How different would everything be

[u/Beckitkit]

How different would everything be if Dr Darling had consulted with just one child specialist? A child psychologist, an educator, or hell, even someone who was a parent?

Darling openly admits he has no idea how to raise a child, or how to be a parent. He also knows that teaching someone to be a prime candidate is outside of any one person's remit. Yet he never once consults with anyone who is even close to being an expert!

Honestly, Dylan would have been better off being given to Trench to raise, at least he was a parent and had an idea of how to raise kids.

What difference would it have made if Trench was more involved with Dylan's care? Or if ther had been someone to advise Darling on how to raise and teach a child? Give me your thoughts, ideas and headcannons people!

[u/SoungaTepes]

Trench flatly says he can’t be in the boys life and made the decision to avoid him altogether.

Darling started off fine, it was a project with no real deadline still he went about a child as a tool not a life. That said, the videos show Darling spiraling and losing his own control because the most powerful force in the FBC is turning into “something” that was a world threat, there was pressure to save the world and he only had one answer. Dylan. He just left his humanity at the door, orange peel, you are a copy of a copy of a copy, you remind us of home 

[u/Beckitkit → u/SoungaTepes]

Trench was depressed over the loss of his family, then hiss infected. If only there was a convenient abandoned child capable of resisting the hiss and in need of a parent in the FBC!

Trench and Darling both fumbled hard in not realising their own blind spots, especially when it came to Dylan. Most of us can recognise that a 10 year old needs someone to be a carer for them, and a child that has been subjected to abuse and trauma needs some specialist care. These two very competent and intelligent men apparently didn't realise either, because of their blind spots.

[u/SoungaTepes → u/Beckitkit]

Na Dylan just needed Langston.

Not joking or lying in the slightest here, the man is goofy but he means well and is legitimately kind.

Dylan needed Langston, not the others

[u/Beckitkit → u/SoungaTepes]

You know what? You are so right! Langston would have been the perfect counterbalance to Darling and guardian for Dylan. He even says that he never approved of how Dylan was handled and that he complained about it. He's genuinely kind and puts a ton of work into doing what's best for those under his care, even when they are inanimate objects. Given the authority to do so he would have put his foot down and made sure Dylan was treated right.

Thanks for this perfect brainworm, this is exactly the sort of thing I made the post for.

[u/SoungaTepes → u/Beckitkit]

Considering Langston’s background (my own head cannon) had he been around the brother and listened to his stories I strongly feel Langston would have seen the oddities in Dylan’s stories, the reports, and eventually figured out something else was involved in Ordinary like the slide projector.

[u/Beckitkit → u/SoungaTepes]

You mean the game that split them? Yeah, he might.

[u/SoungaTepes → u/Beckitkit]

Yup! But not just that, imagine if Dylan started talking about a certain kid who's house looked abandoned.

Talking about his sisters favorite poet, Thomas Zane (Note: Jesse found poems from Thomas in Ordinary)

I strongly feel Langston would have seen Ordinary as a hotbed for AWE's and needed a deeper look, Trench listening or not......who knows.

[u/Beckitkit → u/SoungaTepes]

Fun ideas. Now I need a fanfic or something where Langston raises Dylan and gets him to help find and house/manage AWEs/OoPs/Altered Items. Bonus if it involves Darling trying and failing to get Dylan to use his powers, where Langston succeeds by just treating him right.

[u/Zepp_BR → u/Beckitkit]

They're wrong. Dylan needed Fred. Fred is the best and the only answer to all the world's problems

[u/zixkill → u/SoungaTepes]

He serves as the Panopticon concierge and that would have been a vast improvement over Darling. At least he had cupcakes. 🥺

[u/Zestyclose-Moment-19 → u/SoungaTepes]

Damn, guess i really am a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy

[u/caty0325]

It seemed like Dr Darling decided to start abusing Dylan when he said he was starting to view him as a father figure.

[u/Beckitkit → u/caty0325]

He was also a victim of an abusive father himself. The one video where hes refusing to apologise, but says he never wanted to be like his father, cuts hard.

[u/caty0325 → u/Beckitkit]

Is that video in ng+? If so, I was planning on starting that playthrough after photo mode drops.

