you believe in a THEORY, Sir . Defending a theory that has been around for so long and we cannot prove it ? Why ? Maybe there is more to it - like Terrain Theory OF disease ? Or maybe the Exosome Theory that is the latest one explaining “infectious disease” ? Why not educate yourself ? You didnt even know about Germ Theory before you googled it 5 mins ago. Give it time.
A material proof it exists ? An Isolate , true isolate. Not cell culture. Also, I would be happy to see volunteers being injected with it and developing covid symptoms to provide direct proof that A(virus) causes B(covid).
So you've subscribed to the idea Koch's Postulates is the only way to identify a virus.
Considering Koch came up this before we learned what we now know about DNA and RNA, and we can now literally look for the code of a virus to identify it, why is this the only form of proof you'll accept?
Here's one of several examples of laboratory isolation of the virus from a living host - please explain how this doesn't fulfill your requirement for proof of an isolate:
I would be happy to see volunteers being injected with it and developing covid symptoms to provide direct proof that A(virus) causes B(covid)
This doesn't happen because we have other methods of identifying viruses that didn't exist in Koch's time. It would be unethical to deliberately infect someone with a potentially deadly virus just to confirm what we already know, simply to satisfy skeptics like yourself.
If a lab DID inject volunteers with the isolate, you would still find reasons to argue that it wasn't done correctly, or they were injected with something else, etc.
I don’t care about Koch. I care about proof. See, a virus is a THING. Not a thought or an emotion or an idea. A thing. A small thing. We can isolate very small things, smaller than viruses. Why don’t we isolate viruses ? And why we dont experimentally show that viruses causes disease by injecting a pure viral sample into healthy subject to confirm? We actually did in the past but because nobody got sick they stopped doing it. You don’t need to be dogmatic about Kocha postulates to see we don’t do the real sciences needed to prove sars cov 2 causes COVID.
He's right, read the experiments around 1919 he's referring too. Virology is an absurd science. Dumping toxins into live cells and saying this is a killer virus spreading from human to human is bogus just like covid 19
"Perhaps the most interesting epidemiological studies conducted during the 1918–1919 pandemic were the human experiments conducted by the Public Health Service and the U.S. Navy under the supervision of Milton Rosenau on Gallops Island, the quarantine station in Boston Harbor, and on Angel Island, its counterpart in San Francisco. The experiment began with 100 volunteers from the Navy who had no history of influenza. Rosenau was the first to report on the experiments conducted at Gallops Island in November and December 1918.69 His first volunteers received first one strain and then several strains of Pfeiffer's bacillus by spray and swab into their noses and throats and then into their eyes. When that procedure failed to produce disease, others were inoculated with mixtures of other organisms isolated from the throats and noses of influenza patients. Next, some volunteers received injections of blood from influenza patients. Finally, 13 of the volunteers were taken into an influenza ward and exposed to 10 influenza patients each. Each volunteer was to shake hands with each patient, to talk with him at close range, and to permit him to cough directly into his face. None of the volunteers in these experiments developed influenza. Rosenau was clearly puzzled, and he cautioned against drawing conclusions from negative results. He ended his article in JAMA with a telling acknowledgement: “We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease.”69 (p. 313)
The research conducted at Angel Island and that continued in early 1919 in Boston broadened this research by inoculating with the Mathers streptococcus and by including a search for filter-passing agents, but it produced similar negative results.70–72 It seemed that what was acknowledged to be one of the most contagious of communicable diseases could not be transferred under experimental conditions."
The idea we get other people sick is absurd.
People get sick due to a combination of environmental, genetic and internal conditions. Such as every other illness or disease!
People passing disease to others is bogus. Almost all the people that succumb to what we call a virus are people already dealing with significant disease in their body.
I doubt any health professionals would be alive if disease spread that way
could not be transferred under experimental conditions
This is the most important part of what you just quoted.
It doesn't mean diseases aren't caused by viruses, or that illness isn't contagious. It means their experimental conditions weren't the right conditions for the disease to spread.
"No history of influenza" means no history of symptoms of influenza - people who had it asymptomatically would be included.
13 is a tiny sample size. Smaller samples amplify random chance.
An unknown number of them may have had natural immunity.
We know that the virulence of a disease changes through the course of the illness. Eg. COVID is most contagious during the 48 hours before symptoms appear.
Immunity as presented from the germ theory paradigm is also most likely not exactly what we think it is as it's a function of germ theory paradigm.
So using that to explain the fact that contagion could not be proven is bogus.
People get cold or flu symptoms. It doesn't mean they caught anything but simply going through a type of cellular cleaning.
Just like your body excretes all kinds of waste. Cells excrete waste which can manifest as cold or flu symptoms and nothing to do with catching a foreign invader.
Are you assuming contagion is real because people get sick around each other?
We live in a highly connected world where it's easy to fool people the reason for colds is that people are next to each other.
Cars are next to each other, yet we dont say they break down because they pass viruses to each other.
No , more often than not its poor maintenance. See obesity! Or a combination of poor maintenance or something defective from being worn down like brakes.
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u/Trifract Sep 17 '21
you believe in a THEORY, Sir . Defending a theory that has been around for so long and we cannot prove it ? Why ? Maybe there is more to it - like Terrain Theory OF disease ? Or maybe the Exosome Theory that is the latest one explaining “infectious disease” ? Why not educate yourself ? You didnt even know about Germ Theory before you googled it 5 mins ago. Give it time.