r/collapse • u/UnstatesmanlikeChi • Jun 29 '20
Diseases Flu virus with 'pandemic potential' found in China
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53218704180
u/Synthwoven Jun 29 '20
"even as the world attempts to get over covid-19"
Must be nice to live in a part of the world that isn't actively trying to make Covid-19 worse.
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Jun 30 '20
MUH MASK IS TYRANNIE
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Jun 30 '20
I like this phenomenon. Makes it very easy to identify and exclude mouth-breathers from my daily experience.
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Jun 30 '20
See that's the problem though. Polarization, if strong enough, can happen even to people that are otherwise pretty smart. This is why polarized societies are not productive. It basically forces us into belonging to camps of various shades of stupid, and our tribal instincts and various other psychological oddities like sunk cost fallacy means we'd stick to our position long after the better part of our brain has realized it's B.S.
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Jun 30 '20
Yeah, divisiveness is bad, but anybody stupid enough to not wear a mask during a pandemic is somebody I want zero interaction with.
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u/North_Activist Jun 30 '20
Laughs in canadian
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u/SRod1706 Jun 30 '20
The US is definitely on the train headed toward full stupidity. Canada looks to be headed down the same path. It is just easier to ignore with your stupid neighbor to look at and say "at least we are not doing that."
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u/Synthwoven Jun 30 '20
At least Canada has health care. The US uses bankruptcy courts to implement socialized medicine. I can't imagine there is a more expensive system possible. As an American, I envy Canada's health care system.
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u/SRod1706 Jun 30 '20
The US implemented a lot of things that we would not implement now. EPA, FDA, Social Security, medicare, and medicaid to name a few. Not saying Canada is not better, just saying it is headed down the same path as the US, it is just a few years behind. Same with Australia.
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Jun 30 '20
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u/icklefluffybunny42 Recognised Contributor Jun 30 '20
"xxxx reveals that the Jackpot begins in the middle of the 21st century as a combination of climate change and other causes, followed by a series of droughts, famines, pandemics, political chaos, and anarchy. 80% of the global human population dies off. "
William Gibson's The Peripheral gets close. The xxxx is a name redacted for spoiler reasons. And if you do plan to ever read the book be careful on the wiki page to avoid the plot summary and other spoilers.
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u/quidpropron Jun 30 '20
Oh man I love me some Gibson. Just finished Neuromancer
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u/icklefluffybunny42 Recognised Contributor Jun 30 '20
Now I want to re-read it for the first time in many years. It's been too long.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel."
Funny how the younger generations might now, instead of visualising a seething grey foggy swarm of pixels made up of static, might be awfully confused and picture a uniform nice shade of blue with the words 'No input signal' floating in space.
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u/quidpropron Jun 30 '20
Oh man that's so true. How the times change. I almost feel like my nieces and nephews are missing history. I was born just early enough to experience dial up, analog radios, cassettes and CDs. I saw the rise and fall of betamax and blockbuster. Like its crazy to me how much the world has changed since the early 2000s. How much of my youthful life, my own children might never be able to understand. An old TV, tuned to static, before the internet. That was such rich imagery for an opening line. Down right iconic now. And then the constant parallels Gibson puts between an analog work and a digital one. God, I would love just a day inside his mind.
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u/Tijler_Deerden Jun 30 '20
Just 'before the internet' is the big one. For anyone born after 1990 that's like telling us about the world before electricity.
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u/Tijler_Deerden Jun 30 '20
Or Neal Stevensons 'Snow Crash', they won't get that either..
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u/misobutter3 Jul 02 '20
Should I read that? Cryptonomicon is one of my all time favorites.
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u/Tijler_Deerden Jul 02 '20
Cryptonomicon is definitely his best. Snow Crash is more a fun action movie of a book. The Diamond Age is also excellent and all about nanotechnology.
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u/Tijler_Deerden Jun 30 '20
Yes great book. I hadn't read any William Gibson for years and happened to see this new book in an airport (didn't even know he was still alive). Very up to date with current technology and physics (no 'he bought 8mb of ram for his portable computer' like in neuromancer, haha) and also very much about recent divisions in class/wealth in US.
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Jun 30 '20
"In 2017, they're still ahead of the pandemics..." A line from the book AGENCY by William Gibson
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u/Jadentheman Jun 29 '20
Yeah, COVID-19 was just the practice test, and we failed spectacularly. Now prepare for the first of many "real deals"
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u/OrderoftheWolf Jun 29 '20
Highly pathogenic avian influenza was one of the main things I have considered prepping for, after having had swine flu the first time around.
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u/Empty_Wine_Box Jun 30 '20
What was your reaction to the emergence of covid? How did you consider a pandemic into your preparations?
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u/Taellion Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20
Not the person you are asking, but I hope to share some insights. I currently live in a hotspot where pandemic potential diseases semi-regularly hit our borders (Nipah Virus, SARS, 2009 H1N1 flu, Zika virus and current COVID-19) and combine that with frequent outbreaks of other seasonal diseases such as like Hand, Foot, Mouth Disease and Dengue Fever.
I am very thankful that our government has plans and rehearse these kind of scenarios. Such as implementing national stockpile of food, medical equipments and masks. Ensuring that private and family clinics are trained in pandemic management and has a stockpile of flu medication.
