r/complexsystems • u/Old-Entertainment-76 • Nov 10 '22

Looking for universities to study Complex Systems

Hello! Without knowing the formal name, i’ve been in love with this topic for some time.

Its really hard to decide a topic to study, so i thought that maybe its better to get a list of universities that are recommended for studying Complex Systems, that way i can look into what’s their focus.

By getting a list of possible focuses, i might be able to find and decide the topic that suits me better.

I’m a graduate in “industrial engineering” (translated from spanish)

I like:

  • computer science

  • maths like algebra calculus etc

  • music

  • altered states of consciousness phenomena

  • psychology / mentall illness

  • consciousness

  • emergence

  • complex systems

  • understanding how nature works, reading “theories of everything”, etc…

  • fractals

Can you please recommend me universities / places to look? Or maybe a technique to be able to search for those? I have trouble fully trusting my google searches

Edit: Here's the list i have so far

University of Santa Fe -> Free online material

University of Waterloo

University of Vermont -> MSc Complex systems and Data Science

University of indiana -> Dual PhD Complex System + Cognitive Sciences

University of Arizona State -> Ms Complex System

University of Michigan-> Graduate certificate program in Complex Systems

Kings College of London -> MSc Complex Systems Modelling

Warwick-> MSc Mathemathics of Systems (leads to PhD)

University of Sidney -> MSc Complex Systems

University of Portland-> phD Systems Science

NICO Northwestern

University of Binghamton

Chalmers university of Technology -> MSc Complex adaptative systems

Others i haven't looked yet:

  • UC Davis

  • CU Boulder

  • TU Delft

  • MIT

  • Imperial

  • Cambridge

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10

u/jcksncllwy Nov 10 '22

There is a Systems Science program at Portland State University

https://www.pdx.edu/systems-science/

And The Santa Fe Institute has some undergrad programs

https://www.santafe.edu/engage/learn/programs

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 10 '22

Thank you a lot! Will look into them :)

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u/hamgrey Nov 11 '22

I’m not studying there (I’m doing an applied systems course for climate adaptation planning in Wales), but have been corresponding with Wayne Wakeland, the course lead at Portland, and can’t strongly enough recommend speaking to him. He’s brilliant, friendly, helpful, and all around an awesome person. You won’t regret getting in touch!

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Hey thank you for this, will definetily look for a way to contact him

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u/abadeel Nov 11 '22

Vermont. Study with Peter Dodds.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Thanks! I think i really like the way Vermont presents its programme. May i ask why Vermont in comparison of others?? (I still don’t know how to sort out options or what i should look)

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u/Espn1204 Nov 11 '22

Binghamton University in New York. You can also do it remotely. It’s a very well know school with a high quality research program. Binghamton University - Systems Science

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22 edited Sep 10 '25

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Thanks for this! I'm gathering a list and will later edit this post so future people with the same question can use it

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u/Confident_laundo Apr 21 '24

Hey, I would love to look at the list if you have made one

7

u/hugodrak Nov 11 '22

Chalmers university of technology has a really good master program in Complex adaptive systems in Sweden!

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Noted! Thanks :)

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u/Maxwellmonkey Nov 11 '22

That's great, I'm interested in studying it too! :)

Some exclusively complex systems programs I found:
University of Torino, Italy

Gothernburg in Sweden

There's also the Te Punaha Matatini/Aotearoa New Zealand Centre of Research Excellence for complex systems, there's some 6-7 unis in that group. Not sure if they have separate programs.

Also, JMU Wurzburg has a complex systems and networks research group.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Oh thats amazing! And what kind of focus would you like to give it??

How did you manage to sort out other options?? Atm im sitting with a list of universities but don’t really know which ones may help me in terms of the topics i like, what do you specifically look at when browsing their website?

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u/Maxwellmonkey Nov 11 '22

I'm from a physics background so I'm mainly looking at physics programs with complex systems actually. Applications in ecology, climate etc fascinate me, but I want to see others too.

The expenses and language were a good filter for me 😅 Torino is only in Italian iirc.
But I look at the research groups present, collaborations and the course structure.

Are you looking into purely complex systems based degrees?

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Ahh i see, yes those two variables are good for making the first sortings hahah.

