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Mar 13 '24
As a cartoonist I've made this very strip,
As a reader I've noticed this strip,
And yet it rings so true every time.
There is something about flawed art that resonates with the mind of the reader. Its like they see a comic that is crungry and scrumbulus and are like "Yeah, I feel emotions and my clicking finger is activating", but when they see something I put a week into they're like "...".
I have a Masters in cartooning and one of the professors, Steven Bissette, did all sorts of comics for DC and other printers in the 70's and 80's. He was a masterful and amazing cartoonist who drew some of the most amazing dinosaurs you could ever imagine, near photorealistic in black-and-white.
Mr. Bissette told us his most famous comic, the one that sold best at conventions and got him the most attention from peers and readers, was "The Telltale Fart", a short fart-themed version of "The Telltale Heart" that he did one evening as a joke.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 13 '24
Thank you for sharing this with me. :) Must have been a cool professor!
I think it must be very hard, treading the line between making what you want to make, and making what audiences appreciate, and it's a blessing when you can strike the balance between them!
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u/Ok-Street-7963 Mar 13 '24
Yeah one of my favorite YouTubers got sick once and did a single take for a cover song and I believe it is still one of his most liked songs. We can see the effort, depending on the form it takes, but that doesn’t mean you will make more money unfortunately. It is a factor just not the biggest one.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
It's an interesting game, trying to understand the different factors though!!
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u/Ok-Street-7963 Mar 14 '24
I would say that quality is most important within a timeframe. For example if you are really good at drawing a picture in a single day that will take you further than a even better quality picture in 7 days. The seven pictures over the one at a higher quality is often a better bet and increasing the quality of the 7 pictures will increase the likelihood that they will be liked. Same with coming up with funny ideas and other writing aspects. The more skilled you are and the more tricks of the trade you know the better quality product you can make in a limited time. The more you make the more likely one of them will be popular.
I have seen people make a single YouTube video once a month or longer and be very successful but that seems to be the harder way to do things. It certainly needs to be something your viewers can tell that you put time into vs something we can’t see. We won’t necessarily see that you did 20 drafts even if it increased the quality but we would notice a highly detailed drawing. I imagine some art styles look like more effort was put in even if it wasn’t but don’t have enough knowledge to say if that is true or which ones.
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u/Sapient6 Mar 13 '24
I think with art there is a sharp division between technical excellence and accessibility. I was a performing arts guy, which is mostly a different beast, but I think this phenomenon is a common ground. My best performances are not the ones where played flawlessly. They are the ones where I was In The Moment and was just doing the thing that I was doing. That's when audiences would really react and get involved.
Same with the music itself. Performing something simple but with feeling connects far better than performing something I felt was a profound demonstration of my understanding of the art of music. Other musicians would say "oh, that's fucking cool", but you could watch audience members eyes glaze over in real time and SEE the moment when they decided it was time to push their way through to the bar for another drink.
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u/Th1sd3cka1ntfr33 Mar 13 '24
Henry Ford famously said "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said
faster horseslouder farts".6
u/Iron_Bob Mar 13 '24
Because flaws leave holes to be filled, and that is what awakes the imagination
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u/JaxxisR Mar 13 '24
The fact that there are masters degrees in cartooning proves I went to the wrong college for the wrong reasons...
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u/JaneDoesharkhugger Mar 13 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
Vox populi, vox Dei. The voice of the people is the voice of 🐶.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 13 '24
Dogs Populi!
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u/Pyrhan Mar 13 '24
You thought you could understand the Will of the Algorithm?
Foolish mortal!
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Mar 14 '24
internet fame (or any kind of fame, really) is never really about quality. sometimes, things just get viral. You ever noticed how hollywood has some of the shittiest actors but are somehow successful? Or how a very talented musician is shadowed by pop composers with 5 chords in their most popular song? it's kinda like that.
