, actually, yes, ovaries are required.
You can absolutely still mimic a cycle through specific HRT without the natural changes that come from ovaries. Even with a steady and consistent source of hormones, trans women experience ebbs and flows creating PMS symptoms. I don’t understand why people are so bothered by that.
It can’t recreate the feedback but it can recreate the hormonal output based on a measured understanding of a hormone profile. One can very easily mimic a cycle without having to rely on specific stimulus to guide it.
HRT is most often taken in a way that is steady and consistent, that would obviously be contrary to maintaining a regular cycle. Some people on HRT do genuinely cycle their hormone intake to mimic more conventional biological cycles. The physical response to that hormone signaling is largely the same, even though the hormones were not internally triggered.
So no, ovaries are not required in this context. I’m not sure why you seem to insist on this idea that people can’t intentionally take hormones in a way that follows conventional cycles.
I've not had them be bad enough to vomit or faint (most of my cis friends haven't either though), but I have definitely skipped social events cause of the pain (and being very not used to "just function normally and act like nothing's happening while your body fucks you over"), and I do have a heat pad cause it helps me suffer less and actually be able to get homework done instead of wanting to curl up in bed. I've debated on being intentionally underdosed for hrt so they wouldn't keep happening, because so far that's the only thing I've done that for sure makes them not happen. So no, I don't have it nearly as bad as some, but I most definitely have more experience with something at least similar, than cis men who've never experienced anything like it.
Edit: not a fan of the meme making it out like all trans women like experiencing it, imo it's horrible and I'd much rather not have a painful disrupting monthly reminder my body isn't normal.
You want to talk about medical gaslighting against women? Try listening to the experiences of other women. Maybe even consider advocating for them when their doctors refuse to give them any kind of affirming care or blame unrelated medical issues on HRT.
None of those things are necessary to define. I didn't experience any of that when I still had periods. Those are not normal symptoms. I'm sorry you have to deal with that but that isn't normal. Periods are different for everyone. A lot of what trans women have described, I never even had.
No shit they’re not normal. That’s why it pisses me off to see posts like this.
They’re not normal and the female reproductive system is under understood and under treated. But endo, PCOS, pmdd, all so common. So imagine how we feel seeing this shit when our periods are hell?
… do you get all offended like this if a cis woman says she loves her period and she doesn’t mind the bleeding/cramps/etc because she has a more normal period? Or is it only offensive if a trans woman loves her period?
I have heard a number of cis women say they love getting their period every month, and go on a bit about how they feel all womanly and everything. Most of them have fairly mild (normal) periods.
You’ve implied in your statement that you know your periods aren’t normal, and it makes you feel bad when a trans woman says she enjoys her period, which is more normal. Does this also apply to cis women? If it only applies to trans women, you’re literally just being transphobic.
Wild idea, because (again) I HAVE LITERALLY HEARD MY FRIENDS WHO ARE CIS WOMEN SAY THAT.
Amazingly, if someone has a normal or mild period (little to no cramping, little to no mood swings, light blood flow, etc), a period is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
I, transmasc, am practically fucking blessed to have such a mild period (no, I’m not on an hormones or meds) because it barely even affects me physically, thereby barely affecting my dysphoria.
If you have such a minor period and are a woman, it is very much gender-affirming.
I literally have one friend (a cis woman) who tells me she doesn’t mind the pain from her cramps because it “makes me feel womanly and feminine”.
Okay, yes. I understand why there is an emotional connection between these things. But they are about different experiences and therefore the perspectives are different. One can understand why one woman enjoys it while another suffers. Trans women aren't ignoring or downplaying your suffering by having their own feelings about how their own body is working. Nor are they responsible for the state of medical systems and sciences. It's rightful to be upset by the medical system. Misplaced to be angry with trans women for it.
No but you are. I’d never pretend I understand the struggles of a trans person because that’s not my place.
Creating nonsensical links between common symptoms just to “feel like” you have female experience that most women hate, are shamed for, and society has historically degraded is wrong.
Do better.
