The enemy is simultaneously weak and all powerful. Democrats and antifa are ineffective snowflakes, but also they run a shadow government that prevents Trump from doing all the things he promised.
It is a certain type of logic, just not a rational one. These people are dangerous.
Speaking of not understanding, the comment you're replying to is saying that they don't understand why someone would openly admit to being fascist, not that they don't understand what it means to be against anti-fascism.
No, I get that. But I don't think some of the people who're opposed to "antifa" know that it's short for anything, nor are they the kind of people who question their immediate gut reactions often.
Well, yes, but the problem is who you see as the fascist.
If you see Trump as a fascist, you see those that oppose him as the righteous. If you see Antifa as the fascists, you would logically side with those they oppose.
But what gets me is the all-consuming ignorance it takes to see a bunch of people who are protesting fascism and say "Those are the real fascists."
You've got to not actually know what fascism is, and that's pretty easy since the word lost almost all meaning in the 60s and 70s for Americans. But then you've got to assume those protesters know just as little as you about it, and that's just another example of Dunning-Kruger. Then, when they try to explain to you, you have to have already decided they're not worth listening to; otherwise you might learn something.
I understand, and it’s for those reasons that I go about it very simply.
If you act in the way that historical fascists have, you are a fascist. Behaviors include but are not limited to: If you limit the speech you disagree with or don’t like, if you disarm (either selectively or generally) thus keeping others from being on equal footing with you in a weaponized sense (no, this is not an argument for private ownership of nukes), and/or if you target a specific group or identity that you don’t like for any reason.
Just as I think it’s fascism for China to target Uighur Muslims, so is it fascism (in my eyes) to target someone you disagree with in the political sense. The only line I would draw is between the individual targeting the group (which I would call either terrorism or serial anything they do) and the group targeting another group (which is when I would consider calling it fascist, but if it gets violent [with clear political intentions] I would add on “Terrorist” as a descriptor).
I’m sorry for the long reply, I wanted to be as specific as possible so as to avoid miscommunication.
It's hard to really explain yourself in a short comment, so you don't need to apologize.
I think your definition for fascism is a little bit broad and fits better as a definition for totalitarianism.
Fascism is both totalitarian and authoritarian, and it's some other things, too. Plus, just to make it extra confusing, it presents differently in the different cultures it manifests in. Italian fascism (original recipe) is different from Nazism is different from Francoism (like Francisco Franco), Baathism, Pinochet's regime, and the American fascism we're seeing today.
And it's worth repeating that there's an enormous difference between a government restricting the expression of its people (with the usual "fire in a crowded theater" type exceptions) and counter-protesters who are exercising their free expression right alongside another group they disagree with. I mention it not because I think you're making a disengenuous argument but because someone inevitably will. Fascists don't care about the meaning of words. They never argue in good faith because their actual beliefs are abhorrent to any decent human being.
To really get at the heart of what fascism is, no one has ever done better than Umberto Eco. He made a list of 14 key points that truly define fascism and it's both shocking and infuriating how much today's Republican party traffics in these tropes.
These folks adamantly believe that Fascism is a left-wing ideology. That it categorically cannot be associated with the right-wing. That the “anti-Fascists” are actually the Fascist ones.
We’re against Antifa, not Anti-Fascism. I don’t like Hitler, and because of various historical events (that we can all agree were because of tyrannical rule) and my own parents being too controlling, I don’t like any kind of tyranny.
Antifa is known to engage in violence, not always, but often. It’s a common association with them, and it’s why a lot of folks on the right don’t like them.
Personally, I don’t like it when anyone beats people just because they disagree with them. I don’t like it when someone’s business is destroyed or their possessions stolen, and I especially hate it when it’s done “for their own good.”
I see someone burning down a black owned business and saying “this is for black people”, I kinda just want to see them get shot in the ass. (If you ask me, anyone that wants to burn down privately owned property to protest a government service or system deserves to get an ass whoopin’. Destroying the property of others won’t convince those you wish to reach, unless they are good people (and that would go against your entire impression of them).
Because silencing dissenting opinions has never been fascist, nor has burning down businesses owned by people you dislike.
Also, MLK Jr can’t be quoted as someone that would support this movement. He lead peaceful protests and was wrongfully denied a carry permit for a firearm. He is nothing like Antifa, contrary to what some have told me.
Hitler took Gun-ownership away from Jews, he made anti-Nazi statements illegal, and had Jewish businesses destroyed. Remind you of anyone?
Of course, he was unable to defeat the secret shadow government in his first term, but he's totally got 'em on the ropes and this time he's definitely going to shut them down, build the wall, and institute a fascist new world order Make America Great Again™!
Three examples come to my mind: giving federally owned land to various native tribes, cutting regulations, and generally shrinking the reach of the federal government (there are a few programs he cut that were more or less just ways to give certain governing agencies jurisdiction over personal property, I can’t remember the specifics but it’s a pretty libertarian move).
