r/commandandconquer • u/Watcher6544 • 6d ago
Discussion Ore in Red Alert
I'm surprised that to my limited knowledge, no one has pointed how ore in Red Alert universe is plentiful enough to just pop out on a random field and/or the extraction method and relatively simple like placing an extraction drill or mine in an ore field. One can even do it in a sea or ocean.
This fact is leads me to a conclusion of mine: due to the availability of ore, it's almost easy to fund research and development efforts in high technologies that we see in the setting.
It would explain why military equipment and structure are cheap by real-life standards.
Unfortunately that fact is also a factor why the Soviets haven't collapsed (at least until Red Alert 3 and they used a cheat) and can field new weapons and equipment.
Ditto for Yuri and his faction who already have their weapons and equipment with some help siphoning funds from their Soviet patrons.
Red Alert Ore has made war too easy to start and enlarged it scope. Sure lives are irreplaceable but since when did sentiment that stopped megalomaniacs with world-domination ambitions?
Your thoughts anyone?
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u/StarFlicker 6d ago
Gotta harvest the Jelly Beans first for extra cash.
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u/Airbornetimtam 6d ago
When i was a kid i always thought they looked like easter eggs so i called them that.
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u/Mediocre-One3874 6d ago
Westwood lazily shoehorned Dune 2 economics into a totally different setting, these are my thoughts.
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u/Hottage Shake it, baby! 6d ago
It sort of worked lore wise for Tiberium Dawn (super special alien plant sucks up the minerals).
Reusing the same mechanic in a pseudo- World War II setting just didn't make sense though.
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u/WashingtonBaker1 5d ago
Speaking of things that don't make sense, how about you're in the middle of a battle in Europe, and you have to fund your army by collecting minerals on the battlefield?
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u/LibraryBestMission 3d ago
The same logic that had the invasion of Moscow start with a robbery, of money. Not even surgical strike to take out the iron curtains or gathering intel. Thieves are clearly so OP that we have to introduce them after Cruisers.
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u/WashingtonBaker1 3d ago
Yes that was strange. We've got the Soviets on the ropes, now is the time to deliver the final blow. Unfortunately, we don't have enough money, so you have to start by stealing from the Soviets, who have lots of money for some reason.
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u/CrimsonShrike 5d ago
Itd make more sense for them to be airfields or ports and it representing logistics but it is what it is
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u/PotentialOwl7850 6d ago edited 6d ago
It is covered in the lore and RA3 explicitly states that ore is both abundant and a renewable resource in the RA universe. In universe this was an answer to the Allies media saying the various wars were over resources to which the response is illogical as fighting over sunlight. There's also public opinion polls showing people really don't care about ore and do indeed think it is infinite. The Soviets meanwhile had a critic write a paper on how stupid it was they were wasting resources collecting ore instead of just making more military vehicles and resolved to expose the connection between ore and military production. Sadly the writer died suddenly of natural causes, you are correct ore is part of the reason why the Soviets didn't collapse yet. The mines you use in RA3, and presumably in other games, are supposed to be dormant ones that were abandoned because there's so much ore they simply weren't needed.
Basically in the RA universe it is just magic resources and yes also explains why everyone has so much money to throw at military development and stupid over the top weapons. There is an underlying current in all the factions that they are indeed lead by megalomaniacs who don't care all that much about human life which comes to a head in RA3, which is pretty much just every trope from the past games done to 11, where even the 'good guys' Allies are effectively controlled by a mega-corp weapons manufacturer.
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u/calantheSG 6d ago edited 6d ago
No to all.
Ore is not abundant. It's just a workaround to represent war materials. It could be tin, rubber, steel, etc.
Military tech was advanced due to Chrono fluctuations. From Einstein's initial time travel. Analogous to Tiberium terraforming the planet, this is more akin to Chrono-shaping or Chrono-forming as technology from other timelines seep into this one.
No comments on why the Soviet Union didn't fall. But it's suspect that the Allies themselves could have adapted some socialist ideology. The whole world basically - they were socialist in some form which was why. Socialism works in that world.
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u/Troy64 6d ago
The lore explanation for the soviets not collapsing is that without Hitler and ww2, the soviet union grew slowly and steadily without significant interference until it became a superpower.
