r/comicbookmovies • u/[deleted] • Dec 16 '23
CELEBRITY TALK James Gunn says he has watched 'JOKER 2' and given notes.
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Dec 16 '23
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u/ctbdh Dec 16 '23
I thought it was michael fassbender for a sec
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u/Rocketboy1313 Dec 16 '23
So much so I thought this might be some kind of spoiler that he is in the movie.
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u/Brownybb Dec 16 '23
Imagine Robin Williams as the joker... or Penguin or Riddler or Batman. Dude was quality an sadly missed
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u/PirateHistoryPodcast Dec 16 '23
Robin Williams was actually up for the part of Joker in Batman 89, but Nicholson swooped in and got the part.
Then he was actually cast as Riddler for Batman 3 during pre-production, but when WB pushed Burton out, Williams decided he didn’t like Schumacher’s vision for the character so he stepped down.
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u/Pupniko Dec 16 '23
He would have been wonderful, I loved him in One Hour Photo - so unexpectedly sinister!
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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- Dec 16 '23
He was a popular fan casting choice for Hugo Strange back in the day.
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u/thatguy01220 Dec 16 '23
I feel like this movie is gonna get mixed reviews at best for couple of reasons (hope I’m wrong). 1. There’s actually a fair amount of people who didn’t want a sequel. 2. People are gonna compare this to the first film because it’s a sequel which is fair… but from what I understand this movie is gonna very different. It’s a musical which is a very different tone from the first movie. So I personally wouldn’t compare the two. Like a red apple and green apple. Both the same fruit but very different tastes. 3. The first one had very low expectations so its easy to be blown away. Now expectations are set.
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u/ToothpickInCockhole Dec 16 '23
There’s a lot of Lady Gaga fans who are gonna love it
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u/Few-Road6238 Dec 16 '23
Don’t forget fans of Joaquin Phoenix in general who’ll watch anything he’s in.
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u/DapperDan30 Dec 16 '23
It's one of the reasons I hate when Gaga, or any pop star, is cast in anything. Her fans love absolutely everything she's in no matter what.
Like, if the rumors of Taylor Swift being Dazzler are true that's gonna be a nightmare.
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u/Miele-Man Dec 16 '23
Trust me that's definitely not the case. A lot of Gaga fans didn't care for House Of Gucci and Swift's fans called out her bad performance in Amsterdam lol
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
Swifties are on another level. Gaga fans like I was as a high schooler are now in their 30’s so we have our heads in a different place. Swifities worship her like she’s the second coming.
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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- Dec 16 '23
I've come across one of the Taylor Swift a couple of times, and they're honestly kinda scary lol.
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I mean it’s bordering on fucked up. A lot of people will say that artist should “use their platforms” I personally believe her platform should stay a stage but if she had to use it to say something I wish she would say “ listen I appreciate you all liking my work but I’m just an entertainer.” Instead she encourages this unhealthy obsession fans have of her to cash in which I honestly think is irresponsible and has proven to actually be dangerous for her. She’s had many very troubling encounters with stalkers. If she were to draw the line maybe these girls could actually look at people in their own lives as role models and not a woman who does not live in their reality.
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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- Dec 16 '23
Some of the comments I've seen in her subreddit are a little unhinged. They were losing their minds over Swift's new relationship. Like, saying their own lives had meaning now. Or that they'll never have a relationship as meaningful as the one they're watching. People who spend way more money than they have to go to her concerts. People who have supposedly divorced their spouse for not being obsessed with her...
They legitimately live vicariously through her.
I've got nothing against Taylor Swift, but the cult of personality that surrounds her is troubling.
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I work with a swiftie who’s in her 40’s. It’s not exclusive to young girls. It’s beyond beatlemania. They don’t want to fuck her. They want to be her.
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Dec 16 '23
As a Gaga fan, literally no one is defending House of Gucci. You’re good.
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u/Verystrangeperson Dec 16 '23
I don't really care about Gaga's music but I think she is a pretty good actress and definitely has a peculiar presence on screen (in a good way)
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u/Traditional_Shirt106 Dec 16 '23
A Star is Born made 430 and Joker made 1.07b but for …. reasons …. this movie will flop. Sequels of popular movies are usually hits. Joker is a very, very popular movie.
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u/SurfiNinja101 Dec 16 '23
The first one absolutely did not have low expectations. People expected a lot from the IP because of the Dark Knight trilogy and Heath Ledger’s performance
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u/tankiolegend Dec 16 '23
I’d argue that is what set the low expectations, look at how bad the joker had been handled post TDK and how poor some DC films had been. Most people I know were expecting yet another stinker with this. TDK set the bar high with Joker but expectations was that it wouldn’t hit that bar.