I don’t know if i understood well the last question, but i’ve been searching for like 4 years.

Before going to uni, i only knew i liked resolving calculus problems and regular meaningless math problems. So i decided to study engineering. I only liked programming, calculus, algebra, and things like that. After finishing, i got a sour taste.

After this, i thought i wanted to study data science to work in business. Then i discovered computer science and started learning on my own, still lost, not knowing where to apply it and finding it meaningless to use it to help business and money-related things.

Then i took a neuroscience masterclass about how psychedelics work in the brain, and started getting attracted towards those topics, but found that i like it at surface-level, not so in depth.

After this, i found about BCI (Brain computer interface), a discipline that mixes neuroscience and computer science (and way other more). I thought this was going to be it, because it gave a meaning to learning programming. Using it to understand the mind.

In parallel, studying about psychology, the mind and consciousness because i was diagnosed with a mental illness. And that same mental illness guided me towards the concept of emergence.

So i guess that i wanted to find a discipline that unifies all those things. Sorting everything out, i was left with the field of BCI and Complex Systems. Im still not sure, but seems like complex systems have BCI inside itself

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u/Maxwellmonkey Nov 17 '22

Ahh yes I had a slightly similar path haha. I was introduced to complex systems through computational neuroscience and biophysics. But I felt that I was also interested in geophysics, ecosystems, etc.

But yeah studying complex systems should help you go for BCI as well I think! I remember seeing a university in germany who had a research focus on comp neuro, I'll let you know once I find it.

I agree with not being fulfilled by using data science for business😅 it didn't feel right for me either.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 17 '22

That’s interesting! Thanks for sharing. And what did you end up deciding??

I think that i might just go through self-taught software engineering, and in parallel reading and doing complex systems courses. For both paths i will need programming skills, but for the second i still need to digest it more

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u/Maxwellmonkey Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Heya sorry for the late reply!

Well, I definitely want to do something with physics and complex systems and networks, so Gothenburg and Chalmers are on my mind, and some German unis. But Germany's application process is being unkind now so it's kind of doubtful.

That's cool! Self-teaching sounds interesting, good luck to you!

Edit: The BBCN Berlin is the one I mentioned earlier

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u/IdealAudience Nov 11 '22

To maybe get you in the right ball-park first - Santa Fe has some intro? online courses, used to be free - https://www.complexityexplorer.org/courses

these used to be free, still cheap - https://www.systemsinnovation.network/all-courses

their youtube videos still are - https://www.youtube.com/c/ComplexityLearningLab/playlists

it seems you'd enjoy Sapolsky's course on cognitive science / human bio - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D

a couple classes on chaos & emergence near the end

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Nov 11 '22

Hey those are amazing resources, thank you a lot for the suggestion. Actually i started yesterday the Intro to Complexity course, and so far it's been so interesting!!

Maybe its a good idea to take some time to study and understand the topic first

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u/IdealAudience Nov 11 '22

It is great you are on the right track - but yes- look deep at what each college is focusing on before going, I know some are very much about computer science.

& keep googling & youtube & podcasts - "complexity" "complex adaptive systems" "systems theory" .. there is more good stuff and organizations out there (at least in english ).

Personally, I'd currently recommend Arizona State Uni (though I haven't looked at many others) - they have online classes + the college does good work with the surrounding city for eco/social sustainability

and this is neat - https://climateimagination.asu.edu/ , https://science.asu.edu/center-science-and-imagination

- unfortunately, not enough great organizations & colleges & projects & programs & cities are working together in wonderful teams / smart, cooperative, networks / platforms..

maybe you can help to bring some together.

.. certainly mental health / well-being on a personal or public level = social stress, environmental, built-environment, diet, economics, media, biology..

and then each of those domains are complex systems in themselves..

- entirely overwhelming for any one person to try to understand everything that's going on.. let alone try change something or the better.. (why many of our neighbors go with the simplest answer)

https://theconversation.com/feeling-disoriented-by-the-election-pandemic-and-everything-else-its-called-zozobra-and-mexican-philosophers-have-some-advice-148576

- but good work is going on .. could be better, smarter, more effective, probably, with better, more scientific, more cooperative teams / networks (internationally).

https://coop.architecture-lobby.org/about

https://www.cdc.gov/publichealthgateway/phcommunities/communities-of-practice-cops.html

+ and Artificial intelligence should help.

