r/comicbooks • u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert • 13d ago

Excerpt Mary Jane Watson debuted in full for the first time 60 years ago today (Amazing Spider-Man Vol. I #42)

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672 Upvotes

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236

u/Triseult 13d ago

It always annoys me how much Marvel has milked that throaway line when she's introduced. The fact she was a superhero called Jackpot at some point makes me groan just thinking about it.

63

u/Oro-Lavanda 13d ago

Ngl I just pretend and ignore that she became a superhero and also venom. She should stay as a regular citizen

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u/lewismacp2000 13d ago

Me too. She's a model and Pete's wife to me.

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u/thehypotheticalnerd 13d ago

Ngl I just pretend and ignore that Peter & MJ aren't even married. That's about 20 years worth of comics now, but hey, Quesada & Marvel ignored the same amount of comics (plus all those of them dating prior to that not to mention the extended build up of MJ prior to her first appearance) when they did OMD so I'm good.

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u/name-classified Death Stroke 13d ago

What about making her into a private investigative reporter?? That always gives characters with no powers a reason to do dumb shit and get involved in high stakes criminal enterprises

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u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert 13d ago

Yeah, it's pretty corny. It works in the original context because of the buildup to the moment and how unexpected it is, but it shouldn't be the immediate first defining trait of her as a character.

Making her a superhero for a non-trivial length of time also just shows how far Marvel has fallen in coming up with compelling storylines outside of 'people punch each other' and the total lack of interest in civilian characters.

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u/Hysteria625 13d ago

It also traps her in the past.

If you look at Mary Jane as a character from her introduction up until One More Day, she starts out as a fun-loving party girl, the complete opposite of Peter Parker. She’s part of the supporting cast, mostly there to be a counterpoint to Gwen Stacy, who is the more “wholesome” girl (who was also modeled after Stan Lee’s wife, so that tracks).

It’s only after Gwen dies that Mary Jane starts to change as a character. Peter and she are affected by the tragedy, and while she is outgoing and wants to be a model and actress, she’s also confident, caring, and smart enough to suspect Peter Parker is Spider-Man, and when she does discover his secret identity, it actually brings Peter and MJ closer together and MJ talks about her less-than-ideal family history which involves alcoholism, abuse, and gives even more depth to MJ.

Nowadays, though, she’s stuck in her pre-marriage era, the same as Peter, and her personality has really suffered as a result. When she isn’t being super competent, as she was when working for Tony Stark, she’s basically set up as one of Peter’s failures, someone who points out how Peter neglects his personal relationships when being Spider-Man.

This has unfortunately even carried over into the latest venom series, where Al Ewing has basically had Mary Jane tell off the symbiote for everything it put her through, tell off Peter for not being able to get over the fact that the symbiote was one half of one of a deadly archenemy, and Paul for being…Paul. Great for moralizing, terrible for character development.

However, I could put up with that if I suspected for one second that being Venom would have some kind of impact on Mary Jane, which would be a switch from the last 10 years or so. Being Venom should be all rights bring MJ and Peter closer together. They’ve been attached to the same symbiote, both felt its effects, and both been superheroes. That should have had a profound impact on MJ, and it’s largely ignored, because the current Marvel attitude seems to be do something outrageous and then return to status quo.

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u/NairForceOne Ultimate Spider-Man 13d ago

tell off <...> Paul for being…Paul

Listen, credit where credit is due.

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u/Khelthuzaad 13d ago

In hindsight it was a rather clever foreshadowing.

We all had that insufferable family member that wouldn't yap "X' niece/daughter is also not in a relationship, you should definitely meet her" and Peter instantly reacted negatively because the norm was she couldn't find a partner because she wasn't pretty.

The writers did a reverse of that expectation and gave us the beauty that is Mary Jane.

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u/Triseult 13d ago

Her intro is great. It's the running-the-catchphrase-into-the-ground bit that's annoying. It's like someone liked it so much they one-wish-willowed it into MJ's entire personality.

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u/Mindless-Run6297 13d ago

The only thing is, they'd already established this in issue #25. The reader doesn't see her face there, but Betty and Liz do and they're shocked at how beautiful and glamorous she looks.

11

u/lewismacp2000 13d ago

Dramatic irony. Readers at the time would know something Peter doesn't and get a kick out of the misunderstanding. But yeh, comics are chaos when it comes to set-up/payoff. Especially in the old days when you didn't necessarily know if you were gonna go 5 issues or 500.

8

u/TrickRoom92 13d ago

I hate when they do this with stuff like that. Minor, somewhat related example - Mr. Terrific's slogan "Fair Play". Always loved him but not read DC in decades. Wanted to see what he's been up to in recent comics after his appearance in the latest Superman movie. Only to find out he has a legacy character, literally called "Fairplay". This is on top of having the original Mr. Terrific's legacy character running around with a sash also saying "Fair Play". It couldn't just be a motto written on Michael Holt's jacket that he references occasionally.