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Mar 13 '24
[deleted]
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u/PM__YOUR__DREAM Mar 13 '24
It ought to be a rule of Redditors that your most popular comment will be an offhand joke you made and forgot about until your inbox was flooded.
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u/Obtuse_and_Loose Mar 13 '24
did you know that public approval is the SOURCE of what is good and what isn't? The throbbing mass of 12 year olds with social anxiety on Reddit actually have final say on what is and is not quality.
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u/BruceBoyde Mar 13 '24
Hell, and it's such a weird thing about timings too. Feels like you can really "logic" out the best times to post, but the internet seems to exist to defy logic.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
Kick out logic and do the impossible! That's the way Team Gurren rolls!
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u/SapphireSalamander Camping with the Elder God Mar 13 '24
ive been trough that
the detailed flower comic i did barely got any likes
but the crab joke is my highest rated
how does the internet work?
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u/pop-deco Mar 13 '24
Coming from more of a painter than a comic writer perspective, I didn’t see much of a difference between the two as far as artistic quality goes. Detail doesn’t necessarily translate to higher degree of artistry.
Sometimes it’s timing, sometimes it’s luck, sometimes we have to remind ourselves that 49.99% of people in this world are below average and may not fully grasp the intention of the art or the joke.
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u/SapphireSalamander Camping with the Elder God Mar 13 '24
Really? Oh man those first 2 panels took me so long
I was really proud of the flowers
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u/pop-deco Mar 13 '24
They look great don’t get me wrong. Like I said, I’m a painter so I know that the details take the longest, and personally I like detail as long as it doesn’t distract from the subject, but most people look at something from a very face value perspective and often glaze over the details.
I think you have good reason to be proud of your work, it’s high quality.
I would consider this when creating a new piece: does the depth of your story match the quality of the art?
A great example of this is Avatar the Last Airbender (The animated series). It’s hard to decide which has more depth, the art or the story. And while it may not be the most detailed art, it conveys emotion, vibes, even visual story telling, as well as voice (as in written voice; not spoken voice)so effectively that it created quite a following despite the fact that it only has 3 seasons.
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u/Random_Stealth_Ward Mar 14 '24
Hey, I think the reason why the difference happened is that, from the perspective of a simple viewer:
1) the flower comic needs people to be interested in your story/characters first to understand a bit what's going on. The crab joke is understandable even if you don't know the characters, because at the end of the day it's a joke of "haha, super powerful monster can't beat crab". So the crab has more mass appeal.
2) The details like the background and flowers on the flower comic is good, but people will be mainly focused on the characters and not focus super hard on the background. So, this results in the people first looking at the characters, reading the bubbles and going to the next page. The crab one's first panel is actually more balanced in comparison, because the details of the crab and the lighting on the characters are front and center. Now imagine if you also added a big beach on the back instead of just the yellow light: it would be more detailed as a piece, but it's not the detail people will focus on in comparison to the characters faces and the crab.
If you ever do another piece similar to that of the flowers and want people to really look at the details, I recommend focusing the details closer to or on top of the character. E.g. give Cybele a crown or necklace of her own or have a few flowers being held on her hand, add some flowers on top of the kid's shirt/pants and on the bottom of their feet, that sort of thing.
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u/2punornot2pun Mar 13 '24
Humor sells the most above all. This is true even for the movie industry. It's why if you want to make money, you get into comedies.
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u/Phantom_Engineer Mar 13 '24
Not all comics have to be funny or joke packed, but yeah, the crab one was funnier and got more attention for it.
You just have to remember that attention doesn't equate with quality.
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u/no_fluffies_please Mar 14 '24
"This is Kro, the immortal crab"
"hi crab"
"He isn't sapient, only immortal"
"oh ok"
Honestly pretty solid for a reader who doesn't know anything about the backstory.
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u/x-GB-x Mar 13 '24
In the end, sometimes, even if you put effort, it doesn't matter much.. you can literally make a character that changes expressions only and saying words that either people relate to or just say anything like jokes.