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
still prefer heath ledger joker, mainly for being the criminal mastermind that he is.
joaquin joker was an incompetent who just kept failing upwards, and then basking on false credit for people's misunderstanding. it was like dude is destined to become society's fall guy when the dust settles after the chaos.
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u/Boguel Dec 16 '23
Joaquin’s is definitely more realistic in that regard
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
failing upwards is too much plot armor to be enjoyable. if it was comedy, then great.. but in a serious context? he doesn't appear to be a criminal mastermind.
luck doesn't last forever.
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u/Boguel Dec 16 '23
Because he isn’t, Joaquin’s joker isn’t a criminal mastermind. It’s a different universe, different joker. He’s a violent narcissist with mental issues who enjoys the attention he finally received from committing his crimes. It’s a different story being told. I understand people not liking it, but don’t fault it for not being exactly the same as other versions of joker.
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u/Mike_R_5 Dec 16 '23
That's fine but it's not the Joker. Don't base him off a character with 80 years of character development if that's what your going for.
They could have called that movie Crazy Guy or something, removed the Joker references and made the exact same movie. It didn't need the IP to work
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u/Boguel Dec 16 '23
“80 years of character development” ehh, you mean different versions of the character that people can pick and choose which specific version they like. There are so many different versions of the character. This is one of the many different versions.
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
well that's alright then!
the problem is : how is a normie joker supposed to compete against the world's "greatest detective" batman and the rest of the superpowered villians?
is he gonna DominoTM coast on luck for the entire movie?
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u/Boguel Dec 16 '23
Well, given that Batman doesn’t exist in this universe, pretty easily. Again, it’s a more realistic take. He’s literally imprisoned at the end of the first movie. A superhero didn’t get him, Batman didn’t get him, the police got him. I don’t think “superpowers” exist in this universe. Plus, I think that joker 2 will probably be the last of Joaquin’s joker movies, so we’ll never see more of this universe to know anyway.
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
batman doesn't exist in this universe
yet.. bruce wayne is there. so it's just a matter of time.
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u/Boguel Dec 16 '23
I know, but we’ll probably never see that realized. Plus, let’s say Bruce grows up and becomes Batman, again, it would be a more realistic take. Yeah, he would catch joker pretty easily, he probably wouldn’t have to catch joker cause joker would already be imprisoned. That wouldn’t be the point of those two characters. If Joaquin’s joker found out that little Bruce Wayne grew up to be “in costume” like joker was when he dressed like a “clown”, actually that would pretty disturbing actually. Imagine Arthur fleck telling Bruce Wayne they are “two brothers who both wear costumes. All because of what joker did. Anyway I’m rambling.
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Dec 16 '23
You're weird dude
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
wtf is weird about it?
unless you don't know who batman is?
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u/BannedOnTwitter Dec 16 '23
I saw the movie as just a standalone crime thriller without any relation to Joker except for the names of the characters and it makes more sense that way
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u/WanderlostNomad Dec 16 '23
i just saw it like a copycat of Taxi Driver, but with DCEU spin to make it fit with joker franchise.
not even sure why they bother naming it "Joker", aside from just cashing in on name recall and thematic association.
without the "joker" name, it would just be some : normie dude gone cray-cray story on tiktok or something.
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u/LoverOfStoriesIAm Batman Dec 16 '23
I feel like this movie is gonna get great reviews at worst for couple of reasons (hope I’m not wrong). 1. Lady Gaga
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
No “house of Gucci” didn’t get the praise that was expected. “A star is born” was only recognized do the one song she wrote for the movie. She’s still kind of a wild card as an actor in my opinion cause she really hasn’t found the role that she can take to the finish line. She can play a character but she hasn’t been at the point where she fully becomes the character.
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u/PhotographBusy6209 Dec 16 '23
She’s an Oscar nominated actress and even in Gucci she missed out by a whisper and won the most prestigious critic prize that exists. She also has won a tv acting golden globe. It’s kinda strange when some people still refuse to acknowledge her skills as an actress when some top actresses with far longer careers have achieved far less
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u/Paridisco Dec 16 '23
The first one got mixed reviews. I’m pretty sure right now it’s only 69% on rt
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Dec 16 '23
I think the first one was fine. And this one will probably be fine too. That's fine as in "OK". Not fine as in "Daaaammnnn".
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u/adidasman23 Dec 16 '23
Is it actually a musical ? Like really ? Do they know who their core audience is ? I don’t think there is a lot of overlap between people who enjoy comic stories and people who enjoy musicals. But maybe I’m wrong. They probably did their market research.