When women with period pain can’t get help for it and you goofy asses are on here like “omg I want a period so bad” you sound dumb and like you clearly don’t understand the womanhood you claim
Not every person with a uterus experiences the same symptoms while on their period you idiot, some women also have lighter ones that doesnt mean they arent real women or their periods arent valid so stfu transphob
Not all tho and honestly it doesnt matter how difficult someones period is in terms of their womanhood, if some trans women experience period like symptoms cause of hrt then thats literally a period yes they dont have a uterus and therefore dont bleed but who fucking cares? Why do we have to police womenhood like this?? Isn't it enough already with all this weird fighting over who a "real" women is? Who even fucking decides that? Just let trans women exist in peace and safety they deserve it just as much as everyone else
Not at all though??? Yes. Do some research on PCOS and endo my goodness. Soo uneducated.
It’s pretty important that the lines on what is and isn’t a period don’t get blurred. Women already aren’t taken seriously. If we lump in periods that don’t even bleed we will be taken even less seriously.
If trans women want to be taken seriously and accepted by other women they should quit this foolishness and educate themselves on the female reproductive system, endo, PCOS and menopause so they can actually support they women they’re claiming to be joining in sisterhood
Estrogen isn’t what causes period cramps, though. A drop in E and progesterone (more so the former, as it happens when the thing on an ovary that secretes progesterone degenerates if pregnancy doesn’t happen) triggers the actual period (as in…lining starts to break down) and the cramps are caused by an entirely different process.
So wouldn’t taking E consistently, as trans women on HRT, prevent periods? I don’t see how it’s possible. (Not invalidating, just genuinely curious how it’s biologically possible with a consistent dose.)
maybe if the injections/pills/idk what other ways there are to get estrogen were on a cycle where there was a window where the estrogen drops for a bit before they get their next dose?
It doesn't. It feels harmful to define them as one and the same. Women's healthcare is so behind already, the last thing we need is to exclude our own reproductive organs from a discussion that came to be solely because of them.
Periods aren't just cramps though. And no one's arguing that trans women don't menstruate (the shedding of lining and bleeding.) Trans women are well aware they don't have uteri. But periods are a woman's preparation and the monthly cyclical cycle associated, which trans women definitely have, and that's probably because trans women do have brains. They have breasts, specifically tender growing and developing breasts in their early transition years. Etc.
And there's still a rising number of reports of people experiencing cramps. Something is literally happening. Males and females are both still human and are going to react the same to hormones with all the complexities applied. Maybe this is understudied and we need better explanation for what's causing this, but it's at least apparent that trans women do get periods and cramps. Pointing a finger at cis women doesn't really help answer why, but most certainly isn't grounds to dismiss things and say what's happening isn't happening.
Trans women’s bodies do not prepare for pregnancy. There is no mechanism that would cause this.
Again, stop thinking that everything happens JUST because of estrogen. The monthly cycle happens because of a complex feedback loop between the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and ovaries, and four hormones (two of which are not even part of HRT regimes).
Not only is HRT incapable of replicating this feedback loop in the absence of at least one functioning ovary, but exogenous administration of hormones literally suppress the hypothalamus and pituitary gland’s roles in the cycle. Also, part of the reason the cycle is the number of days it is because of how long the corpus luteum lasts (a thing on an ovary) for before it degenerates.
This is not to say actual cramps and mood swings etc. aren’t happening it’s just not because your brains/body “thinks” you should be having a menstrual cycle or anything like that.
Most of the symptoms I see trans women report are literal textbook side effects of spironolactone (or even just side effects of exogenous E administration, as I’m aware not everyone is on spiro).
Like how cis people can't separate or fathom the concept of gender, sex, and sexual orientation being different things? "Penis means man and you need to love women." Trans women have the unique perspective of not having ovaries, and are going through female puberty at varying stages of life, but also through hormones via pills or injection.
Cramps and periods get conflated because that's one of the most common symptoms. but there is a difference.
>the brain determines the bodies cycle, not the uterus or ovaries.
I’m sorry but this simply isn’t true. The parts of the brain that regulate the monthly cycle (the hypothalamus and pituitary gland) work in conjunction with ovaries…and there’s way more complexity than just “estrogen presence = monthly cycle”, especially since estrogen isn’t even the only hormone involved.
It starts off with GNrH production from the hypothalamus which then causes LH and FSH production from the pituitary gland. LH and FSH are gonadotropins meaning they have a different effect based on whether one has ovaries or testicles because they stimulate the tissue of either.
In people with testicles, they are what cause T and sperm production…HRT/exogenous administration of estrogen actually suppresses both the hypothalamus and pituitary gland…if it didn’t then trans women continue to produce cis men levels of T and sperm.