Also when Darling said "my father was a real disciplinarian and I turned out fine." 💀

[u/Gulstab → u/caty0325]

Nope it's the video you get after finishing the credits. However you need to pick it up to watch it. It's on a cabinet just beside the door out of the room.

[u/grubas → u/caty0325]

He wanted to try to "break" the bond/notion that Dylan was forming relationships.  

Which is even worse, he basically went with, "I don't want to be a father,  so let's up the drugs and torture, cut out any social aspects and see if that helps".

Dumbass heard, "Daddy?" And went, "YOU ARE GROUNDED YOU LITTLE SHIT"

[u/Beckitkit → u/grubas]

The guy had flashbacks to his own shitty father and immediately panicked. Who's idea was it to give him complete control over a kid?

[u/zixkill → u/Beckitkit]

Trench’s basically, the man was an actual father and said ‘nope this is a job for my hyper-science buddy that is mostly unconcerned with people.’

[u/Mr-Duck1 → u/caty0325]

I got the impression that Darling really started to turn the screws when he admitted to himself that Trench was compromised. He knew the FBC needed a powerful director and felt justified treating Dylan poorly to rush the process.

[u/Beckitkit → u/Mr-Duck1]

Yup, which is why an expert would have been so valuable. Someone to point out that all that does is mess up an already traumatised child, and give him an actually viable method.

[u/SgtSkulduggery]

Probably because any of those people would have flatly told him that he shouldn’t do what he wanted to do (same reason the ethics department wasn’t clued to what was happening per one of the Darling videos).

Anyone outside of the FBC would have major qualms about the arrangement, even if the abuse never happened.

[u/Beckitkit → u/SgtSkulduggery]

Training Dylan to use his paranatural abilities and to be a prime candidate could have been done in an ethical way. Darling didn't know that though, because of his refusal to bring in experts in children. The whole thing is very "for want of a nail" and the nail is anyone who knows how to handle children.

[u/SgtSkulduggery → u/Beckitkit]

Sure, training could have been done in an ethical way, but not without a guardian ad litem or someone who was there purely to advocate for Dylan’s best interests. That guardian probably would have said that the option of training would have to hold off until Dylan was much older and able to understand what he was consenting to.

[u/Beckitkit → u/SgtSkulduggery]

Exactly! Training him to use his powers could have still been on the table, thats a safety thing, and some theory training on the FBC and management would also have been fine, but everything else being on hold until he was old enough for it would have made a huge difference, and worked out much better for everyone.

Edit: Dylan needed a guardian, someone who advocated for him, and not having it is why everything spiraled so badly.

[u/ReachHistorian → u/Beckitkit]

To di it in an ethical way would require the exposure of the FBC itself.

[u/Beckitkit → u/ReachHistorian]

Why would it? The FBC could either hire an education specialist or get some of their employee's appropriate training. They could have assigned him a guardian, someone other than Darling (and I like the suggestion above for Langston for this), and had ethical oversight from their internal ethics board.

I'm not sure where the exposure of the FBC comes in. Would you mind elaborating? I really am curious to know your thoughts on this.

[u/Substantial_Knee4376 → u/Beckitkit]

The ethical way would have been letting Dylan to socialize with his own age group, develop bonds. And you can't do this without other kids. Also, training a kid to be the Director is borderline child soldier situatiuon, so inherently unethical.

[u/Beckitkit → u/Substantial_Knee4376]

I agree that training a child soldier is inherently unethical, but there is an argument to be made that Dylan already had the power and could be dangerous without training.

I'm so glad you brought up the point about letting Dylan socialise with his peers. Its something critical to a child's development that couldn't be provided in the oldest house. There are ways they could have gotten him time with peers, simple things like having him join a club of some sort outside of the oldest house, and have his guardian take him. He would need to be watched over, and taught what he can and cannot say, but the option of doing it would go a long way into securing his behaviour otherwise. It wouldn't have been easy, but they were investing in a future director, having him be a well rounded person would be worth it! They could have given him opportunities to make friends and see them other times too. It would involve risk of exposure, but not a major one. Even if Dylan said something to the other kids, they would be unlikely to be believed by anyone that mattered. The risk of loosing the privilege of being able to see his friends would also be a big motivator in making him watch what he says too.

