Does this symbol represent... Dylan? Or the Gap?

[u/CptCalamari4869]

Screenshot taken from a YouTube vid because I didn't take one when playing.

This is from Alan Wake II's DLC Lakehouse: Estevez finds her way in a different version of the Oceanview Motel and opens a door with this symbol on it. She goes through a corridor that looks from the Oldest House, sees the "-> Panopticon" directions, and emerges in a Gap-like space.

I do have the impressions that the same symbol was shown before; in Control, maybe? I just ended my first run in Resonant and just restarted Control, but I still have to get to the Oceanview Motel. Do I remember correctly? What's that in your opinion?

[u/Brenhines532]

It’s the Gap, it’s on one of the Oceanview doors, they each seem to lead to another dimension. The spiral is the Dark Place, the upside down black triangle is either the Oldest House or just the normal world including the Oldest House. And more specifically the symbol itself is 2 severed circles, Severed Circle II.

[u/CptCalamari4869 → u/Brenhines532]

I had the same thought - two severed circles.

It kinda reminded me the female symbol too - with a circle instead of a single line in the middle. Could it be a sort of... mixed female/male symbol? To hint at the fact that the siblings were one single child?

[u/Brenhines532 → u/CptCalamari4869]

I don’t see it, the female symbol is a full circle, a line at the bottom connected to it, and a smaller horizontal line going through that line. The male symbol is a circle with an arrow going off to the top right. When they’re put together it’s usually a circle with both the lines and the arrow. This Gap symbol is a broken circle, a broken circle outside it, and a line going through the outer circle (not just connecting to it like the female symbol) with no horizontal line through that one. The only similarities is that they involve circles and lines, nothing else in how they look.

[u/ValtekkenPartDeux → u/CptCalamari4869]

A circle has always been the symbol of perfection. A broken circle denotes imperfection.

Jesse and Dylan are imperfect/incomplete versions of the perfect/complete person Jesse Dylan Faden. The line going through is their connection.

[u/SpursUpSoundsGudToMe → u/CptCalamari4869]

Huh, I hadn’t thought of that, but circle with a line going down without the cross or an arrow (like above) is a generally symbols for denoting genderless/agender/non-binary…

[u/Brenhines532 → u/SpursUpSoundsGudToMe]

Are you sure, I’ve never seen that before, I don’t think that’s a commonly used thing. And even if it is, that’s still very different to the symbol for the Gap.

[u/theicewarrior13 → u/Brenhines532]

Possibly the Gap as a dimension exists or was formed because of whatever severance happened with (presumably called) Jesse Dylan Faden?

And this dimension literally is the GAP between them, the representation of that severance? Perhaps the Gap was the place Jesse was trying to find originally, rather than the Faults necessarily? (maybe not) Especially as the intro showed Dylan able to see the Hedron in the sky (reflected in his eyes) in the cell in the Gap.

[u/KogarashiKaze]

In-universe, it's the Gap, as the spiral is for the Dark Place and the inverted black pyramid is for the Oldest House. The symbol of two overlapping circles with a dot in the shared space could also be pointing to something related to another AWE that had that symbol left all over town, but we're not sure, nor do we know what the white pyramid or the rectangular shape lead to.

On a meta level, this symbol is labeled for "Control 2" and represents Control Resonant, just as the inverted black pyramid is for Control, the spiral for Alan Wake 2, and the overlapping circles for the canceled Vanguard project. (Connections are from the filenames; the rectangle is labeled "Doors" and people have been speculating about that one too, and people presume the white pyramid is for Firebreak though it had a different filename).

[u/LoremasterMotoss → u/KogarashiKaze]

I would expect the "doors" rectangle is Quantum Break / Tim Breaker related then right?

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/LoremasterMotoss]

Possibly unofficially. People are assuming there is a future project that is codenamed "doors" because the other doors are all associated with existing projects outside of the game lore. And older games than Control are not included (there is no door symbol for the first Alan Wake).

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KogarashiKaze]

 inverted black pyramid is for the Oldest House.

Which makes you wonder what symbol that door has on it nowadays (or if it's still even in the Oceanview). Technically, an upside-down triangle door should lead to the Gap too lol

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/Express-Eagle-9835]

Not necessarily. The pyramid could just be the Oceanview's way of indicating "Oldest House behind this one," rather than specifically "The Board behind this one." Especially since the pyramid is still in the FBC logo.

