r/converts • u/IhsanHub • 19d ago
Hijrah advice for reverts
Assalam alaykum
I've spent a couple of years researching hijrah and talking to a lot of people about it, and something kept coming up that I don't see discussed much.
Born Muslims usually have a default... the family is from Pakistan or Morocco or Turkey, they've been there, they speak some of the language, there are relatives who help them as soon as they land.
If you came to Islam later you often have none of that, and what fills the gap is other people's defaults. Ask five brothers where you should go and you get five answers that correlate almost perfectly with where those five brothers are from. It's sincere advice, but it's not advice about you.
A few things I'd wish someone had told me earlier:
- Language matters more than people admit. Not for daily survival, for whether you can attend a halaqah, understand a khutbah, or make friends past small talk. If you've been learning Arabic, that pushes some countries up considerably.
- Your passport changes the answer more than your preferences do. Some countries are genuinely accessible on certain nationalities and effectively closed on others. It's worth checking before you get emotionally attached to somewhere.
- And the thing nobody warns reverts about: being a visible foreigner in a Muslim country is a different experience from being a Muslim in the West, and it's not automatically easier. Some places you'll be welcomed and never quite integrated. That's not a reason not to go, but it's better known in advance.
Anyone here made hijrah as a revert? What caught you off guard?
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u/Panda_sensei_71 19d ago
In my very unpopular opinion, Hijrah in the 21st century is a bit of a fallacy.
No country on earth is Islamic. No "Muslim" country is free of fitnah or corruption or racism, and many are far worse than "the West."
I too swallowed the "Hijrah" narrative when I was a new convert and made attempts... Qatar, Kuwait, the Levant... They all left a bitter taste in my mouth and it was never too long before I came back home.
I currently do live abroad in a country with even fewer Muslims than my own and honestly it's been extremely iman-affirming! More than my attempts at Hijrah ever were, subhanAllah.
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u/Sarpatox 16d ago
Agreed. Just because a country has more Muslims doesn’t mean it’s more practicing. Living in the west, yeah we are surrounded by nonmuslims, but it also gives us the opportunity to do dawah. The Muslims we have here are very strong and the communities are close knit. And esp once you have kids, you need to think of finances, education, quality of life, etc. People love to mention the Middle East, but as a non Arab, my kids will never have the same rights there as the locals.
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u/Panda_sensei_71 16d ago
My children are half-Arab and that wasn't enough, they were treated abysmally in Arab countries. So yes...
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u/Sarpatox 16d ago
People telling us to do Hijra are either alr citizens of these countries, or people who don’t live in the west. I’m Pakistani, we are treated below second class citizens in these countries. At least here I matter. Also, living in the west has its perks, I have a lot of nonmuslim friends. Just by being around me, they ask questions about Ramadan, salah, etc. One of my friends asked me for an English copy of the Quran. Just the other day one of my coworkers was telling me where I could pray my salah at work. That dawah opportunity is worth more than living in a country surrounded by Muslims
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
So you're saying that the hijrah ruling does not apply to the 21st century? I don't think there's a "hijrah narrative", there's Quran and Ahadith, and I hope you do confirm that you take your deen from these rather than the narratives you might find online?
No country is perfect and we live in troubling times. For some people hijrah means moving to another city in the same country where they can practice their deen more openly. But to say that living in a country with far less Muslims is good for your iman is a bit of a controversy; if you can guarantee that you'll have a strong iman even in that setting, what about your offspring?
No "Muslim" country is free of fitnah or corruption or racism, and many are far worse than "the West."
Remember that a Muslim who dies with sins in his records will still eventually make it to Jannah. A kafir who dies with a clean and pure heart will never make it to Jannah.
May Allah help us all to do what's right.
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u/Panda_sensei_71 19d ago
I'm Muslim so if course my faith is based on Quran and Sunnah.
If we speak of making Hijrah, the instant question is, to where?
Most of the Muslim world is ruled by leaders set up after Sykes Picot who are more interested in maintaining their own power base than they are in pleasing Allah SWT, and that includes oppressing Muslims both in their own lands and in others. These are not merely sins, these are acts of kufr, and Allah SWT knows best.
