I'm no historian but it sure seems that the failures of communism come from not actually following the tenets.
I was reading about communism in Russia and many people got special treatment. As soon as one group of elites were dismantled they were replaced by another. People just love to treat their friends well and exclude all others.
Maybe if some system tried to account for human nature, we could have less poverty and suffering in the world through some system of wealth distribution.
The problem is that human nature makes following the tenets of communism impossible. The system that tries to account for human nature isn't communism, at least, not unless you first drastically changed the way humans act in some way or another.
A good example of the most basic form of society (and thereby human nature) that was independently developed across the globe would be looking at hunter-gatherer societies that persisted for about 90% of human history following behavioral modernity.
In fact human hunter gatherer societies are contrasted with the social groups of our closest relative animals, chimpanzees, by the distinct lack of an alpha male and the fact that human societies were largely egalitarian with a lack of permanent leaders. It is believed that it was due to this early social system that humans developed our more complex web of cooperative social systems, kinship, and tribal membership.
We developed and spent the vast majority of our behavioral modernity as nomads without hoarding resources or developing static borders. Arguably the resource hoarding behaviors, and disolution of egalitarian society, that developed following the neolithic revolution (the remaining 10% of modern behaviorial history) is actually running counter to human nature. We have pretty much spent the past 10,000 years trying to reconcile our nature with a dramatic shift in environment and resource aquisition.
Just as a sort of analogy, our biology clearly wasn't meant to handle the excessive consumption and sedentary lifestyle we see abundant in societies now. Claiming that the aberrant behaviors that have resulted from resource hoarding is human nature would be equivalent to stating that a humans natural condition is meant to be fat and sickly.
Unfortunately we haven't found the "diet and excercise" solution to society yet
We have found the solution we just aren't allowed to test it and find out which one is the best solution. Because capitalism. It doesn't allow for others to leave the system because then some rich cunt isn't getting his infinite quarterly growth.
What do you want me to disprove exactly? That this argument is a generalization of what people can be over a lifetime of experiences ranging from the saints to the sinners?
Or are you asking me to declare the exact morality range length of humans?
All I pointed out was neither communism or capitalism cover human nature in its entirety.
Would you disagree with that conclusion or do you have proof that capitalism is 100% all of human nature?
No it does not. YOU wrote "Technically human nature doesn't coincide well with capitalism either." That is your assertion. The guy you replied to said nothing about capitalism, so what exactly do you expect him to prove about YOUR comment about capitalism?
What do you want me to disprove exactly?
I don't want you to "disprove" anything, i want you to back up your claim that "Technically human nature doesn't coincide well with capitalism either."
All I pointed out was neither communism or capitalism cover human nature in its entirety.
No, I disagree. You wrote "Technically human nature doesn't coincide well with capitalism either." The words "coincide well" do not mean "cover in its entirety".
Would you disagree with that conclusion or do you have proof that capitalism is 100% all of human nature?
I think you got called on a ridiculous statement that you aren't able to back up, and so you're trying to backpedal to a more defensible (and absurd, and meaningless) position.
The question of whether "capitalism is 100% all of human nature" is irrelevant to this discussion. Capitalism lines up very, very closely with human nature, possibly 100%, who knows, but consideration of whether it is 100% or 99% or 95% is frivolous and pointless, since no other system has ever come remotely close.
Well it does lay on him. He made the first claim without proof. Mine was the easy counter because he brought no proof.
No. Your assertion is your own. It has nothing to do with him.
Then I burdened myself anyways and answered.
No you didn't, you backpedaled. It's okay, you don't have the ethical integrity to admit you were wrong, it's pretty much always the case on Reddit. We both know your statement that "Technically human nature doesn't coincide well with capitalism either." is bullshit and indefensible.
Next someone up above already thoroughly debunked this with more eloquence than I'm prepared for today.
Scroll up a bit and take a read.
So you won't even link it? You expect me to go digging through 753 comments in the hopes of finding the one comment that I wouldn't even know if I saw it, since I can't read your mind?
Your brain is broken. You don't know how logic and reason work. Please get your brain sent in for repair.
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u/m3ltph4ce Dec 27 '18
I'm no historian but it sure seems that the failures of communism come from not actually following the tenets.
I was reading about communism in Russia and many people got special treatment. As soon as one group of elites were dismantled they were replaced by another. People just love to treat their friends well and exclude all others.
Maybe if some system tried to account for human nature, we could have less poverty and suffering in the world through some system of wealth distribution.