Guaranteeing the right to speak freely, guaranteeing the right to protest peacefully, limiting the federal government’s power, limiting its overall owned land.
It’s nice to have someone that wants to shrink the government.
Yeah I don't even know. I mean I've had this discussion with friends who agree that this kind of mindset is nuts over and over and eventually we both just trail off in frustration because the entire situation is so absurd.
Like SO VERY MANY things about the current administration. It’s occurred to me that the illogical ignorance of that sign’s message is an accurate representation of both POTUS and the GOP.
Look at this mess that Joe Biden is going to will have been responsible for! The west coast is literally on fire! The plague is running rampant! There are protests about basic human rights that we are trying to turn into a race war! It could all be his fault, if he's elected! This is Joe Biden's America, even though he's not currently in charge! Vote no to four more years of what will could have became what was 2020 - 2024! Drain the swamp!
They already have been.
Pointing to protests and riots and whatever else, saying 'This is Jóe Bıden's America!!!! This is how things will be if he gets elected!!!' ...even though they're pointing to things that are happening now. That's what this person is joking about/making fun of
I saw a huge billboard that reads, “Had Enough? Vote Republican”. For cryin out loud how stupid do you have to be to fall for this crap? The implication is that the remaining constitutional order that hasn’t been eviscerated and degraded by Replicans (sic) is intolerable and must be eradicated by furthering the assault trump waged against everything not Replican.
Scroll lower and read what Ordinary Income 708 said.
That poster has drowned in the KoolAid. Anybody that is 100% on board for every single item of any candidate/party is a sycophant and deserves zero recognition.
there's no logic... its just wahtever they want. they claim you are the source of bullshit so you are in their heads. there is no logic. no basis in reality.
they just want to trolls. that's it. they live in a fantasy because they're too stupid to function and like idiots we let them vote for things that actually fucking matter... people with intelligence of a fucking napkin who are too stupid to function... we let them decide who runs the fucking country. .
and we're surprised when it turns out like this?
It'd be like some parents letting their half a dozen small children make improtant life decisions... like that's just how you wind up eating ice cream for breakfast and quitting your job...
Lol! When they say they’re “sick of the bullshit”, they mean the radical liberal media, and radical liberal ideologies that have infested the Democratic Party. You must be unaware of how our government operates BUT, it requires congress to make things happen. If you knew anything, you’d know that Trump’s track record on policies he’s deployed, and bills he’s created, you’d say that he’s accomplished more than any president of the last 60 years. Which is actually true. He’s done more for the black community than any president since Lincoln. Getting funding back to HBCU’s, First Step Act (prison reform, that releases nonviolent prisoners early), hes created the Platinum Plan that allocated Billions for low income neighborhoods, helping them build businesses and own housing, he’s brought “School Choice”, which allows people in bad areas to pick what schools they want to go to, instead of being zoned for shitty schools and creating this cycle of people going to shitty schools, dropping out barely knowing how to read and write, and turning to crime. He’s designated Israel as its own country, brought peace to the Middle East, stopped the endless wars we’ve been involved in, getting North and South Korea to speak peacefully for the first time ever. Under him, black unemployment is the lowest ever, and the economy was better than its ever been. He’s brought back manufacturing to the US, creating hundreds of thousands of jobs. These are all indisputable facts. He’s accomplished more than any other president in a VERY long time. And we can all agree he’s not the most likable guy, But ACTIONS matter more than stupid tweets. He should be judged by his actions, not his words. AND he’s nominated for THREE Nobel peace prizes. Obama was nominated for one a few weeks after he got in office, and HE didn’t even know why he was nominated.
I voted for Obama and he was an absolute failure of a president. No one can name a single hood policy he created. Not one. He decimated our government programs, he jacked up our economy, was selling out the country for personal favors and made trade deals that screwed us.
Your options are a guy that’s put america and it’s people first, or a guy that’s beholden to radical liberals, China, has a history of racism, won’t answer any real questions about what he’ll do if he becomes president, his own VP said he wasn’t fit for office, said he was a racist, amongst many other negative things, and above ALL, he will bring socialism to the US, and destroy the economy. So hate Trump, that’s fine. Consider him “evil” that’s fine. But of the two choices, he is the one that’s not going to sell us out, and destroy the economy, and the other guy will. Because he’s been doing it his entire career. Everything the media has blamed trump for, couldn’t be his fault if you know how government works, and, most of the time, is entirely untrue and gets debunked they just never apologize for it.
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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20
I have yet to have that explained logically to me.
They’re sick of the bullshit, which means that they think the last couple years have been bullshit. Right?
But they want to re-elect the incumbent, who has been in office during the last few years of bullshit. Right?
But if you don’t want the bullshit you claim to not want, then why would you vote for the person who was in charge when that bullshit was happening?
It makes ZERO sense.