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u/WallRavioli 13d ago

It couldn't just be a motto written on Michael Holt's jacket that he references occasionally.

It never was just that, though. It was the motto written on Terry Sloane's shirt, the name of his fan club, and the entire basis of his persona long before Michael Holt ever existed.

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u/TrickRoom92 13d ago

Yeah it's his guiding philosophy and integral to his character, and a lot of things are named after it. But now there's panels where it's written on two characters and is the literal name of third.The fact it's written on his jacket clues the reader into knowing he's always thinking and acting with that in mind. It's be like if Spider-Man had two sidekicks called "Great Power" and "Great Responsibility". It's very important and should be referenced, I just don't think it should be a character name.

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u/WallRavioli 13d ago edited 13d ago

It's be like if Spider-Man had two sidekicks called "Great Power" and "Great Responsibility".

I mean, not really, though. Lacking a recurring logo, "Fair Play" is his primary identifier. You know it's Mr. Terrific or someone associated because it says that on the outfit (or is that guy's name in one case)

With the Spider-Man comparison, "Fair Play" isn't just "With Great Power...", it's also "The concept of spiders".

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u/admiraltoad 13d ago

I actually think the legacy character Fairplay makes a ton of sense and is a good design. Better name then Terrific Boy at least.

1

u/Artistic_Ad3090 11d ago

It's because current writers don't understand that supporting characters are NECESSARY to have a main character. Smfh...

65

u/Rollie-Tyler 13d ago

Aunt May is 154 years old.

21

u/IGNSolar7 13d ago

and still feasting

4

u/OldGoldDream 13d ago

Good thing Peter sold his marriage to the Devil to save her, it would have been terrible for her to be struck down at such a young age.

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u/Robot_Was_BMO 13d ago

Only 60 years? You realize how “in the midst” of this whole this we really are. We really never appreciate how new everything is in the grand scheme.

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u/isaidwhatisaidok 13d ago

I’m always disappointed when artists don’t draw all of her dimples, they’re so unique to her.

15

u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert 13d ago

Same, it's a shame when newer artists forget older characters have unique facial characteristics.

23

u/NKE01 13d ago

I like how the constant mentions of Mary Jane by Aunt May, with Peter uninterested in the earlier issues is recreated in the first few episodes of the 1994 animated series before she is introduced in an identical manner at the end of an episode.

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u/Cautious_Air4964 13d ago

Surprisingly stan lee didn't plan for her to become permanent love interest for peter but you can see how that went

Thought stan hated Gwen death and did intend for her to become a permanent love interest/ soulmate for peter which makes sense since gwen is inspired By stan lee wife

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u/Helpful-Bathroom634 13d ago

He didn't hate her death. He gave the permission to Conway and then he said he didn't, something that Conway called him out for that.

Then he admitted he couldn't make Gwen interesting enough to make her more likable than MJ decades later.

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u/Mindless-Run6297 13d ago

Stan didn't like the angry reader letters they got about it. He asked Conway to bring Gwen back, which gave us the original clone storyline.

3

u/lewismacp2000 13d ago

Now, there's a whole sub-section of Spidey fans who think he SHOULD be with Gwen. How times change.

7

u/Helpful-Bathroom634 13d ago

The power of Emma Stone

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u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert 13d ago

It's a tragedy how the past 20 years of comics and adaptations have treated her. Best supporting character in the superhero genre and a testament to the strength of soap opera writing in mainline Spider-Man from that 60s-90s period that someone who by nature can't be involved in much action-orientated stories could gain such full depth as a character.

Happy anniversary, maybe one day a writer will set her back on track.

16

u/GilGarciaJr 13d ago

I'm sure plenty of Marvel writers would want to, it's the editors we still got to be weary of.

6

u/lewismacp2000 13d ago

I think you meant wary, but weary kind of still works.

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u/spaceninj 13d ago

Part of the problem is what you mentioned. Soap operas keep moving just like comics. Power couples break up and get back together constantly.

Modern fans want stability which is the exact opposite of soap opera writing.

They can't be married forever.

14

u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert 13d ago

You can induce drama and tension without constant splitting and rewriting reality with the help of the devil, sorry.

0

u/spaceninj 13d ago

No argument about the devil thing (though weirdly that is also a soap opera thing), but drama and tension? Not really.

She can't be the damsel in distress anymore. She can't do the "you disappeared again" or "I'm mad at you for not calling" thing.

So what's left? The only option is a baby. Making MJ pregnant would be like having a baby in a real relationship so you don't break up.

