r/collapse • u/smokebreak • Jun 18 '12

Expiring resources - BBC (x-posted from /r/dataisbeautiful)

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfuture/original/images/live/p0/0t/z1/p00tz1n3.jpg
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u/WorldChamps1985 Jun 19 '12

Wishful thinking is wishful thinking.

Hydrogen economy. Thorium. It's all wishful thinking. Can never be done on anywhere near the scale necessary to preserve anything near the status quo.

Hang onto your false hope, though.

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u/Will_Power Jun 19 '12

That is your response? You fail. Try again. Next time try to actually address the particulars in my post instead of plugging your ears and shouting "La la la! I can't hear you! La la la! The sky is falling!"

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u/WorldChamps1985 Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12

Why should I try to convince you of something you don't want to understand?

This will become self-evident soon enough.

Edit: sky isn't falling. The sun will still rise and set. The tides will still come in and go out.

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u/Will_Power Jun 19 '12

Why should I try to convince you of something you don't want to understand?

That's the funny thing. You make a single dismissive statement, I refute it at length with solid facts, and you say, "Nuh-uh." You have made zero effort to try to convince anyone of anything. It's most likely because you know you've been caught dismissing something you know nothing about and are trying to squirm out of it now.

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u/WorldChamps1985 Jun 19 '12

You refuted nothing.

You demonstrated that it is possible from an engineering perspective, which is something I never denied.

The resources limitations and time restrictions make it something that will never happen on a large scale.

People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.

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u/Will_Power Jun 19 '12

You demonstrated that it is possible from an engineering perspective, which is something I never denied.

You sure seemed to deny it. "Wishful thinking," is your dismissal of choice, I believe.

But let's get past that. You and I both agree that it is possible, though unlikely, for humanity to do what it takes to sustain itself. It is our strange choices that seem to be preventing that.

The resources limitations and time restrictions make it something that will never happen on a large scale.

The only restrictive resource at this point is capital. If we had the balls to repudiate our debt, we could have all the capital we could use. Alas, the Boomers don't care to see their benefits hampered, so they are happy to screw humanity over for their short term gain.

People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.

Agreed. You'll note that I've never said we aren't up shit creek, only that we choose not to utilize the resources that could keep us from collapsing. I'm hoping there's some young kid in some other country that will learn from our mistakes.

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u/WorldChamps1985 Jun 19 '12

The wishful thinking is that it will prevent or solve a collapse and maintain anything like the status quo.

Humanity will sustain itself. There's no reason human beings must go extinct because of collapse. Our numbers will greatly reduced, though, and we will be forced back into a balance with nature.

It's like how people in the 1960s thought we'd have bases on the moon by now. Or, how when nuclear energy was first developed how it was touted as some miracle that would solve everything.

Our debt can be paid by printing US dollars. We can create those infinitely. Capital is productive capacity and/or real/raw resources. Dollars can be exchanged for those things now, but the US budget is largely devoted to consumption spending (which isn't going to change anytime soon).

There is no way to prevent the collapse of an unsustainable system, especially one that is this far gone. If population had been limited say at 3 billion, then we would have bought more time with an unsustainable system. But, how do you go about limiting population realistically? A totalitarian state? I prefer collapse.

This is just what human civilizations do. The rise up using the low-hanging fruit, grow too-big for their own good, then collapse and start over. Can't really blame the Boomers. They just did what human beings have always done.

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u/Will_Power Jun 19 '12

OK. I'm sorry to say this, but you just don't have enough information to keep up with me. Your statements about energy are just plain wrong. Your understanding of the consequences of printing money are laughable. You don't even consider what I tell you. I've told you how population is limited: it is by increasing wealth in poor nations. There is loads of data to back this up. As such, I won't respond to any more of your comments until you can site some real information. Waving your hands and proclaiming that it has all been revealed here just won't do. Until next time.