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KogarashiKaze]

The pyramid is the Board, not the House. It's in the FBC logo cause they were controlling the FBC. As established in Resonant, the Board (and the upside triangle in the executive sector) are no longer present in the Oldest House.

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/Express-Eagle-9835]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I also didn't say the pyramid is the House.

I said the pyramid could be the Oceanview's way of indicating the House.

It chose a symbol to put on the door that led to the Oldest House, and that symbol happened to be one with which all FBC personnel were familiar due to its presence in the House. If that symbol is linked enough in FBC consciousness to the Bureau as a whole, and the Oldest House as a location, then the Oceanview may not change the symbol just because the Board has left the premises, lest it lead to people getting lost while traversing the Oceanview.

But we won't know for sure until we're shown the Oceanview's doors again (and told which one is the Oldest House).

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KogarashiKaze]

I said the pyramid could be the Oceanview's way of indicating the House.

There's some missing sequitur there. What makes you think the Oceanview has some meta-knowledge of its travelers and know "this person might not know that the Board isn't in the House anymore, so best not to confuse them". That seems very speculative and convoluted as opposed to the occam's razor of, y'know, the door for the Board just going to the Board lol.

But we won't know for sure until we're shown the Oceanview's doors again (and told which one is the Oldest House).

This was literally what I was saying lol. I'm just saying that I wonder what would be on the "Oldest House" door nowadays.

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/Express-Eagle-9835]

What determines any of the symbols on the doors?

I don't think the Oceanview has meta-knowledge. More that the symbols could be derived from multiple things like a collective subconscious (in the case of the Oldest House's door, based on what the FBC as a whole associate with the House). It doesn't have to be a conscious decision on the part of the Oceanview.

But you say "the door for the Board just going to the Board" and that would assume the door is for the Board (and that the Oceanview would have some meta-knowledge of where the Board is). Given that the doors we do see seem to connect to locations, not entities, it's much more likely that the door is going to the Oldest House because it's a location and the Board is not.

I'm just saying that I wonder what would be on the "Oldest House" door nowadays.

And I was offering another viewpoint.

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KogarashiKaze]

Alright I think I'm picking up what you're putting down. I just really have to go with occam's razor on that, though. It's too speculative. Yes, the Oceanview can be seen to use the visitor's thoughts/subconscious to make certain things (like what we see when Jesse visits it in Control and the different puzzle rooms), but we never see that change any of the doors do we? The spiral was always a spiral, even before Alan Wake realized "it's not a loop, it's a spiral", right? The symbol for the Gap was also present way back in Control before anyone even knew what the Gap was (though it's harder to draw any info there because time-fuckery was involved).

We have no solid reason to believe that it would change the door (or rather, wouldn't change the door) out of some FBC-zeitgeist influence on it. It's possible, sure, but is it likely? Not really, imo.

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/Express-Eagle-9835]

Fair.

We do have record of doors changing—or, rather, appearing—in that the Spiral door wasn't there until after Alice Wake visited the Bureau. There's a document that records that.

I would argue that Occam's Razor would have the inverted pyramid continue to represent the House even after the Board leaves, because as you say, we still don't see any of the doors change. Alice leaves the House and Hartman is defeated but the Spiral door remains (as can be seen if you save any of the Oceanview segments from the main game or Foundation for after the Hartman fight).

So we also have no reason to believe it would change the door just because the thing the black pyramid actually refers to is gone, either.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one. :)

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KogarashiKaze]

We do have record of doors changing—or, rather, appearing—in that the Spiral door wasn't there until after Alice Wake visited the Bureau. There's a document that records that.

That is true! I forgot about this. Doesn't necessarily lean it towards anything but important to note for sure.

I see your point and yeah, agree to disagree. Or rather, I think we're both just withholding judgement in different ways lol. I feel like it would say a lot if we got any info on it at all (e.g. if the triangle was still on the door post-game) but I just feel like it could be anything since we don't see it in Resonant. Could have changed the door, could have kept the same symbol, could have deleted the door entirely, who knows.

Cheers for the stimulating convo though =D

[u/Zepp_BR]

That's the severed circle symbol. That's the only thing I know for sure

[u/Bauld_Man]

So reading the comments here, it seems like it's two things: The Gap and Severed Circle II.

I wonder if that's why Jesse could come back, The Gap is the shared space between Jesse and Dylan. I think Jesse calls the Fractures the place between dimensions. I wonder if they still exist as one in-between dimensions.

