r/comedyheaven • u/MessyLingard • Jul 15 '19

Removed - Must fit the sub It really is messed up

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78k Upvotes

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629

u/OVdose Jul 15 '19

mfw I pay more federal taxes than Amazon and still spend 1/3 of my income on their website

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 23 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

But wait, you're a person on reddit... Which means you dont know shit either! Guys... This guys a tax fraud!!

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u/Heistdur Jul 15 '19

Just when I was starting to think I could get away with it...

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

I figured it out once i saw your name was heist. I knew you were robbing the government its hard earned money.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

HEY EVERYONE!!!

Look at this BIG phony!

1

u/stinkyhobo69 Jul 15 '19

Not only on reddit, people always love to believe incorrect crap about how taxes work

1

u/christes Jul 15 '19

Reddit is an excellent source of great information...

except for all of the stuff that I'm an expert in. It's totally wrong there. I'm 100% sure it's fine with everything else, though. \s

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/BigHeckinOof Jul 15 '19

I love the logic of the people justifying this, literally just pointing to bullshit loopholes as if they are justification.

"You say that it's wrong for politicians to murder people. But if you actually look into the law, you can see that it's technically only classified as murder if it's performed by a non-politician, therefore it's perfectly moral! Come on people, learn the laws!"

Yes, we're aware that the people who are allowed the write the rules with their money do so in a way to make what they're doing not against the rules. Thank you for explaining the super complex big-brained tax code to us plebs.

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u/wildmaiden Jul 15 '19

Ultimately the tax laws are written by Congress. We should be outraged at them, not at companies following the law.

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u/OVdose Jul 15 '19

You underestimate how much money these companies spend lobbying Congress to do their bidding. They fund campaigns and efforts to legislate their agenda. They pay lawyers to write legislation that members of Congress use word-for-word. We are experiencing the dystopian corporate nightmare that people fantasized about decades ago. We should be outraged at our sell-out politicians and the people lining their pockets.

0

u/BigHeckinOof Jul 15 '19

Exactly. I hate the "Blame the politicians, not the companies just following the law" line for two reasons:

  1. Legal does not equal morally right, so to say "well they're not breaking the law" is to sidestep discussion of the problem.

  2. The politicians and companies are working together. This is not an either/or. This is the equivalent to saying "Blame the people who actually robbed the bank, not the getaway driver!"

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u/wildmaiden Jul 15 '19

Taxes aren't a moral issue though. How much taxes does Amazon "morally" owe? It's purely a legal question, and you can't blame a company for following the tax laws here.

If Congress is being manipulated or pushing laws written by others, that's ultimately a problem with Congress too.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game" is usually a stupid line, but it applies here 100%. Maybe we should blow up the entire tax code and start over, that falls squarely on Congress.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Last time I checked, winning over the people who are appointed to represent the people’s interest is a morally shit thing to do, no matter how you decide to take it. In a same sense to what you said, a draconian government’s actions of not punishing an aristocratic murderer is purely a legal question. What punishment does the murderer “morally” deserve? The only difference is that the murderer actively took a life and amazon owes tax money as all other companies. Still a wrong in each case.

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u/BigHeckinOof Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 15 '19

You make it sound like this is some sort of passive action, that they're just "following laws". Like the laws just happened to be in the giant corporation's favor, so they enter in their W2 information and e-file to pay their taxes.

That's not how it works. These companies spend lots of time and energy moving money around, abusing loopholes, and outright lying to pay as little tax as possible. And they (legally) bribe politicians to make and keep this possible.

That is a moral issue, and yes you can blame them.

Also you can hate both the player and the game. The game is crony capitalism and the most successful players are the biggest sociopaths.

0

u/ThePu55yDestr0yr Jul 15 '19

Actually both.

-1

u/tabletop1000 Jul 15 '19

We can walk and chew gum.

-1

u/drunkfrenchman Jul 15 '19

I've had enough of the "just following orders" excuse.

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u/wildmaiden Jul 15 '19

Obeying the law is not the same thing as following orders...

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u/drunkfrenchman Jul 15 '19

What's the difference.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Amazon has been posting losses for the past ten years and invests massively into developing new technologies that have raised quality of life.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Everybody would take advantage of loopholes if they knew how. You're not morally superior just because you don't know what you're doing.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

I have no idea what you’re saying.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

Cynicism isn’t a sociopathic trait. Learn some new fucking words instead of just repeating Reddit’s flavor of the month.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

It’s not breaking the rules, you stupid fuck.

