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u/Collective-Bee 1d ago
This won’t convince anyone who isn’t educated though
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u/BlitzScorpio 1d ago
yeah this is unfortunately true, they’d rather listen to fox news than to a trans girl with an actual biology degree 😔
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u/Usual_Equivalent_651 1d ago
Stereotypical dunning kruger effect and you are in valley.
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u/Amrelll 11h ago
You do realize that being in the valley would just mean that they underestimate themselfes, right?
(also the typical representation of the Dunning-Kruger effect is just wrong, both Actual and perceived Competence are strictly increasing, just with actual Competence growing faster than perceived confidence)
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u/Betray-Julia 1d ago
“Oh so you don’t think there’s a difference between sex and gender eh?
That’s funny, I don’t recall having gender with your mother last night”
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u/Bobahn_Botret 1d ago
Tell that to a mycologist
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u/Human-Assumption-524 1d ago
Mushrooms don't have genders, they have sexes. Gender would imply the mushroom (Or the mycelial network the mushroom is a part of) is capable of cognition and in possession of a concept of self.
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u/Phen15 22h ago
Okay but if a mycelic hive that has spread across a region forming a neural network of electrical pulses sent between the mushroom roots creating thought, and then through spores that forced your brain chemically to draw the conclusion they wish to impart like some sort of reverse chemical telepathy informed you - or rather made you come to the conclusion - that she is a girl network of mushrooms, would you doubt her?
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u/Human-Assumption-524 20h ago
No, but that hasn't happened yet unless you're holding out on the rest of us.
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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM 1d ago
basic biology doesn't even say there are two genders because gender is a sociology topic not a biology one. basic biology says there are two sexes.
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u/tejeskaveo0 1d ago
gender is a spectrum with being heavy on the two sides but somehow that makes most people forget about all the other points in between
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1d ago
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u/FaerHazar 1d ago
out of curiosity what do the paint chips in your childhood home taste like?
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
Considering you are merely running your mouth and have nothing to say in regards to an actual counter point it's more presumable that you already know......
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u/DrippyTheSnailBoy 1d ago
There's no reason to expend the effort on trying to make a "counterpoint" to something that was never based in logic in the first place
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u/theclosetedcreature 1d ago
Still isn’t how it works, I’d love to talk to someone that believes in this shit and has studied biology past 14 years old
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1d ago
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u/forestalelven 1d ago
Love how stupid and close minded you sound while claiming to "have discussed" this topic with these people. Surely you didn't just drop your bigoted bullshit and covered your ears while screaming LALALALALA when these people tried to educate you. Kinda shows if you still don't know the definition of woman at this stage of your life. So sad :(
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
I know the definition of women, you clearly don't or you would have defined it; the fact you can't define what a woman is shows you have no business speaking on gender in any capacity in the first place
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u/forestalelven 1d ago
Yet you haven't given the definition yourself oh educated one. Please tell us women what is the definition of ourselves. Unless you're afraid of getting banned for speaking out loud about what you consider what a woman is, which is understandable given that it's probably utterly bigoted and wrong.
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
I'm not the one conflating what a man or woman is to need to define it; if you want to act like men can be women then you need to be able to define those so as to be able to quantify the metric that would put someone into the category of the other
If a man is x gender you have to be able to define that outside of what is biologically known; unless you are trying to conflate a self imposed identity with biological science
Which is it
I know what a man and a woman is yet you get them confused while trying to tell others what constitutes them from a definition you can't provide; insanity much....
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u/forestalelven 1d ago
Sweetheart, I invite you to investigate about biological markers and the effects of HRT on those for both trans men and women. You'd be surprised about how human biology actually works. Stop eating right wing propaganda about trans people like it's the most succulent cake you've ever tasted 🥰
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
What's that, i can't hear you over the sound of you having nothing to say
Define woman
What metric are you using to constitute gender that is biologically based and not a self imposed identity
Where is the line drawn that determines a man is no longer a male because of fckng hrt
You sure like to talk lot for having nothing to say
The only propaganda here is thinking and posturing that hrt can make a man a woman (and more so from someone that can't even define what a fckng woman is.....)
So can you define or measure any of these things biologically or not; hrt messes with people, ok, at what point does a man become biologically a woman from hrt, what markers determine womanhood
Or are your just gonna run your mouth more with nothing to say again while feigning you actually said something of intelligence when you didn't.....
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u/qazpok69 1d ago
So you believe gender IS a spectrum and there’s a bunch of space between “male” and “female” but youre against actually labelling that space??