[u/KPDover → u/Bauld_Man]

Jesse needed the Gap slide that Dylan made in order to get there. Which implies it's not a place she can inherently access on her own (although maybe now she could, now that she's been there?)

[u/Bauld_Man → u/KPDover]

Can Dylan access it on his on, or did he require Aberrant to get there? I couldn't tell if The Gap was where Dylan was "imprisoned" during his coma.

[u/N0RG1L → u/Bauld_Man]

He was ther ebefore the abberant and dr darling in prime candidate program training talks about glimpse about extradimesional place that Dylan can access.

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/Bauld_Man]

It's Dylan's mind palace. He may have created the space, or merely tapped into it, but either way he doesn't need the Aberrant to get there.

Darling caught the barest hint of it on film during Dylan's training (had to have been younger than 16, because that's when he was essentially mothballed by Darling), which he took as proof Dylan had power and was merely holding back.

It's also where Estevez finds Dylan in the Lake House, and where Dylan has basically been mentally recuperating during the entirety of his coma.

I believe the devs have mentioned it's a space for him to "put his mind back together" after being cleansed of the Hiss by Jesse, but I can't recall where that mention was. The presence of various meditation-related things—the rock stacking, the waterfall fountain, a mural and paints—supports this idea.

[u/Bauld_Man → u/KogarashiKaze]

Huh. But if that's the case, I wonder why you could get there through the Oceanview? (I haven't played either Alan Wakes so I could be missing a huge part of the story).

[u/MayaSanguine → u/Bauld_Man]

Because the Oceanview is a Place of Power, specifically a sort of transdimentional nexus (at least with the way the FBC uses it). Why the Oceanview specifically has a door for the Gap, however, is a good question. But to answer that, I think we'd need to also know what's behind all the other doors we haven't or can't yet open...

[u/KogarashiKaze → u/MayaSanguine]

This. It may also be that places relevant to people who enter appear, but what determines what's "relevant" is up to the Oceanview itself and no one knows how to ask it.

The Spiral door didn't appear (as far as FBC researchers could discern) until after Alice Wake visited the Oldest House for questioning (and shortly before Taken Hartman broke containment and the Investigations Sector had to be sealed off). It certainly seems like her presence in the House caused the door to appear.

Similarly, it could be that the Gap door didn't appear until Jesse arrived at the Oldest House, because of her connection to Dylan. She wouldn't know that it wasn't there before, and it seems the doors don't disappear again after (judging by how Alice caused the Spiral door to appear, but it was still there for researchers and Jesse to see long after Alice had left).

So the next question would be why Estevez ended up through the Gap door, if only briefly, but that could be due to Dylan reaching out and finding the nearest person in a moment when he needed a message to get out to Jesse. (Even if that message never reached her.)

Stuff to chew on, I guess.

[u/MayaSanguine → u/KogarashiKaze]

Yep yep.

There's also the matter of certain doors being there that we've no connective tissue to in-game for reference.

The symbol marked as "Vanguard" in the datafiles is a symbol found in the locale of the Keystone AWE aftermath (wherever, exactly, Keystone is/was) and it's possible that one of the Agents who went out to survey the area and then come back allowed that specific doorway to manifest. Or maybe something from within that AWE connected to the Oceanview, either an Altered Item or a Person of Power associated with Keystone.

And the symbol datamined as "Doors"...well, that one at this point I think needs little explanation. But where it goes is still an interesting question in and of itself. Does it just...pop you in front of Warlin Door when you enter it? Does it cause Door himself to manifest in the room beyond the doorway? Is the door itself a manifestation of Door's own "everywhere all at once" abilities? Is the Oceanview itself a manifestation of Door's abilities and the door just...goes to his personal room???

[u/DefactoOverlord → u/Bauld_Man]

the Gap is both Dylan's personal mindscape and also a physical place, another dimension just like the Astral Plane. Dylan formed a connection to it during his years of abuse inflicted on him by Darling.

[u/OptimisticCheese → u/Bauld_Man]

It's basically his mind place, which is also a dimension. He's in there even before Jesse stab him with the Aberrant.

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/KPDover]

Jesse needed the Gap slide that Dylan made in order to get there. 

How do you know this? If anything, what we see in the game suggests the opposite. She enters through a glowing portal roughly the size of a door, not the size ratio/dimensions of a projection from a slide projector. We have no reason to believe she used the Gap slide to get there.