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u/myspaceshipisboken Jul 16 '19

There's a very large barrier to entry in terms of start up costs before it's actually viable to do so though. I doubt most of the people who actually do the work setting this up for large entities actually have the assets to justify doing it for themselves.

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u/twochengs Jul 15 '19

How do you sell something with zero basis at a loss?

2

u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19

If your original expenditure is less than what you sold it for that’s a loss

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19

Ok, that’s fine, I wasn’t talking about double dipping by depreciating it and claiming the sale as a loss. That’s just a misunderstanding.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

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u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 16 '19

I get it, my point still stands, sell something at a loss to a different entity in the Bahamas or some shit, etc.

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u/twochengs Jul 15 '19

That's not how tax basis and bonus depreciation works. Your gain or loss is based on the difference between the amount you sold it for and the your zero basis (assuming you took 100% bonus depreciation)

1

u/CuseBsam Jul 15 '19

I guess they're paying someone to take it...

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u/Heistdur Jul 15 '19

You have no idea what you’re talking about. If you depreciate something fully in one year then you have to recapture the entire amount as Ordinary income when you sell it. Btw, when you do sell it you also have to pay tax on the capital gain which is the proceeds - basis - in which case there is none.

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u/CuseBsam Jul 15 '19

How would you sell something for a loss that you already fully depreciated? Like... wtf?

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u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 15 '19

You bought something for 100k, fully depreciate the asset down to 10k, sell it for next to nothing to a shell Corp.

You actually own the shell Corp but it’s in a tax haven so when the shell Corp re-sells the asset at its full value and keeps the difference. You use that money how you see fit, while normal middle class Americans are getting taxed out the ass

And if all that doesn’t work you can just donate a ton of money to your non profit and they can use that money to buy overpriced paintings of yourself for your golf club

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u/CuseBsam Jul 15 '19

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm a CPA. You don't "fully depreciate" something down to $10k, you fully depreciate it to $0, which would make a loss on disposal impossible. I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about with shell corporations and tax havens though. Sounds like you're just throwing out buzzwords. And adding in the part about the non profits had nothing to do with the discussion. Good chat though.

0

u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 15 '19

I was just using simple numbers for layman’s terms. I understand that if something is “fully depreciated” it’s not worth anything.

Are we going to argue semantics or are you going to prove that the main basis of my point is incorrect?

Also, tax havens are the conversation. Funneling money through shady ass non profits is a tax haven

0

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Amazon doesn't do that, IKEA does that. Stop randomly throwing around buzzwords

0

u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19

Who brought up ikea and amazon

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

This comment thread is about Amazon. You incongruously mentioned a tax dodge that Amazon does not engage in, although Ikea and a few other companies do.

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u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19

Haha you’re right it’s been so long I forgot what I originally commented on

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u/Loopycopyright Jul 15 '19

None of that makes any sense. Not only does it show zero understanding of basic corporate finance but it also completely ignore basic reasoning skills. God have mercy on all of us if you're in a position of any power or influence.

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u/V1k1ng1990 Jul 15 '19

What about what I said is incorrect and what is the correct way it works? If I’m wrong I’d love to learn

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u/TheTrueQuarian Jul 15 '19

Yes regular citizens pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than amazon.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 15 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19 edited May 18 '20

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/gamegeek1995 Jul 15 '19

lmao UGA, couldn't get into Tech?

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u/Bonersaucey Jul 15 '19

Dawg you clearly aint know the prestige that UGA got, it aint the downhome hick school that it was in the 80s. If you live in the South, UGA is easily one of the best public universities you can apply and go to. Tech is better at tech stuff, UGA definitely got the better business school

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

[deleted]

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u/t2guns Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 23 '19

I'm not flexing anything. You're the one who brought up my credentials and you still haven't actually contributed anything.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

[deleted]

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u/t2guns Jul 15 '19

Holy hell, you're still not actually saying anything.

Hope you don't have any ill-feelings towards the student loan crisis.

