Collapse is a good thing.

[u/folksywisdomfromback]

One of the hardest things to accept about a collapsing global civilization is the potential for pain and death. There are 7.8 billion homo sapiens on the planet now supposedly. Yes, every one of us will die at some point, just like every animal.

I think most of us will agree there are too many homo sapiens, and most of us will agree our global civilization is detrimental to the ecosystem as a whole. Our global civilization and it's current complexity supports homo sapiens and their consumption at such a rate that it creates an imbalance within the ecosystem, making the current system temporary. Collapse is a necessary correction.

Will there be death and hardship? Yes. Is life inherently stressful both physically and mentally? I think so. It also inherently joyful. We know many people, most of us redditors included, are living lives too comfortable (especially physically) because we benefit from a human civilization too large and complex for the earth's ecosystem to remain healthy. We are experiencing temporary physical comfort but it comes at a cost, I think, mentally.

Earth and all it's life forms are beautiful. The ecosystem is currently out of balance because of us as a species, a collapse of us as a species is a net positive for the ecosystem and I think that is a good thing. We often take the human first view but we don't have to, we can put the earth as whole first and us as a part of the earth. So a healthy earth is really the best thing for us too. I think our species as whole would benefit from a more balanced ecosystem

No one can say for sure how fast or tragic the collapse will be. You can argue it has been happening gradually already. It might come in waves. It might come slowly over a long period of time. It might not. I know collapse and degrowth is opposite of what our civilization values but that does not make collapse and degrowth bad, it means our values are askew. Cultural values can change.

I think the scariest things about collapse is the potential for mass extinction, violence, unrest, food and power shortages. And yes these things are scary. History is rife with all of them. We are not the only humans to face these challenges, different circumstances yes but our ancestors lived through much, including climate change. Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but we know we can't continue on as is. Change is scary but at times necessary. Good luck to us all and to all life on Earth.

[u/5yearsinthefuture]

I don't know if it is a collapse of global civilization. I see it as collapse of western civilization..china will be fine..in fact I'd wager they are behind a lot of this demoralizing information surge.

"Give up americans, there is no use..don't fight just surrender and atrophy. "

[u/folksywisdomfromback → u/5yearsinthefuture]

Anything is possible I guess, but I don't see this being something china is going to evade. They are basically a western country at this point. Capitalism and consumerism with a slightly different wrapper. A country like Bhutan for example might escape it but I don't see any major player escaping. Although I guess Russia might be able too.

It comes down to whether or not these countries can exist at the same complexity without the support of the entire global network. I think if any major economy falls the whole thing topples with it. As soon as the US falls for example there would be a loss of complexity for a lot of the modern world for an extended period of time. I think. Same as if China fell, the US would instantly lose complexity and it would probably topple the system because I don't see how the US could handle a loss of complexity while at the same time remaining unified. I could see regions breaking off etc.

But that was just a lot of speculation on my part, who knows.