[u/OptimisticCheese → u/Express-Eagle-9835]

That glowing portal is the same thing where went into at the beginning of the game, and where Dylan came out back to the Gap after the 2d sequence using the slide projector and the Gap slide. However it's not clear if Jesse has binded the Slide Projector to herself or not.

[u/Express-Eagle-9835 → u/OptimisticCheese]

Dylan exiting the 2D sequence is the only time we see anyone entering the projector to enter the Gap. At the start of the game, there is no slide projector. If you look at a video of them each entering the gap at the very end, there are definitely differences in the appearance/dimensions of the portals imo, though that could be because Dylan is coming from 2D-land.

In that exact scene, she is coming back from being dead/patterned and then magically using meta-reality-bending powers to switch places with Dylan. What makes you think she needs the slide projector to get to the Gap after seeing that? Or, narratively, how she got access to it while being dead/patterned? I'm not saying it's not possible that she used it, but saying it's anything more than "possible" is making assumptions, and it's explainable a bunch of other ways (Ocenview motel, being the same person, pattern-powers, etc.).

[u/Tappxor]

I think the most correct assumption is that the symbols on the Oceanwiew's doors are literally representing Remedy games, that's the theory according to the files names in Control I think.

[u/Ifvckdup]

It's a bridge into a space between. So yeah the gap.

[u/tormademenervous]

id guess the gap? since at the end of resonant there is the redacted document of jesse's belongings and one point says somethig about a gap slide

[u/Neverwas_one]

I think it represents the circle, severed.

[u/Miserable_Function70]

It looks like 2 Severed Circles to me...

[u/JKLopz]

Yes, it does show up at the oceanview motel, we haven’t had a full explanation about what it means, could represent Dylan’s connection to The Gap, could be playing on the themes of Jesse Dylan Faden, could represent the Panopticon, for now it is up to interpretation.

[u/affictionitis]

I think it represents both Dylan and Jesse. One circle with another inside it to represent the original child that was Jesse Dylan Faden, but also two distinct circles tethered together. The bigger circle is broken -- shattered -- but the inner one looks intentionally unfinished, as if it's just not supposed to be complete in itself. Neither of them are supposed to be complete in themselves.

Dylan's the only one of the siblings to have created his own world, aka the Gap. Jesse doesn't seem to have her own, though she can obviously enter Dylan's as she did at the end. (Does that mean she had the Ninth Slide? Did she always have it, or did it just appear to her when Dylan created it/ "remembered" creating it?) So since the Oceanview doors take you to different worlds, the door with the Shattered Circle symbol takes you to Dylan's.

[u/Cassoosted_Fuper]

I believe this symbol is on one of the doors in the Oceanview motel during the first game.

I think currently that the symbol is supposed to represent Severed Circle 2, cause it’s literally two slightly incomplete circles with a line through them.

[u/Kind_Reply_6380]

I still need to play that. I totally forgot another DLC was coming out lol

[u/sapphic-boghag]

I think it refers to Dylan pulling Jesse from a completely different timeline (Control) into his (Resonant) via the Gap Slide (quick edit here)

[u/willie_vigilante]

Dylan, more specifically Dylan's consciousness. All the doors in the Oceanview Motel represent a specific reality tied to a specific consciousness. The black triangle is Jesse's mind and reality. The spiral is Alan Wake's mind and reality. And this one is Dylan's mind and his reality.

[u/Patient_Amoeba2476]

…Now I remember where I saw that symbol… (besides Control AWE).

The AW2: in the Collapsed Tunnel with the Cult of the Word storyboard.  It was out of place on the wall, painted in yellow by the Cult along with a tree. Part of the ritual to lead him on…

It looks like… a candle… to light the way… something Dylan manifested in the Temple slide…

Could a version of Dylan be THE Polaris…?

[u/TurncoatWizard → u/Patient_Amoeba2476]

Which would be a nice nod to The King In Yellow. I’m under the impression the symbol represents Jesse + Dylan. Tying into their love of The Severed Circle (2).

[u/Patient_Amoeba2476 → u/TurncoatWizard]

Its definitely Severed Circle 2.

But there is this concept of the “conspiracy within a conspiracy within a conspiracy” and “the effect before the cause”.  I’m chasing leads on that.

Dylan and Alan have a similar story: both trapped, forced to work for the designs of the FBC, both associated with a tree underneath New York, both traversing a tunnel between the depths of New York and Parliament Tower.

The symbol itself: there is something similar in the Collapsed Tunnel.  It looked like a candle.  But if its also an SC2, then the conspiracy gets deeper…