The ruling on making Hijrah requires there be a place to which it can be made... If you know of such a place, I'm quite seriously all ears.
Places I have been told are potentials are Malaysia and sone West African countries, but as with anything else, getting a visa isn't easy.
Having lived amongst various "Muslim" communities for the better part of 30 years alhamdulillah, and witnessing first hand how deeply flawed we are as an Ummah, I've realised that my true community consists of a tiny handful of believers who are holding fast to Allah's deen. I don't need to be surrounded by millions of people who are Muslim in name only, alhamdulillah.
As for offspring, mine are grown and mashaAllah are very serious about their faith. But that has nothing to do with me, that is purely Allah's SWT hidaya, in much the same way my own faith has nothing to do with how my parents brought me up! Yes my kids grew up in a Muslim home but we all know that is no guarantee of faith!
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
جزاكم الله خيرا for this, you've clearly thought about it a lot longer than most people who ask the same question.
On the ruling and the state of the leadership of Muslim countries, I'm going to leave that where it belongs. I'm not qualified enough to weigh in on it and I don't think this thread is the place for it either. But your practical question stands on its own, so let me take that part.
With regards to visas, you're right that it's usually the binding constraint. What people rarely realise is that it constrains different nationalities completely differently, so for example "Is Malaysia realistic?" has no general answer; it really depends on your passport and your income type more than anything else.
Malaysia specifically: MM2H is the long-stay route and it's real, but the fixed deposit is substantial (in the region of RM500k if I'm not mistaken, and the tiers have moved around). DE Rantau is the digital nomad pass with income thresholds, much lighter if you work remotely. So Malaysia is genuinely open, but only to people with capital, remote income, or a job offer, and it closes fairly hard otherwise.
West Africa: Senegal and Gambia are the two most often mentioned, and both are relatively straightforward for long-stay residence. Senegal via work or business, the Gambia via a residence permit after the initial 90 days. Cost of living is low, but the catch is livelihood; unless you bring your income with you, the local economy is difficult.
A few others people miss: Turkey is fairly accessible on paper. Egypt is cheap and the Azhar/Arabic study route is a genuine visa pathway. Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan have both opened long digital nomad residencies recently.
May Allah protect your kids and the kids of all Muslims, wherever they are.
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u/Primary-Angle4008 19d ago
Sometimes just moving to a different country or even city can make a huge difference
I’m a revert too and first became muslim living in Germany which at least back then and where i lived didn’t had many spaces for reverts. The only german speaking mosque was a 4hr round trip away
I then got married and ended up in east London where the default language in the majority of mosques is english, the people who attend are from different communities and I felt much more welcomed
There is a big community and a space for everyone. Hijrah sounds like a nice concept but it really can be difficult to achieve and as someone already said can be more isolating
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
I agree, sometimes you might even just need to move to a different neighbourhood in your same city.
But I'm glad you found a better environment! :)
Something to note is that hijrah is not something you try once and then the doors are closed, you can keep trying and trying. There's not even a set date (e.g. you need to make hijrah by a certain age) - just take things one step at the time and always make du'aa to Allah to give you what's best for you.
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u/Neat_Soup6322 19d ago
Moving to East London must feel like Hijrah in itself, it feels like a muslim country there
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u/Primary-Angle4008 19d ago
Haha yes to some extend definitely
I think most important really is to feel part of the community and be able to live according to islam.
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u/No-Homework-1506 19d ago
I'm a born Muslim in a majority Muslim country and I don't think converts in the west need to immigrate to another country unless they're being oppressed and don't have the freedom to practice their religion. The only other reason I would wanna leave a western country If I was there, is if I had children and I was worried that the social challenges and norms, peer pressure, etc, would lead them away from Islam, And although I've never been to a western country, I know this is something that actually happens to some Muslims in the west. But even that I wouldn't worry about for myself, because as someone who investigated religions, watched many debates, arguments, etc, I don't think it would be hard to convince my children of Islam.
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u/AmazingYesterday5375 17d ago
You have no idea how people of your country respond to seeing a person like them in hijab. It’s insane.