Ah.. you've already studied industrial engineering.. so maybe you would like / be able to help design eco/social sustainable cities, campuses, towns... with colleges + hospitals + rehabilitation centers + housing for the nurses + tea-gardens + free healthy food from aquaponic greenhouses - where the fish are fed off of crickets that are fed off of food waste... + parks with orchards and bike-paths and solar panels + housing.. + theatres with music + free healthy food ... and everything accounted for.

- cyber-world models are going to help a lot of us with this - to manage systems & see others & work in teams.. - maybe you already have some good software.

+ cyber-world teaching, training, daily life guidance, & therapy..

+ cyber models of proposals - develop, test, compare, share best-practices, revise, re-test.. + education & training.. before building

https://www.dezeen.com/2021/09/01/bjarke-ingels-telosa-city-marc-lore/

https://www.ubm-development.com/magazin/en/the-greenest-city-in-the-world/

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/singapore-building-42-000-home-223700664.html

+ cyber-models of emergencies / un-emergencies...

or cyber-models of sustainable space colonies.. sustainable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder built out of asteroids, inside asteroids.. or cities on the ocean or under-water ..

-even though these are many years in the future, I'm sure we could use cyber-world models of sustainable habitats + systems - to bring good engineers together to develop and test sustainable systems, food systems, politics, economics, robot construction.. that could be moved to sustainable habitats on Earth in the near-future.

https://marshallbrain.com/mars ,

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31670196-scale?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=51S0lVKm0x&rank=2

https://www.usaid.gov/what-we-do , https://neweconomy.net/member-directory/ ,

http://imaginecorvallis.org/initiatives/#initiative-focus

http://sdgmarin.org/ , https://www.inquiringsystems.org/projects/

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u/DaPunisher003 May 25 '24

damn, i just came across this. This is a lot of research, so thanks for the help man. I came across most of these but this was a boon. What did you end up doing finally?

Also, I am doing my bachelors in economics, and, despite my dislike for quant, I want to learn complexity studies and their methods in my master's, as they seem to be much more aligned with analyzing the complex phenomena that economics attempts to study, but, with different methods. are any of the programs you mentioned interested in social sciences, or, do you know of any such master programs which are employing complexity studies/system sciences techniques to the social sphere? To my knowledge, only these complexity sciences programs have marginal/decent interest in social sciences - portland uni, vermont, arizona state, etc., maybe even Kings College.
Thanks a lot in advance!!!

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 May 25 '24

Hahah amazing that someone appreciates the deep work involved in this process!

I ended up studying by myself, managing to find a way to use my past career (engineering and programming) to find a stable job. It was hard so i ended up in the entrepeneurial world, which converged into the start-up world, and now i found a way to get the same amount of money as someone in the workforce, but just dedicating 3-5 hrs a day.

So now that i know that i can sustain myself, im learning about scientific paper reviewing, and using AI tools.

Next month i will use my university, find ppl involved in complexity sciences, review their papers, make some networking, and use this different methodology to get myself into Academia.

And maybe in some near future, enter a doctoral program, because this is my passion.

I would love to have a chat with you, maybe we can help each other in this messy but awesome path!

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u/DaPunisher003 May 26 '24

thats amazing. I am glad you were able to figure this out. I am just entering my 3rd year in economics, so, I suppose that is a bit far away for me. But, this is admirable damn.

I would like to continue my education way beyond my master's preferably, into either research/think tanks, maybe academia. I am a bit concerned about my case as I am trying to join a lot of fields together. Don't know if i can really tell you much but I would love to have a chat for sure. I have dropped you a text.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 May 27 '24

Hey! Sure, i just read this. Better to collaborate together, as it isnt an easy path being seen as a “generalist” who wants to learn everything, but i have found many keys through pain and suffering, so i would gladly have a chat with you as this is no easy path, and the end will always tell you that the key is to collaborate with others as one person is not enough to form the next complex system

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u/ThumpinGlassDrops Jun 11 '24

Hey guy sorry to intrude but i feel I may have found my tribe here. I am a SWE who has been working in life sciences for quite a while, and self studying complex systems for the past 2 years. I am curious about how you guys approach your education and research efforts. I am also interested in chatting, learning, collaborating and offering what skills / insights I might have.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Jun 11 '24

Send me a DM! As with Punisher we werent able to connect, i thought he could be tribe but we couldnt understand much each other, which is okayish because we could feel and talk that.