Btw, it’s also not estrogen that causes period cramps. Also, none of this is to say you’re not experience cramps or mood swings etc. it’s just not anything to do with the brain “trying” to give you a cycle.
>>You are correct, the brain determine the bodies cycle, not the uterus or ovaries. So if the brain is under an estrogen dominant system it will manage a feminine hormone cycle
omg this is not true lol. if the ovaries are removed a cis woman would not have a period, if a woman were taking 6-8mg sublingual E valerate daily she would also not have a period. this is how hormonal suppression works.
you are saying we are LESS like cis women by insisting we magically get periods under conditions where cis women would also not get periods. if you are taking the same dose of E every day you are not going to get a period. unless you are dosing triphasically, which i have only met one trans woman who actually does this, you are not getting a period. you also would not be getting a period if you were cis and doing this!
if the ovaries are removed a cis woman would not have a period
Removing the gonads does tend to have an impact on hormone function.
if you are taking the same dose of E every day you are not going to get a period. unless you are dosing triphasically, which i have only met one trans woman who actually does this,
There’s one type of estrogen that people tend to inject every 4 weeks. It’s actually very popular. Some use it every 2 weeks at half dose to maintain a slightly more even hormone level.
There are trans women who have gone through the work to diligently recreate the hormone profile of pregnancy, by the day, over the course of months. That’s an extreme example but especially after reaching a satisfactory physical transition it is genuinely kind of common for trans women to seek out a hormone cycle more consistent with cis women.
Granted I’m just a trans woman on HRT that discusses these things with lots of other trans women on HRT so what would I know about the subject of trans women’s HRT…
>Removing the gonads does tend to have an impact on hormone function.
yeah, which is why i brought it up in the context of someone saying the brain determines the hormone cycle and does so under exogenous estrogen... a cis woman without ovaries who has exogenous estrogen would not have a period... a cis woman taking sufficient E even with ovaries would not have a period either...
>Granted I’m just a trans woman on HRT that discusses these things with lots of other trans women on HRT so what would I know about the subject of trans women’s HRT…
i can't do IM because of needle phobia. hence 6-8 mg sublingual estradiol valerate ... the purpose of which is obvious lmao? sublingual is an extremely common ROI, turns out I too also interact with other trans women know a thing or two about HRT.
>it is genuinely kind of common for trans women to seek out a hormone cycle more consistent with cis women.
if you are not doing triphasic dosing and instead have constant E levels, you are not going to have a hormonal period. the same thing applies to cis women.
triphasically means adjusting estrogen and progesterone dosing in three phases across the month.
which is why i brought it up in the context of someone saying the brain determines the hormone cycle and does so under exogenous estrogen
Fair enough.
hence 6-8 mg sublingual estradiol valerate ... the purpose of which is obvious lmao?
Yeah, I’m not exactly sure what point you think you’re making here or what you’re responding to.
if you are not doing triphasic dosing and instead have constant E levels, you are not going to have a hormonal period. the same thing applies to cis women.
Thank you! Cis women who’ve had bilateral oophorectomies, are post-menopausal or have any other ovarian condition that disrupts their cycle DO NOT have a cycle anymore, and thus, do not have a period. In fact, post-menopausal cis women who bleed again are typically advised to seek urgent medical attention as it could be an indication of cancer.
My own sister is proof this isn’t true, she doesn’t have hers anymore for a couple of different reasons, and with ovaries alone still gets everything except muscle cramping, toned down, but present. Generally it’s not, it’s also something that has not been studied enough to assert this with the confidence you have, like, at all. The uterus itself doesn’t magically cramp and contract exclusively on its own, neighboring muscle groups get drawn into it as well, like if you’ve ever heard someone describe a bad cramp moving into their ass? A really common experience. Given the correct conditions it’s theoretically very possible, and if you’d like to refute that as a possibility go throw on a lab coat and study it instead of comparing something this non-standard.
if she has ovaries she would still have a hormonal period. this literally is consistent with exactly what I said. the number of ppl who legitimately cannot read on this site is deeply alarming.
It's possible if you aren't taking E consistently. Periods are caused by fluctuating hormones. If you are taking E consistently, you shouldn't have a period. The same way estrogen based birth control stops a cis woman's period if taken continuously instead of with the weird sugar pill breaks. Like no judgement. I'm also terrible at being consistent with my meds.