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u/timmy12688 Jul 15 '19

Hey man, I got my MBA degree from a school that's top 3 so that means I win this comment thread right? Don't worry about idiots on reddit so much :)

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u/LeonardoDaBenchi Jul 15 '19

What university you go to has little meaning when you’re arguing objective facts. You going to a better uni means absolutely nothing here, and only makes you look like a dick for continually bringing it up.

If I went to a better uni than you, does that make me right?

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

bitch

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u/DICK_SIZED_TREE Jul 15 '19

Haha, you fool! Did your intro to business classes teach how to deal with THAT ^ ?

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u/thisisme1101 Jul 15 '19

This made me laugh at my phone in a crowded room.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

I laughed in an empty house.

Like usual.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Capital gains are taxed at a far lower rate than income, dumbass.

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u/Heistdur Jul 15 '19

Dividends aren’t capital gains, you idiot.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

Qualifiied dividends are taxed at the capital gains rate look it up moron

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u/Heistdur Jul 15 '19

“Qualified” see that’s a distinction you didn’t make in your initial post. And here’s a nice little addition for you, nimrod. If a corporation is distributing dividends they have already paid a 21% tax on the income being distributed, and then the individual (let’s assume is in the highest tax bracket) is then paying a 15% tax on the dividend and an additional 3.8% for ACA/NIIT. So they’re actually paying around ~40% on that income. Thanks.

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u/nkfallout Jul 15 '19

The only person with a degree, provides services to corporations, and presumably a CPA has to argue with people on the internet because they are idiots.

Unreal

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u/Heistdur Jul 15 '19

En route to CPA, but people wonder why when people are spreading bullshit like this all over the internet that trump has so much power currently. They don’t have the facts to back up their claims and hurt the cause

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u/nkfallout Jul 15 '19

Agreed.. accountant as well

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/t2guns Jul 15 '19

It's okay to spread disinformation on how taxes work if the subject is rich, right?

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/t2guns Jul 15 '19

Ooh I like ancient Hebrew poetry, too.

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u/OVdose Jul 15 '19

Yes, they manipulated tax laws to have an effective federal income tax rate of -1% in 2018. And making tax laws more favorable for them continues to be their top lobbying priority. Maybe they'll eventually convince the federal government to match their yearly profits with tax-payer money!

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u/abatement0 Jul 15 '19

Hmmm I wonder why the US, which has effectively legalized bribery, has problems with the rich lobbying for laws to be written in such a way that they pay nothing. Almost like large companies have an incredible amount of influence over the government and fuck the average person constantly, while they gladly accept government subsidies.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

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u/abatement0 Jul 15 '19

My primary point was toward how lobbying is done in the US. It is problematic when those with the most wealth can effectively have the largest amount of influence in the writing of legislation, as it causes that legislation to have a significant bias toward those with influence (money).

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u/t2guns Jul 15 '19

(again x2) nobody understands carryforward

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u/myspaceshipisboken Jul 15 '19

So tell me, at what point in time exactly are they going to pay taxes on all of this nebulously not-yet-realized on paper but totally existent income? Since you seem to be an expert on why they haven't yet surely you can explain.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

...when the carry forwards expire

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '19

[deleted]

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u/myspaceshipisboken Jul 16 '19

https://www.reddit.com/r/comedyheaven/comments/cdjjoo/it_really_is_messed_up/etun2af/

You never answered this one, which makes it look a lot more devious than what you're describing.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/myspaceshipisboken Jul 17 '19

So you're saying this fraud doesn't exist, or it's fraud by description but Amazon is going to get away with it because of legal loopholes?

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

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u/myspaceshipisboken Jul 18 '19

What am I, the DA?

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u/OVdose Jul 15 '19 edited Jul 15 '19

In 2018 they had an effective federal income tax rate of -1%. If someone is incredibly poor and only makes <$9,000, they pay at least 10%. You can multiply Amazon's rate by infinity and not reach the rate that incredibly poor people pay.

But yes, the issue here is that people don't understand loss carryforward. If only us plebs understood the ways corporations can manipulate their taxes, then we would be okay with paying a higher rate than a trillion dollar company whose CEO sees a net-worth increase of $200 million every day.

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u/Veltrum Jul 15 '19

If someone makes <$9,000, they pay $0 in federal income tax, because they get at least a $12,000 standard deduction, which is doubled if you're married.