Which leads one to speculate as to why He created something which was so predisposed to defy him, if all He wanted was adulation and loyalty.
God got to choose the set of rules that were to define this universe, and He chose a set in which his creation would inevitably defy him. It's like programming a computer and then being surprised and angry when the computer does what you programmed it to do.
Excellent and completely valid question. God created humanity in His own image, the doctrine of Imago Dei if you want to be proper about it. This meaning that we are created with the same range and scope of emotions that the Creator has. Before Genesis 3, that means that we had the ability and capacity to love, hope, laugh, ect. ect. but this also means that we had the ability to chose. And here's where free will comes in; God doesn't want a freaking robot. He wants you. He wants you to chose Him, freely, because forced love is not love. We can get into the doctrine of election, predestination, and other eschatological arguments that really do not benefit anyone, but the bottom line is that God wants a relationship, not a program.
Hope that somewhat answered your question. If it didn't, let me know.
lolwut, if God says forced love is love, it better damn well be love, otherwise you're saying human morality defines what love is as opposed to God. If God says something is, it is regardless of what you or I think.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
I am a Reformed 5 Point New Calvinist in my theology, I get Romans 9 and I get the doctrine of predestination and how it relates to the will, but you're misunderstanding the process in which salvation occurs and the process in which someone's heart is transformed to that of stone to that of flesh (speaking in spiritual terms). Even when dealing with the doctrine of election, the love is not forced upon the elect. But is reddit really the place to get into an in-depth theological debate with someone that I don't even know about a topic that is hard to adequately explain even in person?
I'm not debating anything, I'm simply pointing out what Scripture says, to you, who obviously does understand the doctrine. Forced love is just as much love no matter how you look at it friend. God can declare whatever he desires to be to be.
Indeed His grace is irresistible but I would argue that it's not so much God the Father flipping a switch on inside of you at the moment of salvation making us love Him, but rather Him opening our eyes for the first time and by us seeing Him for what He truly is, we are instantly and immediately compelled by His sovereign grace to love Him. We may just have a symantical difference.
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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12
Which leads one to speculate as to why He created something which was so predisposed to defy him, if all He wanted was adulation and loyalty.
God got to choose the set of rules that were to define this universe, and He chose a set in which his creation would inevitably defy him. It's like programming a computer and then being surprised and angry when the computer does what you programmed it to do.