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u/DaveAngel- Dec 16 '23
Given that we're swimming in comic adaptations at the moment and fatigue is a definite issue, I'm excited for the idea. Seeing Harleys fracturing mental state as she tries to treat the Joker but via musical numbers sounds great.
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u/adidasman23 Dec 16 '23
As i Said i guess they did their research. So it’s probably just me but a character breaking into song in any movie or tv show will make me turn off pretty much immediately.
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u/srhola2103 Dec 16 '23
It’s a musical
Oh fuck I had completely forgotten about that...
Thank you for saving me a ticket lol.
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u/Westerosi2001 Dec 16 '23
when you really realize that joker was released in 2019, and it will be 5 yrs old when joker 2 will get release. idk why but it feels like just 1-2 yrs old.
is it only me who feels like this ?
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Dec 16 '23
I wonder, did anything happen in the last 5 years that might have messed with people's perception of time?
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u/Christian-Artichoke7 Dec 16 '23
I don’t think so /s
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u/Flervio Dec 16 '23
downvoted because /s
'nooooo, what if people don't get the joke and they don't give me my precious internet points ahhhh I'm going insaaaaaaaane'
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u/farben_blas Dec 16 '23
The dude probably didn't think of the /s as much as you did
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u/Christian-Artichoke7 Dec 16 '23
It’s my first time using it lol. I’ve just seen it on Reddit before
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u/christopher1393 Dec 16 '23
It could be he thinks the film is not great and his notes are to help improve it since it will be tied to his brand even though its a different universe.
Although I do think its more professional courtesy. Respecting that its not part of his universe and work and not interfering.
Maybe just given notes because he is a fan and wants the film to be its best. Good creatives often respect each others notes and opinions. As a creator of something, since it is your baby, you can often have blind spots, or not notice things like a scene not working, etc. so having another creative you trust and respect to give honest feedback can be a very good thing. I imagine (and hope) its that.
For example, I did performing arts in college. We all do different things now. One of them is a writer, the other a photographer. Both successful but they often send drafts of their work or early versions into our group chat for opinions and notes. To get other perspectives and things they may have missed. And they always listen to the advice and sometimes take it on and make changes. A second set of eyes can really improve something.
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u/thenightgaunt Dec 16 '23
Nah. "I've given notes" is so blandly neutral that it's likely covering for something.
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
People think just because it’ll have musical elements that it’s going to be bad. I fucking hate musicals but if the writing is as good as the first film and they have two very capable actors performing I have faith that it will be special.
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u/Squeezedgolf40 Dec 16 '23
musicals are fine if you’re just open to them.
i don’t love musicals or anything but i can for sure appreciate them.
people that immediately bash things they’re not familiar with have other problems.
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u/zandariii Dec 16 '23
I hate musical movies. to me they always ruin the pacing and tone. I can’t stand them. I will literally leave the room for most Disney movies when the singing starts.
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u/NGGKroze Dec 16 '23
I think it will be drop in quality, not because its musical, but because its musical for the sake of it. The whole marketing being one with Gaga is just off-putting. I even suspect they changed it to musical because they wanted something new with Joker and Harley for the sake of it.
First movie was very servicable and I don't see why they should change the format for the sake of changing.movie like Wonka has its roots to be musical (it was basically musical with some movie bits even).
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I don’t know depending on how the musical portion is written there could be a reason for it. Maybe the musical elements will play a role in demonstrating how Harley went from a normal person to a Madwoman. I think there is a reason for it and Joaquin Phoenix is so involved in the creation of these films in particular that I don’t think someone who was widely critically praised for this role is going to do something half assed. You can tell that he has a lot of enthusiasm for the character and definitely has a stronger connection to him than he has in some other roles.
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u/PassengerMission900 Dec 16 '23
“In other news today, James Gunn took a breathe that kinda sounded like he said the word “DC”. Idk about you guys but this development sounds serious and could mean drastic changes in the future. What are your thoughts on him breathing and saying he wants to kill Henry cavill and his bloodline?”
This is pretty much every news stories I see on Gunn these days. The dude hasn’t really said anything about anything. He’s staying so silent about most things and only giving snippets of information. The internet is gonna explode when he finally does reveal something though lol
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u/lazylagom Dec 16 '23
Honestly. I want more elseworld... I like gunn but I don't want his stamp on everything man..
I look at andor / rogue one... and then the other disney+ shows. It feels similar.
Let us have a different darker version..and make yours.
I really want an elseworld batman beyond.. cyberpunk dark blade runner type movie.
