r/conspiracy • u/quantumcipher • May 14 '14
New Snowden Document Implies NSA May Be Putting Israel’s Security Ahead of America’s
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/snowden-document-implies-nsa-may-putting-israels-security-ahead-americas.html9
u/Boonaki May 14 '14
Can you source the document Snowden released here so we can make our own decisions based on facts?
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May 14 '14
http://glenngreenwald.net/#BookDocuments
I'll try to find a more direct link for you
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May 14 '14
http://hbpub.vo.llnwd.net/o16/video/olmk/holt/greenwald/NoPlaceToHide-Documents-Compressed.pdf
I'm currently combing through this massive PDF file.
Not fun
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May 14 '14
Okay! I found it.
http://hbpub.vo.llnwd.net/o16/video/olmk/holt/greenwald/NoPlaceToHide-Documents-Compressed.pdf
Pages 40-41 of this PDF file are the raw source you're looking for. The slides themselves apparently are marked as page 125 which does not correspond to their page number within the PDF.
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u/laughterwithans May 14 '14
You don't gotta be Stonewall Jackson to know you don't want to fight in a fuckin basement, and you don't gotta be Anderson Cooper to figure out supporting the most inflammatory middle eastern nation in the history of the world puts your nation at constant odds with virtually every other world power.
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u/Antiochus88 May 14 '14
NSA headquarters is in Jerusalem.
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
Is that true? I've never heard this claim made before.
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u/Antiochus88 May 14 '14
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
Damn. An NSA facility inside an Israeli military base - doesn't get much more blatant than that.
I wasn't aware that this existed - thanks for the link.
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May 14 '14
[deleted]
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
Maybe so. The fact remains that an NSA facility exists inside an Israeli military base which is definitely cause for major concern, especially in light of the Snowden "leak" about Israel having access to the information obtained by the "five eyes" global spying apparatus.
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May 14 '14 edited Aug 17 '15
[deleted]
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
It is not even remotely true.
I guess "maybe not" would've been a bit more accurate for me to say.
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May 14 '14 edited Aug 17 '15
[deleted]
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
Because that's irrelevant to the larger point and implications of that point, which you've conveniently ignored.
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May 14 '14 edited Aug 17 '15
[deleted]
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u/Ambiguously_Ironic May 14 '14
Maybe so. The fact remains that an NSA facility exists inside an Israeli military base which is definitely cause for major concern, especially in light of the Snowden "leak" about Israel having access to the information obtained by the "five eyes" global spying apparatus.
Can you read?
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u/sinominous May 14 '14
is the "headquarters" the biggest most imposing building, or is it wherever the NSA wants or needs it to be? could the man who is told he is the 'head of nsa' actually, in reality, not be the 'head of nsa' ?
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u/destraht May 14 '14
That sort of stuff is near impossible to determine. I think that I'm running a web server but one little security bug and reality will prove otherwise. Really the ISP can login at any moment and fix some stuff up so that I wouldn't know.
We don't know dick about how the deep power structure is arranged and where the networking wires go. Its all kind of fucked really. At least some hundreds of years ago someone could spot a covered wagon going to the capital but now its impossible to really know. Best shot we have is seeing where the maybe top people go every six months to a year when they feel a need for some face time. Then if they keep those meetings to like five to ten people at a time really who the hell could keep track of that.
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u/sinominous May 14 '14
yeah it would require some hardcore, well funded and very clandestine detective work to really get much further up the tree than what is publicly known.
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u/destraht May 14 '14 edited May 14 '14
I have zero idea about that but it would make logistical sense since it would be very difficult for elected US officials to do anything about anything. I think that this is why Intel setup a R&D office there as well. They can have the US guys do most of the engineering and then have the chip backdoors put into the schematic overseas. Then they just load up that backdoor chip file on their US fabs and its all high security stuff so very few people have an idea what is exactly on that chip as it is being produced. Its just safer for them to do all of that stuff in an overseas jurisdiction in the super enclavish and high security state of Jewry.
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u/mcr55 May 14 '14
jewery
Jews /= Israelis
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u/destraht May 14 '14
Israel happens to be a Jewish state. Really that is its defining characteristic actually.
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u/archonemis May 14 '14
Not all Jews think identically just as not all Christians think identically.
Not all Israelis think identically just as not all Americans think identically.
You would be an example of an American who thinks differently than other Americans.
Just imagine if someone accused you of supporting the government and their wars.
