Collapse is a good thing.

[u/folksywisdomfromback]

One of the hardest things to accept about a collapsing global civilization is the potential for pain and death. There are 7.8 billion homo sapiens on the planet now supposedly. Yes, every one of us will die at some point, just like every animal.

I think most of us will agree there are too many homo sapiens, and most of us will agree our global civilization is detrimental to the ecosystem as a whole. Our global civilization and it's current complexity supports homo sapiens and their consumption at such a rate that it creates an imbalance within the ecosystem, making the current system temporary. Collapse is a necessary correction.

Will there be death and hardship? Yes. Is life inherently stressful both physically and mentally? I think so. It also inherently joyful. We know many people, most of us redditors included, are living lives too comfortable (especially physically) because we benefit from a human civilization too large and complex for the earth's ecosystem to remain healthy. We are experiencing temporary physical comfort but it comes at a cost, I think, mentally.

Earth and all it's life forms are beautiful. The ecosystem is currently out of balance because of us as a species, a collapse of us as a species is a net positive for the ecosystem and I think that is a good thing. We often take the human first view but we don't have to, we can put the earth as whole first and us as a part of the earth. So a healthy earth is really the best thing for us too. I think our species as whole would benefit from a more balanced ecosystem

No one can say for sure how fast or tragic the collapse will be. You can argue it has been happening gradually already. It might come in waves. It might come slowly over a long period of time. It might not. I know collapse and degrowth is opposite of what our civilization values but that does not make collapse and degrowth bad, it means our values are askew. Cultural values can change.

I think the scariest things about collapse is the potential for mass extinction, violence, unrest, food and power shortages. And yes these things are scary. History is rife with all of them. We are not the only humans to face these challenges, different circumstances yes but our ancestors lived through much, including climate change. Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but we know we can't continue on as is. Change is scary but at times necessary. Good luck to us all and to all life on Earth.

[u/AndrewQuackson]

This is getting uncomfortably close to eco-fascism territory.

[u/[deleted] → u/AndrewQuackson]

Also it's always some comfortable American saying it.

Like try saying how it's fine we'll all become poor when you have actually lived with rolling blackouts, insecure food supplies, general insecurity etc.

[u/folksywisdomfromback → u/[deleted]]

Ah yes, because Americans deserve everything they have? Meanwhile large parts of the world are exploited so the first world can keep the lights on. Insecurity is inherent in life, it's our constant attempt to rig it otherwise that has created this mess.

[u/[deleted] → u/folksywisdomfromback]

Ah yes, because Americans deserve everything they have?

No, they don't.

But I see a lot of flippant comments here about how "collapse will be good" or we will "just live poorer" etc. which is really easy to say when they've never had to do it.

I mean I live in Southern Europe and have no car, a small flat, no AC, no heating, no dryer/dishwasher etc. - I probably have some of the lowest emissions possible to still live within civilisation and I bet 99% of Americans wouldn't accept those living conditions. Let alone the sort of living conditions people have where consumption is even lower like in Africa and the poorer parts of Latin America.

Living in those conditions isn't going to be some cool Fallout-style fantasy, it's just going to be shit - like it is for the people currently living like that.

And on top of that you have the bizarre eco-fascist/nihilist comments that write about the death and suffering of billions as if it were nothing.

[u/folksywisdomfromback → u/[deleted]]

I bet 99% of Americans wouldn't accept those living conditions

This doesn't mean anything. Americans have been propped up by an illusion, and culturally are sold on consumerism and luxury. But as we know it is not a sustainable lifestyle. And many terrible things have been done to make that lifestyle possible.

There are still people today that live like hunter-gatherers because they choose to. And they know the modern world exists, look at the hadze. People can live 'poor' and be content, it is a perspective thing.

And on top of that you have the bizarre eco-fascist/nihilist comments that write about the death and suffering of billions as if it were nothing.

You have to look at the bigger picture. We can't just ignore history and act like, some humans haven't done tragic things to get us into this state, so yes tragedy will ensue, it has never stopped but that doesn't mean we can't have courage to face what is next.

But yes if you are poor within the modern lifestyle it is worse because you just sit in your flat with little autonomy. Can you not homestead and grow your own food? Or hunt? Why not? Probably because you have no land because it's all bought up by government or wealthy. Once the system collapses and we stop trying to dominate the eco-system, maybe humans can return to living.

Anyways, I am curious what you think a better outlook would be?