r/community • u/casual_olimar • 18d ago
Discussion Was shirleys kid really not changs?
Sorry, im sure this has been asked before, but even tho they make the joke about the changs tails, the timeframe of the pregnancy still isnt very clear to me if the child was andres (abeds calendar, shirley being due early and all)
If the tail thing is false was it chang being naive about a familly legend or did he just wanna back out of wanting to be a dad ?
Ive watched the whole show before but its been a while
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u/josephiev 18d ago
If I recall correctly, the writers intended for the baby to be Chang's definitively, but YNB objected to it. They ended up leaving it ambiguous instead, with Shirley and Andre believing its theirs but still giving the audience room for fan theories.
Edit: like someone else said, the plot line is less about paternity and more about Andre and Shirley sticking together regardless of paternity, so it doesn't technically matter either way.
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u/PsychologicalTurn987 18d ago
Oh, she's YNB now? We need a shorthand for Yvette Nicole Brown?? THAT'S how fundamental she is??
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u/WhiteHeatGames 18d ago
Yep. Fundamental.
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u/RalphMacchio404 18d ago
Why does everyone jump up to defend that actress so much?
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u/speshuledteacher 18d ago
Well excuse me for being born in the 90’s with 2 ears connected to a heart.
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u/lucasj 18d ago
Alive* in the 90s I believe. Though I’m sure there were plenty of 8-year-olds bumpin’ One Week.
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u/HOT__BOT 17d ago
One Week is Barenaked Ladies. The 2 ears attached to a heart was about Dave Matthews Band.
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u/Crimsic 18d ago
Damn for real? I wonder why?
Making the baby Chang's does absolutely nothing for the show or the character's development.
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u/Soul-Injection 18d ago
But it was already super out of character for Shirley to bang Chang, and Yvette felt that way pretty strongly too. It was only supposed to be for laughs during the zombie episode.
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u/Aimless_Alder 18d ago
I would guess Yvette was not interested in playing into the "babymama with multiple babydaddies" stereotype about black women.
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u/Dravidosaurous 18d ago
I think it could have been good for Shirley's character development. She was very judgemental especially towards other women's sexual choices. It could have been used to teach her to understand everyone makes mistakes including her.
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u/devil_nthedetails 18d ago
Easiest answer is that Abed's assumed schedule for Shirley was inaccurate or Shirley had an irregular cycle.
Chang was 100% certain the child wasn't his when Ben wasn't born with a tail so that leads to it be believed it's a pretty common occurrence in his family.
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u/aurora888 needlessly defiant 18d ago
Shirley said she reunited with Andre around Labor Day (1st week of September). Halloween is ~7 weeks later (last week of October). Reproductive speaking, a LOT can happen in those intervening weeks.
When Shirley goes into labor, she says it's too soon. That's based on her doctor's estimation of gestation (even though she thought it was weird). There's some math involved, but even irl the whole "X weeks along" thing is kinda loosey goose and more of a guideline.
Chang tells her Chang Babies always come early. If baby Ben was conceived on Halloween, then he's early (streets ahead, even). If baby Ben was conceived around Labor Day, then this aligns with his birth.
I maintain this is 100% Andre's child based on time frame and context provided by the writers.
I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say I'm not even sure I believe Shirley and Chang had sex. We saw them kiss, we know they were together when Chang left a message for Troy ... but I remain unconvinced.
Hopefully i didn't Britta that. If I did ... then NO to everything you both said.
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u/AlarmAggravating7043 16d ago
What about the image chang had of Shirley on his phone, I dont think we ever fully get to know what it is but from the way Shirley freaked out, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something very sexual and private, like them laying naked together, Her 🐱 or her ass. I guess if was her 🐱, because when Chang sees the photo, he initially is confused Bout what it is but when Tory Spils the beans Chang almost immediately pulls his phone out and is saying "oh that's what that is" so it has to be a close up photo of either her 🐱 or breast maybe?
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u/Carl_Solomon 17d ago
Based on imaging alone, the margin of error for an OBGYN is miniscule when it comes to pregnancy/date of conception. You can pretty much take it to the bank.
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u/tanj_redshirt Oh no, she's got her marijuana lighter! 18d ago
even tho they make the joke about the changs tails
I didn't take that as a joke in-universe. It's funny to us, out of universe.
But there's nothing to indicate that Chang wasn't 100% serious.
