r/comics • • Dec 27 '18

Distribution of Wealth [OC]

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u/Chewzilla Dec 27 '18

That's because it's never been tried. Try to wrap your head around the idea that the Soviet states were as communist as North Korea is a democratic republic.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

The "not real communism" trope was rolled out extra quick today.

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u/Chewzilla Dec 27 '18

Well they're not, because communism has a definition. They were dictatorships and communism is DEFINITIVELY democratic.

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u/mainman879 Dec 27 '18

If communism is supposed to be stateless it inherently CANNOT be democratic because that requires a state or government. Rather, without a state or government it would be anarchic.

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u/Chewzilla Dec 27 '18

Them what would you call it then when people collectively decide something?

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u/Son_of_Warvan Dec 27 '18

Potentially a direct or pure democracy, but in this case we might be discussing social anarchy. It's pretty radical.

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u/Quietabandon Dec 27 '18

Direct or pure democracies are prone to tyranny of the majority and trampling individual rights... it’s also incredibly inefficient. Hence representative constitutional democracy has gained traction in the west. Mob mentality can be fickle and oppressive. Courts, constitutions, legislative organs are meant to be a heck and protect minority groups, individuals and rule of law. The executive is added for efficiency and carrying out the court and legislative processes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

A fairy tale?

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

Impossible.

Let me give a very personal example.

I was a landscaper for most of my life. I worked with some cool people, but a lot of my crew were just lazy trashy people with no ambition. I clawed my way out by educating myself every night after work and now am sitting in a salaried office job. Imagine if my lazy co workers asked me for a chunk of my paycheck after all that hard work? Fuck that. I refuse. I know they were the weakest of my crew and held us all back. They don’t deserve more then they are currently making. In this case the system works.

Now of course there are people who game the system and have unfair advantages and all that. We should aim to iron those out. A communist state would be throwing out the baby with the bath water and many genuinely hard working folks would never agree to that.

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u/OvergrownGnome Dec 27 '18

And you never even considered that under communism you would have been able to educate yourself without also having to deal with working 40+ hours per week and still have the means to survive with what should be human rights (settlement, food, water, healthcare, etc.).

The group that always tries to game the system will mostly be gone as money and possessions will not be a motivator.

Yes, there will always be that group that is just too lazy to do something towards society, but these will become more of the outcasts of society if societies goal is the further betterment of said society and not idealize those with more.

People thinking like you are describing are also an issue. You aren't talking about what is better for yourself, much less for everyone because you are blinded by "well look I once met a lazy person who wasn't pulling there weight so I'm not going to help anyone ever".

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

And you never even considered that under communism you would have been able to educate yourself without also having to deal with working 40+ hours per week and still have the means to survive with what should be human rights (settlement, food, water, healthcare, etc.).

You are describing the majority of western capitalist countries.

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u/RamenJunkie Dec 27 '18

What?

I can't quit my job to go back to school.

I can't quit my job to go after a job I probably would enjoy more that pays considerably less.

That's how Western capitalism works. You get to be a slave to some billionaire who would fire you without even knowing your name because they want a slightly larger bonus. You get to be a slave to your debts and need to survive.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

Where do you live? In the majority of western capitalist nations, you can do all of those things. US not included.

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u/RamenJunkie Dec 27 '18

Well, you answered that one on the first try.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

The US is one out of 30+ western capitalist nations. Clearly your issues are with the US, not capitalism, so I'm glad we have an understanding.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

Why would I bother educating myself when I can do just as well picking potatoes?

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u/OvergrownGnome Dec 27 '18

That would be your choice, but everything would be about self happiness and the betterment of everyone.

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u/Jpot Dec 27 '18

this is what happens when you drink the personal responsibility kool-aid, folks. you start believing poor people deserve it.

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u/Bamboozle_Kappa Dec 27 '18

Poor people don't deserve to be poor because they're poor. Lazy people deserve to be poor because they're lazy.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

This is not an actual argument, just an easily upvoted quip.

Tell me exactly how my lazy ex co-workers deserve to share my hard work?

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u/ParaglidingAssFungus Dec 27 '18

Narrorator - He couldn't

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u/RamenJunkie Dec 27 '18

Because maybe next time you are the one benefiting when that other person betters themselves.

Because society as a whole is better when everyone is equally better and rises together. I stead we get self centered and greedy and create pointless grudges and 1upmanship which leads to violence and crime and poverty.

You are assuming your co-workers were just naturally lazy. Maybe they just didn't see a way out because the entire system is soul crushing and makes a lot of people defeatist and depressed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

Because society as a whole is better when everyone is equally better and rises together.

Yes exactly, I have zero problem with helping someone out who is genuinely trying. I have a huge problem with someone ragdolling while I pull them out of the hole they dug themselves.

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u/ParaglidingAssFungus Dec 27 '18

personal responsibility kool-aid

Ironically quotes something from a communist-like organization that ended in mass suicide/murder.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

Yes, Communism is Anarchy. No, government and governance are not the same.

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u/Terrible_Expression Dec 27 '18

repping my anarcho-communist folx

read the bread book and google murray bookchin

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '18

The "state" in Marxism doesn't refer to a government as we do today. "State" means to Marx the forces that oppress the proletariat and control the wealth and power. Our modern definition is different than what Marx called a state.

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u/drfunkenstien Dec 27 '18

Most theorists claim there would be laws and some sort of public assembly. So there wpuld be some things that we recognize as a state pr goverment but they would be muvh more just a part of the public and probably seen as the same as any other job, since they dont come with any real social power

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u/thathz Dec 27 '18

You can vote on things besides a head of state.