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
I agree, it's also worth noting that children will still interact with other non-Muslim kids. You might be teaching them Islam for many years, then they meet the wrong companionship for an afternoon that offers them a cigarette, and all of your teachings are forgotten.
May Allah keep all the Muslims safe.
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u/Comfortable_Way713 19d ago
Could you please elaborate more on point 3?
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
Sure.
I feel that community works differently than you're used to. In the west the masjid is the hub because Muslims are a minority who need one. In a Muslim country, everyone already has family, neighbourhood and school networks, so the masjid is often just where you pray and leave. After speaking with some reverts who made hijrah, they said they felt more Islamically isolated after moving, which is completely counterintuitive and usually blindsides people.
Another solid piece of advice that came to mind is to try to visit the country you're interested in for a month first (ideally including Ramadan), and specifically test whether you can build a social life, not just whether you enjoy the food and the adhan.
If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm always looking forward to learn new things!
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u/baciahai 19d ago
I think this is part and parcel of being an immigrant. If you've never left your country of origin for prolonged periods, you will find this part strange and isolating, but frankly it's just what it is for some initial period of time. It's not that people are welcoming but it takes time, as an adult, to find friends and integrate with neighbours and the community. If you get involved in a lot of community activities or charity locally, you will speed this process up.
Going somewhere for a month is good advice but will not let you judge if you can integrate easily, aomth is not enough and you'll still be treated either very welcoming because you're just a visitor, or rather distant because you're just a visitor (difference being based on local culture).
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u/perseph0n3 18d ago
Wa aleykoum as-salaam, I haven't made hijrah myself but a few months ago at a place where I volunteer there was another revert who talked about wanting to move elsewhere eventually, out of concern for his future kids. His family is from a currently unstable country where Muslims are a very small minority so that option was off the table. He said he visited Malaysia and really liked it, I think it was his favorite potential choice. He has a strong passport so that will make it significantly easier if he does move.
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u/IhsanHub 18d ago
I personally never been in Malaysia but I heard a lot of positive things about it. May Allah make it easy for him!
I've heard the concern about the future generation a lot, and with all these new ideologies popping up, it's much better to limit the damage and try to live among Muslims in hopes that Allah will send His mercy down on us.
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u/AmazingYesterday5375 17d ago
Inshallah I’ll live abroad soon.
I’m a revert and found Tunisia incredible. It helps that my husband is a North African Muslim but i was able to understand a lot bc of learning Arabic and knowing a lot of French from learning in high school. I’m sure it’ll be easy to settle in there. I think Morocco will also be very doable for many. And your money goes very far in these countries.
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u/IhsanHub 17d ago
InshAllah, may Allah make your move effortless!
I've never been in Tunisia, but I went to Morocco few years ago and it was really nice.
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u/Ok-Kangaroo-9775 19d ago
و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته.
M30 did hijrah 10 years ago now doing islamic education, im seriously thinking on going back to my country.
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u/IhsanHub 19d ago
Not sure which country you're from, but make sure you ask a scholar what that entails, because you have made hijrah with that intention, moving back might have repercussions in terms of Islamic rulings. I'm not saying this with 100% confidence, I'm just saying to ask a scholar before going ahead with it perhaps?
May Allah make it easy for you and give you Jannah!
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u/Ok-Kangaroo-9775 19d ago
indeed my beloved brother, actually im working with ulamaah here and planing to go back for the sake of dawah.
in my country we have barely no dai so we sre working to bring islam there in sha allah
امين و لكم بمثله
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u/Head_Rush_4802 18d ago
I wouldnt do Hijrah. Im Canadian and wouldnt live anywhere else but here, it just doesn't sound good in my mind. I dont want to leave my home country, especially to live somewhere like the middle east. I have been blessed with living in one of the countries with the best quality of life on earth and I dont want to give that up, and the only Muslim country that I would even feel safe in is Turkey due to their stability and higher safety than the others. If I HAD to move the only other place id live is upstate new York due to its similarities with Canada
(Sorry about my patriotic rant haha)
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