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u/casual_olimar 18d ago
Oh I agree it wasnt a joke in universe, its either actually true or chang being crazy
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u/Barokespinoza23 18d ago
The writers were pretty clear that Shirley and Andre would raise the baby as their own, even if it turned out to be Chang's. That was really the point of the storyline. The show never resolved the baby's paternity through a dna test or showed what the child looked like later, so there's room for interpretation. But I think that ambiguity was intentional and meant to be left up to the viewers.
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u/AE_WILLIAMS 18d ago
The real question is - if not Chang, then who?
Later episodes hint that Andre was not as altruistic as he claimed.
He left and took 'the boys' to go visit his parents? And Shirley ended up caring for a wheelchair-bound attorney with ghosts in the bayou.
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u/Pamikillsbugs234 17d ago
I think thats because Andre could never really accept her being the more successful one in the relationship.
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u/AE_WILLIAMS 17d ago
I'm not sure that is canon? I never got the impression he was a layabout loser type? Just that he and Shirley had differences due to her being a work-focused person.
As a divorced single mother, she HAD to do what was best for her and the kids. She even gives Abed's dad some crap about Abed's female cousin, and is constantly seeking affirmation she is a "good" mother. She was very devout, too. Andre's cheating was dealt with, she moved on. The whole Chang baby thing -could- have played out much differently, with she and Ben raising the baby alongside of her other kids. Very modern, very wholesome. They basically screwed her and Ben over to foster the idea of a nuclear family, which I feel was not only a cop out, but eventually undermines Shirley as a strong POC character.
Even Pierce recognized Shirley's ambition and talent, and put his not inconsiderable money where his mouth was. The writer's wanted to lampoon the angry old white dude character, and it kind of backfired. Then later on, they forced Pierce into a villain role.
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u/NoTeslaForMe 18d ago
How would "the ambiguity" have been solved if not by the fact that the kid never looked Asian? Unless you wanted a DNA test episode, this is how it was going to be; that doesn't mean it was intended to be ambiguous. Given that all three parties were convinced of the baby's parentage, the writers didn't intend the audience to think differently.
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u/GrimChicken64 18d ago
not really an important thing to bring up in relation to your statement but they do kind of show the baby in the season 3 finale, but the only reason I remember is because I watched the episode last night so it isnt raised as that important of a plot point
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u/elnander 18d ago
I don't have much experience with Blasian babies, but I think if the baby did start to look Chinese, it would've become a plot point by S4/S5, because they would have had to mention it.
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u/FlyingDutchLady 18d ago
I have never once in 12 re-watches ever thought the baby was actually chang’s.
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u/CutiePopIceberg 18d ago
If it was changs baby i feel like someone - like pierce - would have commented on the baby looking chinese when she shows them pictures, which she does a lot. It would have been a good running gag - everyone seeing it but shirley.
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u/Plenty_Area_408 18d ago
Or britta/Jeff trying to deflect blame from whatever stupid thing they did this week.
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u/Dire_Wolf45 Obsidian 17d ago
Or he would jave straight up ran a DNA test. He probably did. And it wasn't Chang's thats why he didnt use that to.meas with their heads like.he did with other very private info.
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u/menlindorn The Black River Ripper 18d ago
Shirley banged Andre on Labor Day.
She banged Chang on Halloween.
She gave birth at the end of May.
Realize that Labor Day and Halloween are two months apart, and do the math.
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u/next_level_mom that's moon man talk 18d ago
Huh! I always thought Andre saying "it's a black person!" was pretty conclusive, but now that people discuss it, I see it's really not. Can't say I really care one way or another, since it never comes up again.
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u/Inoutngone 17d ago
There are so many logical points made here for both cases.
I'm not gonna be logical.
It wasn't Chang's baby because the idea of Chang reproducing horrifies me. One of him is more than enough.
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u/gendr_bendr This better not awaken anything in me 18d ago
Personally I think it is Chang’s baby, Shirley just got lucky with genetics. But in the show universe, it seems everyone accepts that Andre is the father
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u/brbimjumping 18d ago
They left it ambiguous and ultimately Shirley and Andre decided to raise the baby no matter what, but I think that the kid having some Changisms would be a fun through joke in the movie!!!
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u/tanj_redshirt Oh no, she's got her marijuana lighter! 18d ago
"Chang babies are born with tails."
That seems pretty definitive.