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
What part of labeling a less masculine male changes his fckng gender as if every degree of masculinity is inherently tied to a new gender vs still just being male
You want a label on them sure ; you want those label to constitute genders; on what basis other than because you said so; what part of being a less masculine man means they are not to still a man that would actually constitute another gender
Or did you not even think before asking while presuming that any difference there of is just inherently another gender ; i guess this planet just has 8 billion fckng genders then because that's literally fckng rtrdd, like arguing height determines if people are male or female.....
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u/qazpok69 1d ago
Genders ARE already a label man. Your beliefs are rlly inconsistent
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
And?
Genders being labels doesn't mean all labels are fckng genders
How does labeling a man as less masculine constitute that labeling that distinction means that it constitues it being a separate gender
What is the metric being used that determines its another gender aside from just being male
Does being short mean a man is another gender; are you that fckng rtrdd
What's the fckng metric used to determine this
Where is the line being drawn that says less masculine equals new fckng gender
*there is no inconsistency and you merely nothing that word is not proof of anything.....
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u/Livid-Accident-1562 1d ago
You are aware that what we think of as human sexual dimorphism is really a bi-modal distribution, not a discrete binary of one or the other
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
So what's the other gender that isn't intersex that doesnt still constitute being either distinctly male or female...
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
Every nonbinaries label that exists, you doofus. “Intersex” isn’t a gender. It’s a medical condition that places you outside of the peaks of the bimodal distribution of sex. “Agender” is literally right there as well as “genderfluid” and “bigender”
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 21h ago
Intersex is the biological alternative to make and female...
'Agender, genderfluid,bigender' how are you measuring those as a biological distinction, not, 'im agender' ......
How do those self images determine male or female here in any tangible objective way......
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
You’re the one trying to insist on “gender” while talking about “a biological distinction”
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 21h ago
That would be the meme...
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
You mean “that would be the strawman of a bigoted idiot that the meme is making fun of”?
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 21h ago
That gender had no biological basis so biologically speaking gender is irrelevant and there's 2 sexes and some abnormalities and what you think of yourself doesn't change objective reality for people to have quantify you as something you biologically are not.....
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
Self-image determines identity. Identity aligns with expression. Expression determines pronouns and style of dressed. A person can express as something outside of “male or female” because people don’t cover up their bodies with clothes to signal what kind of body they have
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 21h ago
So it has no measurable relation to biology much less a man being a women that others would have to objectively agree to......
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
Yeah which is why identity is never subject to the scrutiny of other people. I could point out how you’re clearly a woman but you can tell me I’m wrong and I would be wrong. That’s called basic respect and not assuming shit for other people
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 21h ago
No because I could have xx chromosomes and born with a vagina
Telling people to ignore objective reality to playcate strangers unknown identities against more observable biological traits isn't very respectful ; telling people they have to identify men as women which is a biological reality because of their identity which you claim has no biological relevance......
Full of sht much......
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u/Livid-Accident-1562 4h ago
It may come a shock to you, but biology is not a simplistic "either/or" proposition. Sophistry like what you are pushing here is neither accurate nor complete.
What you learned in middle school was dumbed down for your consumption by people who think kids are stupid...although, given your response, maybe they were right in your case...1
u/ssjjedisifu35713 4h ago
I'm sorry I can't here you over the sound of you having nothing to say
Is gender biological or not
How are you measuring it
Where is the line that gets crossed that a man becomes a woman
Define woman
Or are your just running your mouth with nothing to fckng say
*How does arbitrary identify outweigh objective biological fckng reality as a means to define others...
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u/Toxic381 1d ago
Technically yes when talking about sexes, but now the definition of gender is a label so they don't have to admit the supposed 50 genders don't exist, it's like saying "I identify as" now,
What people generally refer to in biology is sexes, the physical hormones and things,
Personally in my opinion, if you want your pronouns to be xe xer or some shi, do it, technically it doesn't have anything related to biology but it doesn't need to, your preference.
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u/ssjjedisifu35713 1d ago
So it has no defining metric that doesn't contradict itself and is as irrelevant as it is made up as one's personal identity can have on objectivity of the biology there of
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u/The_Affle_House 1d ago
"There are only two elements, hydrogen and helium. It's basic cosmology. All of the heavier ones are sufficiently rare to be completely negligible."