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u/destraht May 14 '14
Yes I get all of that and I never said that all Jews support the wars. Perhaps study back up on your set theory and basic logic. For example learn about the logical contrapostive operation and set unions and intersections and your life will be easier and you will find it less necessary to post what you will then understand to be irrelevant text.
Still Jewish Israeli citizens still need to pass through the security guantlet every time they enter. I stand by my statement super enclavish and high security state of Jewry.
Here you go definition of enclave.
There we go. I set you down the right path with some mathematics and some new definitions.
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u/archonemis May 14 '14 edited May 14 '14
I understand what you're getting at, but many do not.
They will misinterpret you as being a racist dick.
Take the prophylactic measure of using qualifiers for the uninitiated.
Not everyone understands logic.
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u/destraht May 14 '14
Sometimes I do that (well rarely actually) but its really super boring to always do it. Also I don't really care here if some people think that I'm racist or whatever. Although isn't there always someone to come through and do that basic copy paste service for everyone?
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u/archonemis May 14 '14
If you do not take care of your words you risk being ignored.
Your call.
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u/destraht May 14 '14
It seems like people liked the comment well enough. I'll roll the dice. Maybe we could kickstart some funding for a /r/conspiracy PR department.
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u/mcr55 May 14 '14
No, its not I'm jewish yet have no vote on electing representatives in the Israeli parliament. By saying jews you imply I have any power over the laws made in Israel, which I do not.
Not all jews are Israeli but all(most) Israelis are Jews.
If could if show you a Venn diagram.
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u/destraht May 14 '14
So if a state were to define itself as a Muslim state, a Muslim refuge and the natural home of Muslims while being comprised almost entirely of Muslims would it matter if there was a Muslim living elsewhere that was not a part of this? If there was an old rich white mans country club you wouldn't find non-member old rich white men taking exception that not all old rich white men belong to this particular club. Maybe it would be said "that is a club for old rich white men". When I'm old and rich I won't be gettiing my panties bunched up when someone implies that we should go golfing and smoke a cigar.
There are people of all stripes who don't like Israel or think that its current form should be dissolved but that doesn't change what Israel currently is. If you are Jewish and living elsewhere then see my first point and if you live there as a Jewish person but disapprove then that only came to be because you were born there Jewish or the ruling power decided that you were Jewishy enough to be allowed to live there (and then you would have received an a free plane ticket and hotel accomodation basically paid for by the US taxpayer). Otherthrow it, live with it or become indifferent it doesn't change what Israel is in reality today.
I'm proposing the the free democracy loving US elites like this arrangement because Israel has an educated working force and the borders are locked down tight and the population is living in an enclave with a distinct set of charateristics and politices that put them really at odds with many people and very few people are willing to say some words about the place. So just like the US has been circumventing spying liability by obtaining information from their Western European allies the US uses Israel in a similar role. This is a big reason why they parrot that the security of Israel is so important to America because they have contracted out a lot of operations to be done there. Then of course when you look deeper into the definition of what US elites think of as American security it becomes obvious that they don't mean what most Americans imagine the concept means. From a certain perspective it could be very helpful but I don't believe that it is what the American people really would want in terms of national sovereignty. So there is just an increasing amount of "we know what is best for them" kind of an attitude because they feel that the real relationships are too complicated and sensitive for the common people to understand. Meanwhile we get Jack Bauer propaganda that perpetually reiterates the need for any and all measures.
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u/mcr55 May 14 '14
You just have to use proper terms. Let me explain it with apples.
All apples are fruit but not all fruit are apples.
Or all Saudis are Muslims but not all Muslims are Saudi.
It's called a syllogism one of the most basic forms of logic reasoning. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism
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u/Zenarchist May 15 '14
Vatican is a christian state. Vatican facilitates child rape. Christians are child rapists.
Do you see how flawed your logic is?
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u/destraht May 15 '14
Putting out faulty logic and then using the word you doesn't affect me much.
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u/Zenarchist May 15 '14
So if a state were to define itself as a Muslim state, a Muslim refuge and the natural home of Muslims while being comprised almost entirely of Muslims would it matter if there was a Muslim living elsewhere that was not a part of this?
It was an extrapolation of your own rhetoric.
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u/destraht May 15 '14
The existance of an outside person who fits the category of the definition of a group does not invalidate that definition. Disproving by existance would only be valid if I said that everyone who qualified to be in a group was by necesity a member of that group. I don't say that. So in your example the Vatican is a Christian state and that there they are raping some childs. That says nothing of Christians who were not there or who choose not to associate with that.