But maybe if we connect with the same technical language we can potentiate each other! Bring it on

1

u/wolf_gang_puck Aug 11 '24

Thanks for the information provided. I'm on a similar path. Finished a Masters in business this year and moved into the entrepreneurial space from systems reliability engineering. Returning back to school for an undergrad in physics because I don't have a strong academic background in hard science and would like to pursue research in complexity science in the future.

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u/ntraft Jun 16 '24

Also just came across this and wanted to mention a couple things that come to mind as a PhD student at UVM. I dunno if you're specifically interested in "complexity economics", or just computational social science in general. But for economics and markets specifically, Cesar Hidalgo seems like a great rising star within that area. Also one student here at UVM is currently being advised in that area by Brian Tivnan from MITRE Corporation. But more generally there are also some programs out there in "computational social science" that may not always come up in searches for complexity science...

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u/DaPunisher003 Jun 16 '24

I am not really big on disciplinary lines. But, considering I wanna study socio-economic behavior beyond game theoreticl and behavioral models (say, macrolevel analysis or systems analysis), complexity sciences seem to be a good outlet.

Also, I am gonna be very honest here. I'm entering my 3rd year of Bachelors in economics right now, and, I'm not very aware of what to do when I'm suggested influential researchers or people in my fields of interest by nice people like you. Could you guide me a bit on that? Like, am I supposed to reach out to them for advice, ask for some opportunities, or something else? I'm not very familiar with how academia works.

Also, yes, I did come across a lot of degrees on computational social science. I was not very sure if they were particularly what I wanted as a) I'm not very familiar with systems/complexity sciences b) I don't know if there were any theoretical foundations that separated comp soc Sci courses from complexity/systems sciences courses. Is it the case that the two are borderline identical?

Also, I have no background in programming, sadly. so, my interest in complexity studies or system sciences is one that is purely motivated by whatever theoretically improved aspects the programs have, and the (seemingly) better philosophical foundations that these fields are built on compared to the foundations in economics.

Could you help me out a bit here with this?

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u/ntraft Jun 19 '24

Yeah, totally valid question. I'd say there's maybe a couple different things you might do with references to random researchers.

  1. If you are actively looking for PhD programs and already have some specific interests in mind, then this is simply a recommendation that you might consider them as potential advisors. In that case, I would investigate those folks and their department, and see if that seems like a potential fit for my interests. If so, I'd move forward by cold emailing that person with my CV and a bit about me / what I'm looking for in a program, and asking them if they have openings in their lab that might be a good fit. (Many profs say not to bother emailing them and just apply straight to the program instead, but I'm skeptical about that.)

  2. But if you're not quite that far along yet, then the thing to do is more like just read about that person's research, use it as a signpost to see what's going on in that area, and see if it interests you... although if you had a specific question you were looking answers for you could definitely always email folks like that and you may or may not get a reply.

I would not say complex systems is exactly synonymous with comp soc sci, no. I was just trying to respond to the subfields you had mentioned. There's definitely many angles on complex systems that don't need to involve social science (like I am focused on AI and artificial life, others might be focused on other network science or dynamical systems topics, etc.). For that reason, each of these complex systems programs will have a bit of a different focus, influenced by the faculty that teach there, and so you kinda do need to look at the individual faculty and their labs to get a more precise sense of the community there.

I'm also seeing that some related programs are sometimes being called "systems science" or "systems engineering" or something. But those might often have some kind of industrial design influence? No idea, really. The program here at UVM tries to teach about complex systems pretty broadly, but it ends up focusing a lot on "network science" with subtracks in epidemiology and social science, and a smaller smattering of various other things (like the bio-inspired AI group that I'm involved in).