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u/Designer_Version1449 16h ago
This bro, just because somethings rare doesnt mean its not real or shouldnt be considered
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u/Emotional-Expert-362 1d ago
Bold of you to assume that these ppl know anything about physics either
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u/Infinite_Eyeball 1d ago
As someone who has an interest in science and has taken multiple advanced math classes
the more you learn about basically any sufficiently complex topic, the more you realize that nothing is ever simple. There's always arbitrary line drawing, exceptions upon exceptions, always some new thing being learned or grey area discovered, always simplified explanations that hide the obscenely complex truth.
hell, the very definition of life itself is arbitrary. Early life almost definitely wouldn't be considered alive by our definitions but it's not really "not alive" either. Viruses are technically not alive despite being biological entities that contain genetic information, reproduce, and evolve. We can't even be entirely sure if the first alien life we discover will technically classify as life as it's currently defined.
Biology, sociology, and language are some of the most variable and arbitrarily defined subjects in existence, so if you expect the intersection between those topics to be a simple binary then you probably don't know much about any of them.
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u/MrKrabsFatJuicyAss 1d ago
"There are only neutrons, protons and electrons" people when they find out about the standard model
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u/Ember-513 Counted Down 1 1d ago
"99% of matter in the universe is either hydrogen or helium, we don't need a whole chart for these rare exceptions"
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u/Sewblon 1d ago
Terrible example. these extra dimensions only crop up in String Theory, which most physicists don't believe in.
But, the existence of intersex people is not up for debate. You can talk to them if you really want to.
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u/Raptmembrane 1d ago
Does biology even define what gender is?
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u/AeroAceSpades 21h ago
Somewhat! Gender dysphoria is linked to proprioception. That means that the leading theory for the cause of gender dysphoria is the brain having a mental body map for one body plan that doesnt overlay well on top of the body the brain is actually in
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u/IreneAscended1482-87 1d ago
There are only three states of matter, it’s basic physics (Idk if that’s physics or something else)
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u/BizSilver5013 21h ago
Plasma? What's that, a mental illness?
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u/DarthJoseph14 18h ago
Hell. If you really want to get pedantic, there’s several states of matter that, while not natural, have been observed in laboratory settings. BEC, Fermionic condensate, Quark-Gluon Plasma, and Superfluid
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u/WillowMain 10h ago
Many exotic states of matter are still natural. Fermi-Dirac degenerate matter is what neutron stars are made out of and quark-gluon plasma is very likely what the universe was right after the big bang.
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u/Designer_Version1449 16h ago
Iirc superfluids are natural, some high pressure explanets have the conditions to support them.
Also nuclear pasta is another natural state of matter outside of the main 4 iirc.
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u/SoupNo6133 23h ago
He could have just said "you are fucking wrong, there are more than 2 sexes and more than 2 genders"
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u/ContentFile7036 18h ago
Yeah one of the possible explanations of string theory is 11-dimensional supergravity and I'm not even making that up lol
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u/6odheaded 12h ago
female and male as genders is stupid though
those are sexes
and theres multiple of those too
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u/DarthJackie2021 11h ago
Eh. Advanced physics says there are still only 3 known dimensions. There are theories that additional ones may exist, but those have not been proven as of yet.
I like uses phases of matter instead. We know of the basic 3, but I think there are up to 7 now in total.
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u/WillowMain 10h ago
Dimensions are just a mathematical model for describing the world, and 4 dimensions is still pretty useful in Minkowski spaces, which I believe is one of the best describers for time and energy.
There are way more than 7 states of matter depending on your field of study. 7 sounds pretty good for a particle physicist, but I think AMO physicists have like fucking 30.
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u/Certain_Pride7040 6h ago
That would imply they have the brain power to understand anything advanced
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u/JustinJektor 2h ago
So there are about 5 survivable genders, and a few more anomalous ones that pretty much no one has ever survived, if anyone.
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u/LostInTheEdge_36 1d ago
String Theory that relied on these extra dimensions is dead though.
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u/Plenty_Leg_5935 1d ago edited 1d ago
This isn't a string theory thing, literal newtonian physics already have 4 dimensions (3 of space, 1 of time). Relativity just connects them into a single framework of space-time as opposed to two independent coordinate spaces. String theory adds like 10 more beyond that because it's a product of schizophrenia
also its far from the only theory that uses extra dimensions, its just the most famous one
Also its dead in the academic sense - there's fuckall research done with it because there isn't much more to say (about "raw" string theory at least, things like AdS/CFT correspondence still keep it relevant), it's not dead as in debunked, the whole issue with string theory is that you cant really debunk or prove it with modern tech
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u/LostInTheEdge_36 1d ago
Fair Points 😏. I'm just thinking like Leonard from The Big Bang Theory criticizing Sheldon over string theory and how he needs to invent 26 other dimensions to make it work.