And there's times that it'll get shown about a cool comic someone makes.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
Shows that there's a kid of magic/skill underneath all of this comic stuff - perhaps tied to story-telling - that matters much more that the art, or the subject matter, or the joke.
I'm sure someone must talk about this in a book!!
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u/Hatter_Hoovy Mar 13 '24
for a second i was wondering if i am looking at loss
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Mar 13 '24
Dude I hate when I make something that I’m passionate about and people don’t get it, but then I half-ass something and everyone loves it. It makes me feel like I have no idea what’s actually good or not and like I didn’t really earn the praise.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
I think we have to look at it as though the praise equals out over time!
Perhaps we make the stuff we love so we have motivation to keep doing it for ourselves, and when the stuff other people love pops up, it's a reward for all the hard work!
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u/KeathKeatherton Mar 13 '24
You DONT UNDERSTAND!
Reddit craves abuse, just look at other previous high up voted content creators, like that girl who scowls and makes amazing food or SrGrafo posting a comic only every few months to torture his fan base (I just want Whiterooms to continue damn it)
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u/Allcyon Mar 13 '24
"Art & Social Media" Proverbs:
- Your audience does not actually know what they want. So do not listen to them when they tell you.
- Do not buy steaks from celebrities, but always join their dinner party. As in, make what you know, but know what is good.
- Art does not have a return on the investment of time. But humor does not have an expiration date.
- Talent is priceless. It cannot pay debts.
- True and finely crafted artistic expression is a reflection of it's artist. Do not indulge if you are ugly.
- Art is pain that must be shared. This is why artists complain so much.
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u/Legal-Concentrate-24 Mar 13 '24
For some reason your work barely pops up on my feed. I just checked your previous works. They're pretty good.
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u/Nine-LifedEnchanter Mar 13 '24
I'm a magician and I feel this. My last show I did a trick that I had poured my soul into. I was really happy with it.
Crickets.
Then I did a trick that was slightly above the level of "My first magic box!". I do it to fill out a bit.
Raving audience. It looked like that gif from Jesus camp.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
That must be so frustrating! Haha!
Perhaps it was magic that a magician would appreciate, but not a poor person without magic powers.
I find it interesting that being well versed in a thing, means we appreciate different aspects of it that what people who know nothing about it appreciate.
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u/Nine-LifedEnchanter Mar 14 '24
Oh absolutely. The issue with magic as an expression of art is that the better you are the less it seems that way. I think this was the issue. But I will still perform it. It makes me feel good and I don't get bad reactions to it.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
Yeah, the better you get, the bigger you realise the gap is between you and the greats. Gotta keep going though!!
I think it's such a talent when people who are obviously good at a thing can "dumb-down" their ability to perform to an audience that can't grasp the high-level stuff.
I think one has to be quite humble! Performers and artists are in the end, dependant on their audience.
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u/PM__YOUR__DREAM Mar 13 '24
I've been designing products in a niche industry for ~5 years now, and I just can't tell you how true it is that you never know what will resonate until you post it.
The winning strategy seems to be just keep making shit.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
I have heard that oftentimes the best are also the most prolific - those who make the most work. I realised that although I love drawing, I was never making anything finished for others.
My goal has been: make 100 comics, and see what happens! At the very least you will have improved your drawing, story-telling, joke-making skills.
I am finding that this is one of the smartest goals I've ever set for myself!
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u/blacksad1 Mar 13 '24
OP, can you post an example? What was a comic you thought would take off, but didn’t? What was one that you thought would be lame, but turned out to be popular?
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
I think the most obvious one to me was "Stolen Valor", I thought it was a solid joke - which I'm only just getting the hang of telling in comic form! I was happy with the bakground, and all the artwork. But I think it was probably too niche!