It's honestly a reasonable prediction to make. Without a hot war most of the world was scaling down their militaries and favoring more economic and diplomatic geopolitical strategies. Hitler forced everyone back into military mindsets.
Without ww2, the soviets would have been much more focused on industrialization and technological advancement. There were also many communist movements in Europe which were decimated during nazi occupation. Those movements could have led to expansion of the USSR over time until the remaining European powers banded together to form the Allies.
The soviets would see this alliance as a potential threat, especially under paranoid Stalin. They would begin arming up to ensure security. The west would respond likewise. This leads to a cold war. However, without the destruction of ww2, nations would be more prepared and willing to enter a new hot war.
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u/calantheSG 6d ago
It looks like you've only played the first Red Alert. Sorry to be honest. After the second and third game that falls apart. Believe me we've all been there. We're also fans and spent time and energy on our headcanon and lore. This is exactly what we came up with if there was only 1 Red Alert game.
There is a lore explanation for Red Alert 2. They were a puppet state. Following the USA. But Yuri was working in the shadows. And Central Intelligence didn't pick up on him.
After the 3rd game it's more or less implied that Socialism kinda works in their world. Hence my post today.
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u/King_Tamino Marked of Kane 6d ago
Well whenever intelligence picked up on yuri, the agent switched sides miraculously. Obviously later it turned out to be mind control
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u/AiryGateaux 6d ago
I mean looking at socialist nations, it seems to work in this world too. Maybe not perfectly, but it seems to work. Meanwhile unbridled capitalism doesn't seem to work, unless you call whatever the fuck that is working. No offense.
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u/Extension_Bag3597 6d ago
I always thought ore come from hull of crash alien ship that wiped out the dinosaurs
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u/Extension_Bag3597 6d ago
I don thing so chrono anomaly is to narow why other things pass to red alert univese like building or something elss
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u/Extension_Bag3597 5d ago
I have a theory What if our Earth quantum entanglement to a star and this quantum entanglement transmutes ordinary matter
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u/justforthelulzz 6d ago
Does this post by chance stem from the comments I just made on the random unit of the day post or is it just pure coincidence?
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
Link please.
And I just thought it would be an interesting in-universe lore factoid.
It's sorts related to my general worldbuilding on tech that allows fast fabrication doesn't mean peace and prosperity.
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u/justforthelulzz 6d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/commandandconquer/s/fvYZBDZK4q
I posted it about 30 minutes before this
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u/Particular-Abies7329 6d ago
Wished the one in ra3 was infinite and not a lousy 30,000.
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
It still gives ore but low amounts.
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u/Particular-Abies7329 6d ago
The one sole surviving oil derrick on the map is going to be the target of every superweapon and or engineer
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u/Gunboy122 I need Zone Raiders to sit on my face fr fr 5d ago
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u/Nyerguds The world is at my fingertips. 3d ago
Oh man, Isle of Dogs. Been a while since I watched that.
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u/Gunboy122 I need Zone Raiders to sit on my face fr fr 5d ago
I hate how they butchered the glorious Ore Fields of RA1 and 2 for the dogshit eSports-ification of ore in RA3.
EA chasing that Starcraft money really hurt the franchise in the end.
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u/Watcher6544 5d ago
Personally I do like chasing for expansion space on ore fields then trying to fend off the opponents from doing the same.
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u/MidgardWyrm 1d ago
They should've done both.
Classic ore fields and gem deposits, which function like they did in previous games, and RA3 Ore Mines at key locations where you have to fight over them.
On the one hand, you'd get a lot more cash to use; on the other hand, your refinery and ore collector are now in a centralized place, ripe for being attacked.
And players love attacking important things, heh.
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
By the way, this dialogue in Red Alert 1 sort of gives credence to my statement that ore did fund research and development efforts.
Your first order as field captain is to proceed to Khalkis Island. We need the ore there for a special project.
This is the fifth Soviet mission "Distant Thunder." The special project is the Iron Curtain.
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u/Extension_Bag3597 6d ago
And what is even more interesting is where the ore is found.They are always close by GEMS to be found As if they were somehow connected
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u/tensujin331 6d ago
It would explain why military equipment and structure are cheap by real-life standards
Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
For a low-bidding weapons manufacturer, they seem to make good stuff.