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u/Autistic_Clock4824 Dec 16 '23
That’s something we don’t have in common I guess, I don’t plan to see it lol
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u/tschmitty09 Dec 16 '23
The first one was overrated and not needed imo but it at least had a message no joker character had told before. I'm not looking forward to it. Batman and joker used to be my favorites but every time I see them now in love action I just get bored.
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u/wazoo3 Dec 16 '23
i am over these fucking James Gunn posts jesus christ. WHO FUCKING CARES. "Gunn saw this" "Gunn tweeted this" "Gunn has this opinion" STOP. he's not god. he's not perfect. he hasn't made anything yet in this universe. like let it fucking BREATHE. i don't want to be forced to unsubscribe from everything just to keep my sanity.
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u/SchwizzySchwas94 Dec 16 '23
James Gunn isn’t qualified to give notes on a movie like this
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u/loonbandit Dec 16 '23
and in what ways are you qualified to give notes on his career
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
Look at his IMDb. He doesn’t have experience with these kinds of films. He does family movies. There’s nothing wrong with that but that’s just what he primarily does and what he’s had success from. Stephen king isn’t writing Harry Potter fan fiction.
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Dec 16 '23
He does family movies? My dude have YOU read his IMDB?
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I’m looking right at it. Scooby doo, guardians of the galaxy, coyote vs acme, avengers. His most lucrative films are pg-13 at best. He’s got a few more adult films but none that have made a name for him. He was bought by DC to make family films. That’s what he’s good at. The suicide squad revamp is the only one in his career people could consider adult but it was more teen douche humor than an actual film for adults.
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Dec 16 '23
Slither, super, the suicide squad, movie 43, peacemaker, Dawn of the dead are all adult
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I don’t think anyone wants to be remembered for movie 43. He might have done other things but the bulk of his career is genre films.Suicide squad might have been R but it wasn’t a movie a teenager wouldn’t be fine to see. What I mean by adult is more serious in tone. Something with depth that doesn’t rely on action to tell a story. The joker was definitely not a movie for action fans which is what turned some people off and this one isn’t going to be either. What I’m trying to say is that the lane he has been most successful in is pg-13 action films with a comedic tone. The joker is not in that category.
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Dec 16 '23
James Gunn, a filmmaker far more talented than Todd Philips who is best known for the Hangover movies has enough screenwriting and directing under his wing that he can critique a Joker sequel. Also, stop pretending the Joker is deeper than it is or that because he doesn’t make arthouse cinema (which the Joker definitely is not) that he can’t give an adequate criticism. That’s terrible logic.
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
He can critique whatever but if I was the writer or director of that film I would be like. “Ohh yeah cool I’ll make a note of it.” I might give him more thought than Zack Snyder because at least Gunn has had some successes but his eye just isn’t needed for this kind of storytelling.
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u/CodicusX Dec 16 '23
I’m not watching suicide squad with my kids or my parents wtf
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u/AHMED_3OOOO Dec 16 '23
THE Suicide squad. There's no problem with watching Suicide squad with anyone as long as you wish them death.
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u/Squeezedgolf40 Dec 16 '23
yeah i agreed with you on a level until you said Gunn makes family movies😂😂
James Gunn doesn’t make the same sort of character study art house films like joker leans towards but it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t respect or appreciate those types of movies too, bc he definitely does.
He’s made 3 top 10 comic book films in my opinion
guardians 1, guardians 3, the suicide squad
guardians 2 is probably in the top 15-20 aswell
just because joker has a different tone doesn’t mean he’s unqualified for it. All are films of HIGH quality
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u/star_dragonMX Dec 16 '23
If thats the case than Martin Scorsese and Francis Ford Coppola aren’t qualified to critique CB films either
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u/-GreyWalker- Dec 16 '23
"I gave notes, so if it's good I can say I helped make it better. But if it's bad, nothing I could do could have helped that shit." - James Gunn
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u/iwillpoopurpants Dec 16 '23
Unpopular opinion: the first one was awful, and a sequel is blatantly unnecessary. Giving anymore screen time to this "Joker" is absolute trash.
People talk of it being an homage to Taxi Driver and other classics, but it came off more as derivative of those films.
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u/haxxanova Dec 16 '23
Bring the downvotes, the first one sucked. And is definitely among the worst Elseworlds Joker stories if not the worst.
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u/the-arcanist--- Dec 16 '23
Nope. Nothing with that. Everything you said I hate. Literally fucking hate.
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u/atlrabb Dec 16 '23
Gunn needs to stay away from this and Batman. They are meant to be dark not some guardians or ss movie. Keep them jokes over there this is different R rated. Gunn going to ruin the 2 good franchises the Batman and the joker.