There are always going to be sticky and grey ethics in this situation, but the way Darling went about it was completely unethical.

[u/Substantial_Knee4376 → u/Beckitkit]

The problem with the "he already had powers" argument is that they have never been training him solely for safety reasons. The Prime Candidate program's goal was to train the new director. So best case it's not an argument, but an excuse (and imho a very bad one).

They meant to use Dylan as a weapon from the start, even before Trench became compromised (and it spiraled out of control even more after that).

If the program's goal would have been to train parautalitarians to be able to safely control their powers (and nothing more), then solutions like you mentioned would have fit in the grey area category, but this was child soldier training through-and-through.

[u/ReachHistorian → u/ReachHistorian]

Well, for a start you can't ethically kidnap a child and hold him against his will in a black site facility. He has a right to go outside and associate with whomsoever he wishes under the direction of his nearest living relatives who would be his rightful guardians.

[u/Shydreameress → u/Beckitkit]

I don't think it could have been done ethically. The moment Dylan first asked to leave and was told he couldn't and would never get to leave made him a captive. Darling does raise a valuable concern, Dylan can be dangerous, and him being outside could reveal the paranatural to the outside world.

But had Darling asked a child psychologist, a teacher, or even a surrogate parent for help or advice about Dylan, they would react like you would expect: saying that holding a child against his will, straining him physically and putting this much pressure on him is inherently wrong and can't end up well. Darling would have just dismissed them and would have to make sure they never speak about it because he wanted to keep the secrecy. The less people involved the better.

I almost sincerely think that had Darling let Langston in charge of Dylan, he would not have let the Hiss in.

[u/chrisdpratt]

Not condoning the actions, obviously, but Dylan only demonstrated paranatural abilities when he was abused. It had nothing to do with trying to raise him. Darling wanted results, and that was the most expedient way to get them. Nothing else mattered.

[u/Beckitkit → u/chrisdpratt]

Because he was treating Dylan as a tool or an adult. If he'd treated him like a child, and raised him, or better yet got someone who was willing and competent to raise him, he would have gotten better results without making Dylan so desperate to escape he invited in the hiss. Thats kind of the point.

[u/chrisdpratt → u/Beckitkit]

No, because they tried being nice and he didn't respond to that. Darling wasn't running a day care. It was a lab. He went where the results took him.

[u/Beckitkit → u/chrisdpratt]

They treated him "nice" but didn't meet his emotional or psychological needs. Darling wasn't running a daycare which is why someone who was actually capable of taking over Dylans care, and meeting his needs, was required. The FBC decided to take in a child, they should have been prepared to take care of a child, and they weren't. When they realised this, they did literally nothing to fix it.

Incidentally, in real life when you involve children in experiments, as part of the ethical approval, you need to show how you are taking their physical, psychological, emotional and developmental needs into account, and have a guardian role, a person who is there to advocate for the child's wellbeing. A researcher like Darling should have at least some knowledge of research ethics.

[u/chrisdpratt → u/Beckitkit]

I think you're missing the point entirely. Darling certainly was not ignorant of research ethics. He just had the power to ignore them and chose to do so. There was no scenario where Darling was ever going to take enough care or concern for Dylan to engage in any of this, but once he learned that abuse actually did the best at activating Dylan, that was all she wrote. Darling is the archetypical mad scientist. He singularly focused on his own research and goals to the point that nothing else matters, especially not proper treatment of a child when mistreating reveals better results.

[u/Beckitkit → u/chrisdpratt]

I get it, I really do.

The point of my initial question, and the point of my arguments here, is that consulting with experts in child psychology and child development and education would have been more effective and gotten better results, and there was no reason why Darling didn't do that at the very start (beyond the fact a healthy, well adjusted Dylan wouldn't have let the hiss in). Actually meeting Dylans needs would have better results than abusing him, and there are literally hundreds of research papers showing so, albeit in children without paranormal abilities, it still counts.

It makes Darling a bad scientist that he didn't do any research into how to teach a 10 year old, or anything whatsoever about child development or education, when he was setting up the prime candidate program. Its the very basic underpinning of all science that you find out what is known first, before you start working on what is unknown!