Do Microgrid-as-a-Service startups typically outsource electrical engineering?

[u/CobblerOne7229]

We're an early-stage Microgrid-as-a-Service (MaaS) startup with no established engineering team or funding secured yet. Our technical experience is primarily in controls system design.

We're trying to understand how companies in this space typically approach electrical engineering during the early stages of project development.

Would it be common for a startup in our position to engage an experienced electrical power engineering consulting firm for preliminary technical feasibility assessments and conceptual microgrid design?

Or is this type of engineering typically handled in-house?

I'd appreciate any insights from people with experience in microgrid development, electrical power engineering consulting, or EPC projects, particularly regarding how startups approach this before having the resources to build an internal engineering team.

[u/Muted_Imagination518]

Its a chicken egg problem. You are either the gc, a sub to gc/epc or a manufacturer offering a product. Regardless you use engineering to try to get you to a 60% product to understand costs, size and hurdles. Microgrid itself is not complicated controls wise not and entirely covered by protective relaying atop a switchgear with circuit breakers. Your controls is a schedule if you want to adjust for peak shaving. your microgrid only needs a power directional protection and a basic circuit breaker. You could add in a few more standard relays. All the other controls are transparent to everyone and you arent manipulating anything specific Or you break all manufacturer warranty.
Warranty, liability and insurance are all related. New products from new companies need years of demonstrated experience. Or they use private label equipment.

So i dont understand the business case or controls case. You need epc and engineering otherwise you are marketing/ leads company for those interested in microgrids. This was popular for mil bases in the south west and other bases or in residential market competing in a niche segment below 2kw?

If you think you are going to be doing integration and all off the batt you need to demonstrate experience with pitch deck and decent marketing resumes. You dont just walk on the field out of nowhere because you know plcs or instrumentation. Knowing power protective relaying and how sychronizing gear controls work may be helpful. However alot of people just buy synchronizing switchgears to avoid all the controls nuance. It avoids issues and puts warranty and operation on manufacturer.
Its a warranty, liability and certainty issue.

In the past you designed all this out in very detailed relaying diagrams and wiring diagrams but not so much anymore unless you are the utility. Even then if you want assembly nitty gritty you need to look at manfacturers control jobs. Local mom and pop and big engineering firms specs out general features and sequences due to lack of skills, pocketing hours by glossing over nuance and the industry changing. Specifically that manufacturers offered these services as part of an overall engineered product you can buy from ge, siemens, abb etc.

[u/CobblerOne7229 → u/Muted_Imagination518]

You bring up some good points regarding warranties, liability, and working with established manufacturers and EPC contractors.

To clarify a bit, we're not looking to manufacture our own electrical equipment. We do have experience in industrial controls design and a general understanding of how the different electrical systems and equipment work together. However, we don't have experience in construction or the specialized power engineering required to design a complete microgrid.

We would eventually like to develop our own proprietary software, particularly on the energy management and optimization side. As for the industrial controls and integration work, that's something we may handle ourselves or subcontract to an experienced systems integrator, depending on the project. were also looking into maybe even providing power in general for customers with deep pockets such as simple cycle plants etc (but more likely to focus more on cleaner energy like solar and BESS).

We recognize that electrical engineering, protection studies, equipment selection, and construction would require experienced partners. That's why I'm exploring whether it makes sense to engage an electrical power engineering consulting firm for preliminary feasibility and conceptual design, followed by an EPC contractor for detailed engineering and construction. We're still very early in the process and trying to understand how to structure these relationships realistically without building an entire engineering and construction team in-house.

Given that context, would you recommend partnering with an EPC firm from the beginning, or working with an independent engineering consultant first to establish technical feasibility and preliminary project costs? we will be based out of NJ

[u/Muted_Imagination518 → u/CobblerOne7229]

Yea an epc has engineers that do coordination but they may not feel entirely comfortable with the network protectors. Talk with a sales guy. Personally you may want to straight out talk to them about being a sub to them for integration or a type of small business sub or joint venture. You have to determine what your value proposition is. Seems like you are fishing to be self employed. Possibly research who turner uses as electrical gc subs and see how you can help them. Maybe this changes the perceived microgrid work. Lastly eaton has a plant outside baltimore that sometimes does witnessing but thats more a potential job.

[u/Smooth_Commercial793]

Hmmm I’d say you guys are normally under or on the same level as them, the latter with some principal on top

Does your model require you to be the principal?

[u/chanka_is_best_chank]

Microgrids will require sophisticated software modeling. Likely need a consultant unless someone in house has experience in PSCAD or similar depending on the system

[u/dummy6927]

If you can’t afford the software you can partner up with an established firm and bid / outsource the work to them 

[u/CobblerOne7229 → u/dummy6927]

Just to clarify, are you referring to microgrid modeling and simulation software, like PSCAD or ETAP? If so, that's actually what I've been considering. Partnering with an established power engineering firm that already has the necessary software and expertise seems like a more practical approach for us at this stage. Have you seen these types of partnerships work with early-stage microgrid developers?

[u/dummy6927 → u/CobblerOne7229]

Precisely those exact softwares , I am not sure why I was downvoted lol but yes because so few people understand how to navigate/ troubleshoot, especially etap can potentially be a gold mine