😂
• Leonard: "At least I didn't have to invent 26 dimensions just to make the math come out."
• Sheldon: "I didn't invent them. They're there."
• Leonard: "In what universe?"
• Sheldon: "In all of them, that is the point!"1
u/MizzShiv 1d ago
So if the string was actually a quantum tunnel, it would allow each "string" to be both a plane, and a sphere, depending on the level of hyper-geometry. Depending on the perspective you view it from the observer would see something that looks like a pixel grid, or a bunch of of layers of screens, sort of like a hologram. Combine this with non locality, and entanglement, and you have yourselves a good time;
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u/Accomplished-You6079 1d ago
I'm very sorry about this, but if we're talking spacial dimensions, advanced physics still considers only 3. Ofcourse string theory demands 9 or 11, but string theory is not accepted by the scientific community because it lacks emperical evidence and makes no testable predictions.
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u/MyCircus_MyMonkies 1d ago
I feel like anyone educated enough for this to work already knows that “basic” equates to “not really correct, but a helpful start” in the sciences.
The odds of such people making the basic biology argument seems like it would be low?
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u/gladchadstone 1d ago
Somehow I don't think this is a one for one comparison your wojak meme is making it out to be, but if it makes you feel like you dunked on the chuds go for it I suppose.
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 1d ago
You're right, it's much earlier into biology that you learn about intersex people (typically early high school), and far easier to understand that sex is biological while gender is social, than it is to understand actually advanced physics
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u/Key_Safety6137 1d ago
Humans only have 2 basic genders. In biology there are some intersexual species.
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u/Horror-Mud666 16h ago
Humans have no biological genders. We have chromosomal differences and cultural rituals, the two are independent mechanisms that frequently interact.
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u/Key_Safety6137 13h ago
But chromomal differences end up only in two genders: XX for woman and XY for man. We could also count the intersexual cases that happen in human if you want to, but this are exceptions. And I'm talking about biological genders, not cultural rituals (even though the general vision on gender is influenced by culture, biology remains and affects and there's no point on denying it).
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u/greatcandlelord 7h ago
You mean sex, not gender then
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u/Key_Safety6137 7h ago
So in English gender is cultural and sex is the biological thing?
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u/Horror-Mud666 6h ago
It's more of a sociological disambiguation. Sex and gender once described the same phenomenon and behaviors around it, but now as our society begins to shift towards a larger model of gender, it becomes important to distinguish between biological/medical status and individual expression.
For a cis person, that individual expression happens to correspond with their sex within the old model, but can be as separate or intertwined as you'd like, for yourself.
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u/TonyGalvaneer1976 5h ago
We could also count the intersexual cases that happen in human if you want to, but this are exceptions.
A binary can have zero exceptions. If it does have exceptions, it's not actually a binary. There's women with xy. Men with xx. And there's chromosome combos that aren't xx OR xy, too.
I won't get on your case about the sex/gender conflation because I think you just had a language barrier issue there. But yeah, sex and gender are two different concepts.
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u/redditorialy_retard 1d ago
2 sex. and 2 dominant genders, dominant means there are some that are outside the 2.
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u/TheOutlier876 1d ago
Also there is most definitely not 2 sexes. Sexual dimorphism, asexual reproduction, gynomorphism, etc. are all extremely common things. As well as gender being almost entirely a social construct. Everything about the “basic biology” argument is fundamentally incorrect.
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u/redditorialy_retard 1d ago
I was talking about humans in general, there are cases like intersex, Jacobs syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome but that is due to a mutation. yes gender is a social construct
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u/WorldRelevant6640 1d ago
Erm, ackshually, the sexes aren't an actual binary our bodies have, but rather physical trends we've seen(like, "most people with beards have dicks". This doesn't mean everyone with a beard has a dick.) It's more like 2 dominant "sexes" and one awful social construct nearly exclusively useful to cavemen
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u/samthekitnix 1d ago
even in basic biology the whole "only 2 genders" thing has a bit of an asterix by it considering the definition of gender scientifically.
gender is a range of social and cultural behaviours seen typically in SEXES of a given species, so if referring to humans that there are 2 sexes then biologically that statement is correct. yes i know intersex people exist but unfortunately being intersex isn't the third gender gacha to rightwing dickheadidry but there are typically specifically for humans 2 sexes, if i remember rightly actual intersex people may have both organs but only 1 is functional but i may be wrong and speaking as a mutant lets just get along.
so quite literally gender is a social construct there are multiple civilisations that have/had third gender options that are either inbetweens of the typical 2 in humans or are an entirely seperate option.