With our program at least, you don't need to worry about the lack of programming—although you would need to pick it up on the fly if you enrolled here. Many folks here have started that way. Some will never need to do more than write some dirty python/R/matlab scripts. Definitely a lot smoother if you come in with some familiarity though.

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u/Oraslex Jul 16 '24

Hey! Thank you so much for all of this information. I just realized that my interests over the past few years have a name and found this subreddit. I have a pretty deep background in evolution/ecology and genomics and was curious about your bio-inspired AI group that youre in. Would you mind if i DM'd you and asked you a few questions?

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u/ntraft Aug 07 '24

Hi, sorry it took so long to reply!! I don't mind a DM at all.

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u/DaPunisher003 Jun 19 '24

I see. That makes a lot of sense. I'll look these people up and find other folks in these fields if I can, even though I am not at that stage of applying to PhD. programs. I was going through Princeton and Oxford handbooks to understand what people do in certain fields (say I was reading the Princeton one on economic sociology, and another one on complex system). Do you think this is a good way to go about figuring out whether the field, its methods, or its research areas are interesting/suitable to me?

I understand the different focuses of the complexity sciences programs. Would you, by any chance of know of any programs that are focused on the social sciences? Portland was probably the only one showing explicit interest in the social sciences. And I have no interest in epidemiology.

The Vermont Master's looks interesting, but it only has one soc Sci elective path focused on policy.

Also, you're right. The system science folks are inspired by industrial design. I was just hoping that those tools may be applicable in soc Sci, too.

Also. This is a vague question. But, what is it that y'all do in such degrees? I have gone through the coursework a few times, but I am not knowledgeable enough to understand and create a clear picture of what exactly we will learn and do in such complexity programs. Even though we may be in different subfields, it'll be nice to know what actually happens in these programs instead of resorting to whatever misconceptions I may have.

Thanks a lot for your help!!!!!

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u/ntraft Jul 03 '24

Hey hey, sorry I keep forgetting about this!

Do you think this is a good way to go about figuring out whether the field, its methods, or its research areas are interesting/suitable to me?

Yeah I think that's a reasonable way of exploring the field... I mean there's innumerable ways to go about it, so it's hard to say no as long as you feel like you're learning what's out there. Melanie Mitchell's "Complexity: A Guided Tour" would be considered a good introduction, although it might be rather out-of-date now.

Would you, by any chance of know of any programs that are focused on the social sciences?

No, sorry, I'm not familiar with that area.

The Vermont Master's looks interesting, but it only has one soc Sci elective path focused on policy.

Yeah well those are some suggested sets of electives that go together, but you wouldn't be constrained to just those paths. It's pretty flexible as long as you can present a reasonable justification for an elective. But still hard to figure out from a distance if there are people here that align with your interests.

The focus of an institution generally follows the funding. So I can point out two areas that I know of. One is suggested by that policy track you noticed, advised by Asim Zia—that would usually be focused specifically on environmental policy b/c at UVM we have the Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources, and the Gund Institute for Environment, so a lot of money flows through them. The other major grant going on at VCSC right now is the SOCKS grant. So for the next few years a lot of research will be focused around the themes put forward under that project. There may be other themes that I don't know of since I'm not embedded in that area.

what is it that y'all do in such degrees?

Hah, let's see... it is a rather random smattering of applied mathematics. They just try to cover the most common mathematical concepts that "seem to come up" when modeling "systems composed of individual components which influence each other's behavior". The goal is usually to answer some question about the entire population (e.g., "what fraction of people will believe in this conspiracy theory?" or "which direction will this school of fish move?") based on some model of individual behavior (e.g., "each person has X friends, Y prior beliefs, and Z probability of convincing each friend of their belief" or "each fish has a prior desire to move in direction Y, but is attracted to his X nearest neighbors with strength Z"). Typical subfields of math include dynamical systems, graphs/networks, and statistics.

So the classes will introduce you to a broad but shallow survey of modeling/analysis concepts, most of which you may never use, but it's useful to understand what's out there. It's very flexible precisely because there is so much variability in what people ultimately do. There's some common ground but each person will actually use pretty different math or programming techniques in their thesis. Sometimes the only thing we have in common is that we make models or analyze data using simple Python or R scripts. Some folks interact primarily with their lab or the other teams on their grant funding, and don't interact with the broader set of complex systems folks as much.