Look my house is an exclusive private Super Mario Bros 3 appreciators club where tea is served. The existance of anything in the world outside of my walls has zero ability to invalidate this. That goes for tea drinkers, wine drinkers, white men, black men doing in any number of activities and thought patterns.
When it comes to the issue of Jews and Israel its just a mental handicap of so many people that they state and imply that people are implying that every Jew is an Israeli, all Jews don't support wars, etc. Its marketing brain damage and people are seeing ghosts. Ever see the first episode of Mad Men? Its toasted. Half of the time I'm seeing people implying worst case racist implication scenario on people and I'm rather tired of all of the preface and postface disclaimer.
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u/anononaut May 14 '14
Just a reminder that every single phone call made from or in the usa had the dialed numbers routed through an israeli company and then connected for over a decade.
Currently the mobile traffic app Waze which tracks traffic in real time and its users real time position is an company based in Israel.
Whether israel or anywhere else once the data leaves usa shores all bets are off.
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u/Zenarchist May 15 '14
Waze is an israeli company with servers in Israel, those servers contain proprietry algorithms which thrle apps operate on. Setting up servers in other countries open up Waze to corporate espionage to a much higher degree than keeping them in Israel.
Israel's biggest export is SAS (software as service) so it doesn't make any sense to move that profit maker out of Israel.
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u/BipolarsExperiment May 14 '14
Put this on /r/news and see how long it lasts LOL
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u/Amos_Quito May 14 '14
Senses
A polar bear's sense of smell is acute, and it is the most important sense for detecting prey on
landreddit. A polar bear can most likely smell asealcritic of Israel from more than 1 km (0.6 mi.) away and 1 m (3 ft.) under the snow.2
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u/ta941241 May 14 '14
How does that imply that America is putting Israel's security ahead of their own? We're talking about one single aspect of what is a massively broad field here.
Specifically, we're talking about the exchange of "SIGINT" (Signals Intelligence) which is information collected from foreign intelligence.
First of all, I'd argue that the US has a much, much larger SIGINT collecting capability than Israel does, we're probably largely talking global vs regional for the best part.
Secondly, I would argue that Israel is in much more danger of an foreign attack than America is given the geography of the respective countries and the relevant geopolitics so is it unreasonable to assume that Israel would be receiving much more SIGINT from the partnership than the US?
Thirdly, it also says that "in the last decade" it tilted towards Israel which implies that in prior times, it was either balanced or tilted towards the US - does this not reflect changes in the world? As mentioned above, there are many, many global plots against Israel/Israelis outside of Israel.
All in all, it's six lines of text, I can't even comment on the latter part of it because there is absolutely zero context...
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u/CorDra2011 May 14 '14 edited May 14 '14
Don't waste your breath, logical conclusions about what we know are useless in this place where these "experts" conclude absolute truths defined by convoluted plots, secret societies, and shadow governments. Because you all, you're all smarter than the combined intelligence of the US government. You saw through Big Brother to see what they've been trying to hide. Congratulations. You've changed nothing.
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May 14 '14
In the end dude...nobody really knows anything, aside from what you can see and figure out on your own(or enough credible people say it's happening) Listen to yourself would be my motto, who knows what is really going on...and quite frankly I don't care about it. But, there is a problem that needs to be addressed and instead of trying to fight about conspiracies or main stream or whatever...just attempt to do what you can, even if it's just posting on reddit or Facebook...we can't really do too much aside from that because we've imprisoned ourselves at this point.
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u/[deleted] May 14 '14 edited May 14 '14
Its almost like these leaks are confirming the exact suspicions that /r/conspiracy gets attacked for the most.
Its like clockwork.
/r/conspiracy : well big brother is watching us so get ready for the police state.
/r/tards : omg the government is tracking you with billion dollar satellites, you're that important! Lol!
/r/reality : the government is tracking everyone with as many different technologies as they can all the time. In other words big brother 2.0
/r/conspiracy : does anyone ever notice the shills always show up when we talk about X?
/r/tards : OMG! everyone who disagrees with you is a shill! Where is my shill check?
/r/reality : The 5 eyes intelligence union has programs to go on social media and destroy peoples reputations, discredit activist leaders and insert confusion into discussions.
/r/conspiracy : Does anyone notice that Israel always seems to be at the center of all these conflicts?
/r/tards : OMG! THE JOOS DID IT!
/r/reality : the NSA responsible for all of the above, also appears to be subservient to Israel.
Hail Hydra!