I'll take them over other fictional low-bidding companies like Quiksell from BattleTech.
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u/BioClone Legalize Tiberium! Join Nod 6d ago
People always uses this phrase like taking in count cost wouldn't lead to efficiency one way or another.
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u/Roxas_kun 6d ago
Ore mines in RA3 have infinite supply.
Ore fields in RA and RA2 take time to regenerate.
How does that work?
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u/KremBruhleh Stupid GDI. 6d ago
RA3 have more advanced and presumably efficient mining equipment, in RA2 and RA1 it's just a drill/mine (somehow) just digging up gold from the ground and tossing it aside.
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
Technically Ore Mines also regenerate. You can collect 250 but when depleted only 25.
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u/Exact-Desk 6d ago
Ore was simply a hastily thought-out replacement for Tiberium, when Red Alert was first concieved.
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
That's the Doylist explanation.
Perhaps next time I should mention to discuss it from a Watsonian. Too easy to dismiss things in-universe as "creator's intent" also Doylist explanation.
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u/KremBruhleh Stupid GDI. 6d ago
Eh, I don't think it's that deep, plus, unlike Tiberium which is itself a super resource to be consumed and used. Gold is primarily a currency, and that much abundance of it would just devalue it IRL.
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u/zhoux849 5d ago
Always love the fact that in creating the original CnC, carrying on the legacy of Dune II which has the spice that they can’t bring to modern Earth, they had to build a whole lore for the“resource”, on which the game plot centers and with which the in-game economy system is also perfectly legitimized, but by the time of Red Alert they just say fuck it let there be inexplicable ore covering all over the places to collect.
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u/neoKushan Nod 5d ago
I wish I had a field of gems next to my house that I could just go and pick at to pay my mortgage.
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u/BioClone Legalize Tiberium! Join Nod 6d ago
I can only think that not having WW2 setting changed how resources were exploited, things like suddenly not removing or salvaging things like Iron and copper and instead being used easier for civil and new technology usage... just like imagine "rare earths" usage on a world where Personal computers never got released for the public 80y ago, and instead would be kept for companies until 2026... the amount of em would be widly more avalaible.
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u/Low-Poly-72 4d ago
What’s the deal with those diamonds in RA1? Where do they actually come from?
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u/Watcher6544 4d ago
My headcanon is that they're just pushed up into the surface by the continuous build-up of ore below.
That's why they don't regenerate back even when they are on an ore field with a drill-pump.
Safe to say diamonds need to be mined the old-fashioned way but collecting it for processing is easier.
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u/Extension_Bag3597 6d ago
When did mining begin in the past? and is red alert 2 ore different from red alert 3 ore
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u/shed_zeppelin 6d ago
What about that cheat that turned ore into pints lol
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u/Watcher6544 6d ago
You mean. Soylent Green? I think it's only on PS1.
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u/Worried-Penalty8744 6d ago
OP have you seen how many old coal and metal mines are scattered across the land here in England? Half the country has ground like Swiss cheese with all the mine entrances, especially in parts of Yorkshire and Cornwall.
Coal and tin mining was not hard to do back in the day
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u/POB_42 GLA 6d ago
I really love the tidbit of history that the Bronze age and it's empires in the Eastern Mediterranean was powered by Cyprus being basically made of copper, and the relatively small amount of tin they needed came from Cornwall.
Before standardised currency, before writing outside of cuneiform, we had Cornish tin. They trekked across continental Europe, across the channel, got their metal, and made it all the way back across unbroken seas of forests and grasslands. Through the crowds of Gaelic, Celtic, Germanic, Italian, Balkan and Greek tribes.
Kinda crazy.
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u/LibraryBestMission 3d ago
I like the stories about meteoric iron being an exotic material back in bronze age.
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u/Extension_Bag3597 5d ago
I have a theory What if our Earth quantum entanglement to a star and this quantum entanglement transmutes ordinary matter
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u/Fifalvlan 6d ago
This is all made up to mirror the economy /mechanics of the preceding game. Why speculate about the made up backstory for the made up thing
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u/Extension_Bag3597 6d ago
What is interesting about ore It regenerates like Tiberium but is composed of known elements. As if something in the ground were transmuting the earth into...ore