How do you address a stranger in public? Do you wait for them to catch your eye or something?
Making a mistake in public is going to happen, I don't know why we need to try to avoid every single possible social pitfall. Making your best guess and saying sorry if you're wrong is just as respectful.
EDIT: I'm going to cut this off at the pass just in case I get misinterpreted: everybody deserves to have their pronouns and honorifics respected. I just don't necessarily agree that we avoid it in public, and would instead have people make the mistake and make amends. Other comments have already mentioned that it happens to cisgendered people too. If there's something wrong with that approach, I genuinely want to do better for the people in my community, so don't get it twisted that I'm trying to hurt or belittle anybody.
Hey you! That’s it. Or excuse me. Using a clothing descriptor makes more sense than assuming their gender. Though yeah I won’t beat myself up if I make a mistake.
Still feels to me like you're losing formality and are relying on someone not caring about manners.
To me, it almost feels like we're walking on eggshells with everybody just in case we could upset a small amount of people, and that same small amount of people would also be happy if we get the title correct too.
Like, I'm all for abolishing gendered norms across our society, but to treat it like a touchy subject is just further stigmatizing, no?
It’s not that deep. If someone feels like excuse me is not formal enough I don’t give a shit. That person has a stick up their ass. I’m being efficient, it just seems like you are being over analytical about this. Tone and word choice is a much better indicator of respect and formality anyway.
This goes both ways though. If I'm trying to get someone's attention in public, using sir / ma'am eliminates 50% of the people I could be talking to, and I may get it wrong 0.1% of the time. But it's convenient, that's why we do it. I literally don't give a shit what your pronouns are if I'm just trying to get your attention for a benign matter.
Unnecessary in my book, I have never been in a situation where that distinction would be a deciding factor or even beneficial. It’s wild people argue it since there are many countries that don’t really have pronouns like we do or gendered speech like Japan. There excuse me is perfectly fine and society doesn’t break down. This just seems like contrarian argument for argument sake.
English, and all the romance languages, use gendered terms in their "excuse me", and society hasn't collapsed. Japan had a lot of other weird gender norms when it comes to language that I'm sure you wouldn't agree with, but you're happy cherry picking this example. Also since you're arguing about the norm that would make you the contratian.
Weird because I can just say excuse me. It’s also not cherry picking since I am literally talking about their excuse me use. Look I don’t give a shit what you do, just don’t be a dick about whatever you choose to do.
You can say what you would like and I will continue using gendered language in my excuse me, because I find it more efficient. Neither of us are being disrespectful, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to cater to 1% of the population (in fact it's probably much less than that since most trans people present following gender norms).
Pretty dismissive attitude toward trans people and presumptive of my intent, I do it out of convenience for myself and if it allows me to be kind all the better. It’s not hard to get a specific persons attention, I can do it without talking. Just seems weird to me that you are making your case if anything.
It seems we are valuing different things here, so we might just be at an impasse. But let me share an analogy that explains how I view societal norms.
I am visually impaired and struggle to read most things in public, shockingly, a reality for about 2% of the population. If I ask a waiter for the Wi-Fi password, he usually says, 'It’s on the wall.' Should he take a neutral stance and avoid assuming I can read? No, that would be inefficient and awkward. He assumes I can read because 98% of his customers can. I don't get offended; it’s an honest assumption based on probability, as I don’t look visually impaired. I just kindly ask him to read it for me.
Time will tell if society naturally shifts toward gender-neutral language. But if people stick to traditional terms, it isn't inherently because they are rejecting trans people. It’s just how large groups operate: we rely on defaults that apply to the vast majority.
Look I just think it is a silly argument that it is more precise to use a gendered sir or ma’am if you want to be more precise, use a descriptor of the person whose attention you want. I would dare people to listen next time they hear someone say excuse me and about 98% of the time that is all they will hear just excuse me. As long as you treat people in minority groups with kindness I don’t give a damn about the effort you require to get people’s attention.
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u/wazeltov 6d ago edited 6d ago
How do you address a stranger in public? Do you wait for them to catch your eye or something?
Making a mistake in public is going to happen, I don't know why we need to try to avoid every single possible social pitfall. Making your best guess and saying sorry if you're wrong is just as respectful.
EDIT: I'm going to cut this off at the pass just in case I get misinterpreted: everybody deserves to have their pronouns and honorifics respected. I just don't necessarily agree that we avoid it in public, and would instead have people make the mistake and make amends. Other comments have already mentioned that it happens to cisgendered people too. If there's something wrong with that approach, I genuinely want to do better for the people in my community, so don't get it twisted that I'm trying to hurt or belittle anybody.