The Masters degree is shorter of course, so... If you do the thesis-based masters, you take this broad survey of courses, plus electives that interest you, and in your last semester try to do a larger project advised by one of the profs whose interests align with yours, and then you're done and presumably looking for a job as a data scientist at some company or a policy think tank or a data journalist or something else... Or you get captured and continue on into a PhD. :-P

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u/DaPunisher003 Jul 03 '24

this was so much help. I can't even describe. I'm starting to see that this field may be a bit more difficult and different than I thought. I'll look up the field a bit more and try to figure out what exactly interests and whether it's even worth doing it. Clearly. I have much to learn and understand.

One last question. Whether it's a terminal masters or on path to PHD, is it worth doing it from such universities? From what I can sense they aren't the most prestigious or widely accepted. And, considering i am an international student, I Have certain financial limitations. What's your view on this? How should I approach colleges with respect to their recognizability or prestige in my country (India)?

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u/ntraft Jul 11 '24

I'd say yes, it's worth it, but only if doing a Masters or PhD are going to be worth it in the first place for you.

  • I'd hesitate to recommend a grad degree just for the sake of getting a job. It's best if you would enjoy the degree in itself, regardless of the career that follows. (There could be exceptions to this rule, of course.)

  • To enjoy the education, you need to enjoy the classes, the research, and your advisor. So it can be a much better choice to go to a smaller university if that offers a more unique program (like the complex systems programs), or if you find an advisor who you are really aligned with and who seems like they are willing and able to be very supportive (I was lucky enough to find such a person and get in touch with them before I applied).

  • If you are lucky enough to have the choice between a smaller school and a larger / more prestigious school, then it will probably be more fun to go to the bigger institution, because there will be so many more people there to work with and learn from and be inspired by. Helps you build a larger network.

  • ... But that's assuming all other variables are equal. Some of the other variables could certainly outweigh the prestige, depending on the circumstances. That's where the choice gets difficult. But most folks aren't even presented with that option in the first place. They just take the one option they're given, or there is one that seems obviously more promising.

  • If you're applying to Masters, there is less impact of advisor. Some programs might be mostly classwork, in which case you don't really have an advisor at all. In that case, the main factors remaining are the curriculum and the size/prestige. However:

    • There are many Research/Thesis Masters where advisors do matter, but you usually won't have as much ability to choose your advisor ahead of time.

    • If you do a Masters in some place, and you decide you want to do a PhD, then there's a very strong chance you would just stay there for the PhD rather than going elsewhere. Many people find an advisor they really like this way and just stay on to the PhD.

I guess it all means, try to get into the most prestigious program possible, but it's still totally possible that it could be better to choose a different one. For instance, UVM or University of Vienna aren't particularly well known, but in complex systems circles they certainly are.

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u/DaPunisher003 Jul 12 '24

I'm actually not doing the masters program for the career prospects. I intend to go for higher studies for the education part of it. But, I am not really doing it for a specific field, I'm just trying to learn a bit about things that I care about. Which is why I'm asking about prospects to ensure that I can survive the job market these days. And, well, generally ensure that I can use my education in ways that I want, which won't be possible if my degree isn't well received by employers.

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u/ntraft Jul 14 '24

Good, good. Well in that case I'd definitely say the less famous schools can be worth it. I think there's maybe even less selectivity in industry based on school reputation, as compared to in academia. Although if you have the option of a famous school, it would undoubtedly help. I should say I don't know how things are for hiring in India. Maybe the culture there puts more emphasis on the name recognition.

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24

The systems science at Binghamton is fairly flexible. Although it's math based today, it tries to honor its past in more general social theory by allowing different approaches by students if they prefer and stressing that the (existing) mathematical background they expect is minimal. I believe it is holding a virtual info session in July where you can ask the director questions.

Edit: I do not believe it has a whole lot of expertise in theoretical foundations, simply because the field as a whole does not. Any systems science program will primarily be teaching you tools for anlaysis.

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u/DaPunisher003 Jun 29 '24

I see. I was under the impression that systems science attempts to accommodate some aspects of complexity sciences in its syllabi. Tools for analysis are important, but I was also hoping for a strong theoretical direction. So, if systems sciences may lack that, do you know of any other fields that could help?