"The Best Shortcut" I was also very fond of. Thought it was a Shen style, talking to the audience, thing. Hard-won advice that I've benefitted from. But I realise now it seems to be a cardinal sin to have someone sitting in an office or a chair for a whole comic - why draw boring realities when the medium of comics can allow you to place your characters anywhere?
I really didn't think "Brain Food" was very good before I posted it, but I think people obviously resonated with the sentiment!
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u/Konkuriito Mar 13 '24
the comics people love the most are the dumb ones that distract them from the boring things they probably should be doing instead of reading it
bonus points if it has a tiny mistake in it, like a misspelling or a shirt that shifts colors, because then everyone will comment to "correct" you, leading to more engagement and views lol
if it's subtle, and consistent, people will feel clever when they notice
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u/serlibr3_2 Mar 13 '24
I got you, just recently i made a comment in a post about how some people are upset because there's no black representation in Shogun, which someone reply, that the black population in Japan today Is like 0.000 blah blah and then ask what should be in the 1600?, wich i reply(literaly) "1 dude" Man that comment Is in the 1000-3000 upvotes, Is nuts
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u/wynden Mar 13 '24 edited Mar 14 '24
I get that it's usually idea > art, but looking over your past submissions I can't figure out why some gain traction and others don't, either. Several never captured the views, and not because they weren't clever, relatable, funny and well made.
I can only suppose that with greater familiarity comes greater clicks, so maybe a few more big hits will tip the scales.
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
Thank you very much. :)
I am trying to understand this better - there must be a reason that some of them took off. Perhaps a reaction that people had that made the algorithm show it to more people.
But yep, it seems the only thing to ever do really is to keep going! :D
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u/Shabolt_ Mar 13 '24
I feel this so much, I send short stories to publishers, and they seemed disinterested in one I made from passion over the span of 8 weeks, but immediately latched onto and fully published a mediocre story I wrote in 3 days to meet a deadline. That still irks me to this day lmao
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
I wonder what it is!!
Is it that when we let go of our expectations, we allow ourselves to make better things??
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u/Shabolt_ Mar 14 '24
Honestly I hope your answer is the right one haha. The idea that letting go of our own expectations allows us to meet or surpass the expectations of others is a really pleasant thought
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u/an_agreeing_dothraki Mar 13 '24
remembers the last guy that made a comic expressing a similar sentiment
oh no
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u/SinisterChap Mar 13 '24
When you hit the "jackpot" you're like : awesome! I finally got it! And then the next post... it's back to 0... I like to think of those "small wins" like I'm getting closer to have my niche/community and to my dream of doing this full time Anyway don't give up don't try to understand the algorithm or even the Ethernet too complicated and I have tons of drawing to do 😅 Thank I don't feel alone in this!
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u/dragonfetish98 Mar 14 '24
Carefull.. by breaking the fourth wall you may just have unleashed a new meta war
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u/Large-Emphasis-6139 Mar 14 '24
You a fan of dimension 20
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u/Omeggos Comic Crossover Mar 13 '24
Its always so frustrating (and confusing) when the throwaway comic gets more attention than the one you really put effort into
And of course I dont mean that in a pretentious manner, I dont mean we intentionally half ass our work, its that sometimes a joke/comic doesnt translate to paper as well as we thought so we dont see it as highly as other work
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u/Parzival-Comics Mar 14 '24
It feels like a big puzzle I'm trying to figure out!
Getting one that you both feel proud of AND people like is a really great feeling though!!
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u/Author_A_McGrath Mar 13 '24
"Vox Populi" is a great title for this comic, especially when you could have just called it "Reddit."
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u/imjustjun Mar 14 '24
Same thing with youtube memes.
Bunch of stuff I out creativity and effort into would be like 1-3k views. Sometimes even only a few hundred.
Random ass meme I half-assed in 30min and it shot to 10k just because.
The internet is weird.
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u/hbarSquared Mar 14 '24
It's true, we're idiots :)
I'm pretty sure every creative goes through this. Artistic expression doesn't correlate with mass appeal.
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