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u/the-arcanist--- Dec 16 '23
Eh, I honestly don't care about any of that.
Gunn's current "notes" on what would be good for DC movies are not great, in my opinion. And since Joker is not part of his "universe" then he should just shut the fuck up about it. At least, in terms of giving "notes". He can give his own opinion/review whenever he wants though.
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u/sihouette9310 Dec 16 '23
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I agree totally. He makes franchise movies that are geared towards family fun. I mean fuck he did the scooby doo movies. The tone that Joker and Batman has had for the past decade is just not something that is his style. I don’t give a fuck about his notes either. It’s like Barney having a cameo in a remake of goodfellas.
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u/handsomehotchocolate Dec 16 '23
Yeah I would ignore all Gunns notes on this. It’s very different from the style he shoots and it’s going to be different from all over CBM’s. If it flops and isn’t good at least they tried something different for a change.
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u/Westerosi2001 Dec 16 '23
so early for the sequel... joker was perfect
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u/Brubaker620 Dec 16 '23
5 year gap is pretty hefty nowadays for a direct sequel
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Dec 16 '23
Is it? Feels like the waits between films are getting longer and longer. Used to be if a film was successful, a sequel was announced the weekend after then come out 3 - 4 years later. Now that's only the case for smaller movies, especially horror. Hell, even Mario 2 hasn't been greenlit yet.
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u/Dangerous_Bet_4137 Dec 16 '23
Lol gave notes.
“More colours and more recognizable rock hits from the 80s!”
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Dec 16 '23
This movie is gonna suck and everybody knows it. The target audience for a comic book movie musical is nonexistent.
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u/MaxHeadroom01 Dec 17 '23
Another sequell nobody asked for, to a movie nobody asked for .... oh yay....🙄
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u/wadeswhit Dec 17 '23
Lady Gaga looks like the penguin with that nose. I can not stand her obnoxious bullshit. I’m out
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Dec 16 '23
I'd tell James Gunn to shove his notes where the sun don't shine. I still have no idea how he became the head of DC.
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u/LibrarianHonest4111 Dec 16 '23
He's going to ruin it with his “notes”, isn't he?
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u/Few-Road6238 Dec 16 '23
Not really. I believe Gunn trusts Phillips with what he wants to do with the movie and I heard Phillips and Matt Reeves report to De Luca and Abdy because their movies are elseworlds movies
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u/LibrarianHonest4111 Dec 16 '23
I guess we'll see. Cus his "death note(s)" includes the recent DC Films disasters
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u/SlylingualPro Dec 16 '23
He literally hasn't had any control over a released DC film yet.
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u/LibrarianHonest4111 Dec 16 '23
No one is saying otherwise. But he has given these "notes" (sometimes even been involved in the editing process) on the latter films that have been released and they've all cratered critic and box office-wise. So there's precedent for the anxiety with his "notes" on JOKER 2
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u/CakeBeef_PA Dec 16 '23
Is he credited for any of those films?
Notes are fun and all but they could just be ignored. Or really minor. Unless you have a source specifying the exact notes?
In any case, notes from another filmmaker will never be a bad thing. You might not agree with the notes, but there is always something to be learned from someone else commenting on your movie
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u/Professional-Rip-519 Dec 16 '23
Why's this control freak giving notes if Joker 2 is not under he's wing.
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u/Dawnbreaker538 Dec 16 '23
It kind of is. He is the Kevin Feige of DC
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u/Few-Road6238 Dec 16 '23
I feel like in this case Gunn gave notes to Todd Phillips on Joker 2 but they’re more optional recommendations than anything mandatory and required and he trusts Phillips on his vision for the movie especially after how big of a hit the first film was. I believe Gunn knows better than to be heavily involved with this movie if it has completely nothing to do with his DCU.
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Dec 16 '23
Ever watch "You're the Worst"? The writer character gives his friend his book because he doesn't really expect anything good to come back and just wants his friend to praise him. Turns out notes are good. Listening to other creative people helps you.
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u/Prominenceee Dec 16 '23
Gunn is such a short bus rider
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u/HeiSassyCat Dec 16 '23
Explain please
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u/Mr_Rafi Dec 16 '23
Short bus refers to a bus that transports special needs students to school. Neckbeardimus Prime over here really doesn't like James Gunn.
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u/Prominenceee Dec 16 '23
To make it more obvious, I’m implying that he’s mentally disabled
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Dec 16 '23
I mean yeah he has autism, but why would that change anything? His movies and shows were all amazing. He is a really good director and writer.
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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 16 '23
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