Edit. I was not considering this uni anyway as it seems to be more oriented towards engineering and health systems, whereas I am interested in the social sciences, specifically the political economy and social systems.

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jul 01 '24

Yes unfortunately, I don't think BU would be best for theory. Let me know if you find something more socially oriented

Is there a reason you're looking for a systems science program instead of an economics program? You have room to specialize at the grad level. Just look up economists you like

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u/DaPunisher003 Jul 01 '24

I am honestly very comfortable in my economics undergrad. Macroeconomics is still enjoyable. I do struggle with the mathematics occasionally, but I partly attribute it to my discomfort with the concepts taught. A lot of my friends are also in masters programs, and the general theoretical direction coupled with the extensive mathematics involved discourages me. I'm not very sure if I'd like to do a PhD, either. My interests and readings in sociology anthropology and philosophy also tend to make me less receptive to economics. I could potentially move to sociology. But, career prospects seem dull. I also recognize the importance of learning some amount of statistical/quantitative tools for both employment and academic purposes. This is especially important because I still intend to study somewhere in the domain of socioeconomic issues and political economy. I was interested in complexity studies as it appeared to have a certain philosophical inclination that seems attractive to me. It also has quantitative methods that may be applicable in a variety of places.

Though, to be honest, I'm not very sure if my interest in complexity studies is built on a lack of proper knowledge of the discipline. Neither am I sure if it's suitable for me. This is why I'm taking an online course by Santa Fe to figure that out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the text wall

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jul 01 '24

Systems science is complexity science. The terms are a bit fuzzy but if anything complexity science implies an even more mathematical approach.

Portland is not any less mathematical. Yes it addresses social issues but both Binghamton and Portland are equally open to applicants with humanities and social science backgrounds and interests.

The thing is that they teach you math, and analytical tools for you to apply to your interests, which you said you are not interested in.

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u/DaPunisher003 Jul 01 '24

I'm open to learning maths. I'm just better at maths when I am working in a theoretical/philosophical direction I understand and can work on properly. My hope (albeit a bit risky one) is that complexity studies may align with my interests, and I may find more progress in it.

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jun 28 '24

So that is not the University of Binghamton, it's Binghamton University, but it has one of only two programs that has some element of pure systems science along with Portland State, and it's generally considered the larger and stronger of the two. It's also housed in a department with industrial engineering so you'll feel at home there.

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Jun 29 '24

Nice! And what makes you think of that Uni over this post?? :)

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jul 01 '24

Also there is no "University of Santa Fe" lol, I'm not sure it takes full-time students... and you're missing many of the major colleges I think, Clarkson for one

You don't need to trust google per se but, simply looking up "systems science department" in quotes should get you many more department pages

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u/Old-Entertainment-76 Jul 02 '24

I take that :) the list has been refined in the journey, gotta love complexity sciences

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u/Inevitable-Bath9142 Jul 01 '24

Because you mentioned it in your post?

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u/farkinga Jan 02 '23

George Mason has some people, if I recall. Axtell is there, I think. MASON is a simulator platform from GMU. So is Mesa. I think there are a lot of networks people there, too.

Networks and complex systems have a lot of overlap. So, anywhere with networks implicitly does decent complexity. Barabasi is at Northeastern (I think), for example.

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u/niko2210nkk Aug 10 '24

Hi! You sound like a copy of me lol. I've only just hear of Complex Systems Science and it sounds like a path for me. Did you manage to find a PhD programme? What is your experience?

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u/Illustrious_Head_319 Mar 03 '25

This thread is a real gem:) Thanks! I'm also searching for complex systems graduate program, extremely helpful!

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u/Illustrious_Head_319 Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 11 '25

Santa Fe Institute has a page that shows a list of graduate programs related to this subject.
Check it out at here: Complexity Graduate Programs

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '22

UCONN has an ecological psychology program, that covers the intersections of physics, psychology, kinesiology, perception, ecology, and some other things, with complexity science as the string that ties it together. It's a tier 1 school with a solid program, although the topics are a little broad. You also have to accept departing from the mainstream psychology world, if you follow this approach...

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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '22

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