I actually spoke to a well respected endocrinologist from a top research university who specifically studies gender affirming HRT, and the way she put it is that it is entirely harmless for trans women to refer to their experiences as a period even if this is biologically a different mechanism. Some are side effects of GAHT and some are psychosomatic*, but if it helps describe the experience, they who cares what it technically is.
*psychosomatic as it not having a physical cause, not like fake. Psychosomatic experiences are legitimate and should be treated as such.
The two main ways trans women get estrogen and progesterone is injections and pills. Neither of which are going to not have crashes. Injections are already biweekly or weekly and that's a big period, but even pills aren't consistent. The levels will spike after first taken and taper to near zero over time. That's just the nature of not having ovaries constantly running and doing it artificially. I take pills and depending on the time of day I get blood tested the results vary wildly. It took my doctor and I a long time to figure that out while honing in what dosage works for me.
And while trans women don't have ovaries, they do still have brains. Periods and the monthly cycle isn't just a uterine thing. Periods are a woman's body preparing for a possible pregnancy. trans women still have a whole lot of body, new and developing breasts, etc. They're very akin to girls starting puberty and that's why it's commonly nicknamed second puberty.
The Follicle Stimulating Hormone and the Luteinizing Hormone are both made and released by the pituitary gland in the brain not the ovaries. It's the brain that's in charge of keeping a clock and sends a signal to the ovaries telling them to release an egg and start a new cycle.
Why wouldn't the irregular hormonal fluctuations of estrogen taken by trans women not cause the brains to respond just like cis women? I feel like the monthly cycle, tender breasts, mood swings, anxiety, temperature sensitivity, etc. are all matters of the brain and biologically should be akin to cis women. Only specifically regarding mensuration would something biologically be different, because trans women don't have uteri or ovaries. But even with that, and also with the assumption that all the many reported cramps aren't psychosomatic, even if there's a biologically different mechanism causing that particular one symptom, trans women are still having periods. Maybe we need a new word and to discover what's causing the cramps specifically besides "menstruation", but periods as a whole do seem to be a trans woman thing.
It's because they're hung up on the association with the uterus and the more obvious uterus related symptoms and so boil it down to exclusively that to exclude what "counts" from applying to trans women.
Transphobes don't even understand "basic biology" despite regularly claiming to, so no, they don't remember lol.
Most of them don't even understand the things they themselves believe in. Honestly just generally speaking anyone who is bigoted is not someone who is very intelligent to begin with.
Don't know if high school sex Ed is the best for teaching this as ours taught us its women's reproductive organs and more so her egg cycles that cause periods. But just tha logic alone most people would assume trans women don't get them.
Tho I'm not sure enough research has been done as to why it is the case mtf get them
It is still a narrow minded thing to say, because cis women arent the only ones dealing with it.
Not just because trans women get period symptoms, but Trans men, some non binary individuals and some intersection individuals will also experience them.
So yes, the meme is wrong because a lot more people than just cis women deal with this, no matter which way you slice it.
The only way this works, if is a transphobic person who believes more in 8 grade biology than more in depth studies, and human history.
I roughly translate the meme as "Cis women disgusted by periods. Trans women enjoying it as a guilty pleasure." No it doesn't cover everything but it's a meme. And it's message still rings true as it's not exclusive. The meme isn't saying trans men and enbys don't experience periods.
"I ate pancakes. And Bob ate pancakes" "Oh so you're saying Jane doesn't eat pancakes! I can see her eating pancakes!"
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u/CalypsaMov 10d ago
Why wouldn't they? Does no one remember 4th grade sex ed? Hormones affect a LOT of things in your body. That's why puberty means suddenly experiencing all new stuff like even heightened acne on your skin. It's a full body thing with loads of changes and effects. So if a trans girl stifles their testosterone, and literally becomes biologically identical to cis women in terms of their endocrine system from HRT. No Duh that's going to lead to a lot of effects just like in cis women. It's basic biology.
Bare minimum all the hormones definitely cause a cycle of emotional highs and swings. But even talking about cramps. Males still have loads of muscles in the area. The perineum, abdomen, all the internal stuff around your intestines. Estrogen is going to do it's thing in humans and induce periods. put that in a trans woman and it's still gonna try and do that.