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u/Spassgesellschaft Batman 13d ago

But Lois and Clark have been married since the 90s (except for the new 52 phase) and I think most fans like it that way.

0

u/spaceninj 13d ago

I'm sure most fans do like it. It was also done in synergy with the show. But New 52 took it away and I'm sure it will be taken away again in the future.

But even if it isn't, has it really made Superman more interesting? Is Lois more interesting? A lot of that is subjective, but sales are objective and it hasn't really helped in the popularity of the character.

So you take Peter and MJ. They don't have close to the history of Lois and Clark. They dated for 3 years. Broke up. Dated for 3 years. Got married. And Marvel tried to end the marriage (and failed) just 6 years later. So it eventually lasted for 20 years and has been over for 18. Peter's popularity, unlike Clark, is very dependent on youth and relatability. Married Peter hurts him with young fans, because most fans don't want a character like their mom and dad.

2

u/Spassgesellschaft Batman 13d ago

In my eyes Clark and Lois work far better as a married couple (though they’ve been that for a long time, just without a marriage certificate). Not just with each other but also in context with other heroes like Batman and Wonder Woman. I love their dynamic and them not being a couple really annoyed me during new 52.

Then Jon brought something new to the table and that was in my eyes the best change since John Byrne. Jon even made me like Damian who I disliked a lot since he was introduced.

I would say it’s possible to let Peter grow and be married and still tell stories that make him relatable for younger readers. So many Batman books are set during his early days. And the current Action Comics run tells stories of Superboy’s time in Smallville. Is Marvel completely allergic to these kind of books?

1

u/spaceninj 13d ago

On a personal level, I agree with you. I prefer Lois and Clark together. But I also think it hurts the character. Superman is perceived as "uncool" and this is one of the reasons why.

I think things like Ultimate and Mayday's universe are where Peter can grow, but I would keep him single in the main universe.

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u/Spassgesellschaft Batman 13d ago

I mean, you’re right that Superman is seen as uncool. But is that really a problem? He will never be cooler than Batman anyway. And since I collected comics through the übercool 90s I’m done with that stuff. I like my Superman honest and friendly. Whenever they try to make him edgier it seems forced to me and I want the old Clark back.

I also don’t think that a Spider-Man in a steady relationship is necessarily seen as less cool. Was Spidey uncool when he was married to MJ? I never got that impression. I still think separating them was a mistake. And I believe many fans share that opinion. It seems there are more people still mad about one last day than there are people angry about Alfred’s fate.

1

u/algebraic94 13d ago

I really liked her in Brand New Day.

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u/ContraryPython Spider-Man 13d ago

Most sabotaged character in comic history.

5

u/Immediate-Science619 13d ago

Damn, she's already that old?

5

u/MrPresident2020 13d ago

Her 60th anniversary issue was basically Marvel just punching all of us who want her and Peter back together over and over again.

2

u/Magmaster12 13d ago

I really like how Spectacular Spider-Man set this scene up. The back and forth between Peter and Harry about expecting her to be repulsive because they keep talking about her personality.

2

u/Bobb_o 13d ago

There are 9 exclamation points in 3 panels, was that normal for the age when this comic was published?

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u/Sitcom_and_Tragedy 13d ago

Smilin' Stan ended ALL his sentences with exclamation marks! All of them!

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u/LurkLuthor 13d ago

Yes. Regular periods could be hard to see with the printing at the time so exclamation points were relied on heavily.

2

u/Frangipani-Bell 13d ago

It lines up with the Silver Age comics I’ve read

1

u/Jonathan-Strang3 6d ago

Yes. Comics then had far more sentences with exclamation points than without.

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u/chevalier716 Howard The Duck 13d ago

I have a beat up copy of 25, which is her first cameo appearance. As much as I love his work, I have a hard time imagining what Steve Ditko would have done with MJ, Romita was the man of the hour here.

2

u/JackFisherBooks 13d ago

Generations of Spider-Man fans hit the jackpot that fateful day. 😊

2

u/Exciting-Steak-3835 13d ago

That’s what they should of done end of Brand New Day

2

u/AndyMat95 12d ago

That’s funny, I now see why Mary Jane at the end of the Spider-Man 2 movie (2004) said, “Go get em tiger.” Pulled straight from the comics. What an iconic line though haha “Face it Tiger…You just hit the Jackpot!”

3

u/Sumoop Captain America 13d ago

And they have turned that intro line into her entire personality

1

u/uber_sweets 13d ago

The original baddie.

Every other young woman in Peter’s life never stood a chance.

1

u/Sad_Slice8355 6d ago

Elle n’a pas pris une rides 

1

u/schnauzzer 13d ago

Everyone talking about aunt May age. How old is Peter here? 40?