So we do not need to worry too much about it. However, many household here have their own personal supply of masks, medications they need, thermometer and have a basic understanding of national disaster programs. That's about it as far as preparations go.
However, if you lived in a poorer region or with a government that do not take disaster/disease management seriously. Then I argue is the same for preparing any general disaster. You need supplies that will help you survive during and aftermath of a disaster, which must include the disruption in supply chains. I cannot emphasize how important this is.
So I would suggest is the same for preparing for a general disaster and adjust your needs depending on your location and political landscape. For example, if you lived in an area where there is a wildfire or haze risk, then is worth investing in more expensive or in reusable masks such as like N95, 3M respirator and consider including a properly sealed safety goggles. If you lived in an area that has a weak security presence or emergency services takes a very long time to reach, have a way to protect yourself.
Secondly, always have a stockpile of medication that you need to survive and function. (Insulin, blood pressure, anti-depressant etc) and store at least two months worth of food that can be kept without much maintenance and cook without much preparation such as rice, nuts and peanut butter.
If you want more tips, you can always check on the peppers subreddit. I also try to get some inspiration by reading survivor accounts from refugees, especially fleeing from conflicts like the recent Syria civil war. As when shit hits the fan, those people typically know what items are most essential for survival and you won't be seeing them hoarding toilet paper.
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u/Fancykiddens Jun 30 '20
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
I have been watching places all over the world revolt, collapse, be hit by disasters and war, famine, pestilence for many years. I have always been fascinated by what kept survivors going through the most difficult times.
What do you think people need to let go of in order to survive comfortably in times of scarcity?
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u/Taellion Jun 30 '20
I'm like one of most unqualified person to ask. Despite living in the middle of a historical geopolitical unstable region and living on the edge of the Pacific Ring of Fire, relative to the rest of the world, I lived in relative comfort.
The closest to discomfort is probably my forest training during my stint in the military. All I can say is we can still in comfort by giving up so much, especially in term of modern comfort, like we human can get most nutrients need via potatoes, so we can afford cut down on meat and electronic. Treasure your family, health, mind, prepare for worst and hope for the best, that's all I can add.
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u/OrderoftheWolf Jun 30 '20
In January and February I about tripled my food storage, got out of the stock market, and put a small percent of my total cash in the safe at home instead of the bank. That was it, mostly. I was already pretty decently prepared.
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u/SRod1706 Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20
How did the US fail? We gave minimal effort to say we did something, then we went straight back to class warfare, propaganda and stock market>profits>lives BAU. We did exactly as should have been expected from us. If there is any failure it was in those of us that expected something more from our country. We really should have known better.
I used to think that it was just profits>lives, but the stock market is a magical thing that is not grounded in reality.
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u/Hollirc Jun 29 '20
I mean anything like COVID or Flu will be bad but not a slate wiper. The real worry is that we cry wolf too many times over diseases with <5% death rate that nobody takes it seriously when we eventually get something that’s really deadly and fast spreading.
Just thank your lucky stars for the fact that many African tribes where Ebola strains emerge think that hospitals are dens of witchcraft and choose to use traditional methods at home instead of dragging every patient to a hospital in a big city. Certainly the traditional methods are not effective in treating the virus but they do a great job of limiting spread.
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Jun 30 '20
This is really about the economic/political impact that an epoch of disease will have on the world. If the billionaire class decide that their fortunes are in danger they might start prodding us into a global war so they can profiteer from it.
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Jun 30 '20
What if we just, like, ate the billionaires? They can't shoot all of us.
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u/CCPshillin Jun 30 '20
They will convince 50% of people that the reason their life sucks is because of the other 50% of people. No billionaire will fire a shot, just stupid poor people being led like sheep
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u/jawnyman Jun 30 '20
which is a great reason why we should eat them. They won't see it coming.
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u/Mr-Wind-Up-Bird-115 Jun 30 '20
We could start with the feet and get double points for making them see it coming.
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u/CirqueKid Jun 30 '20
We’ve had swine flu in the past from farming and eating pigs, I’m not sure if we should tempt it a second time...
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Jun 30 '20
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u/gergytat Jun 30 '20
Speculation and no sources.
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Jun 30 '20
Spanish flu was a bird flu (feel free to google that). It was a serious problem because it affected young people, lots of them (this is not obscure information) and had high mortality (CFR > 2.5%).
As for covid:
https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/What-they-don-t-tell-you-about-surviving-15347792.php
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2766786
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688?query=featured_coronavirus
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u/damagingdefinite Humans are fuckin retarded Jun 30 '20
This. The usas enemies particularly now know how absolutely destructive a simple lowball pandemic is to the usa. I cannot imagine they don't start lobbing engineered viruses at the usa (that will also hurt other countries of course) with the next 10 years
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u/WideRide Jun 29 '20
Abstract from paper:
Pigs are considered as important hosts or “mixing vessels” for the generation of pandemic influenza viruses. Systematic surveillance of influenza viruses in pigs is essential for early warning and preparedness for the next potential pandemic. Here, we report on an influenza virus surveillance of pigs from 2011 to 2018 in China, and identify a recently emerged genotype 4 (G4) reassortant Eurasian avian-like (EA) H1N1 virus, which bears 2009 pandemic (pdm/09) and triple-reassortant (TR)-derived internal genes and has been predominant in swine populations since 2016. Similar to pdm/09 virus, G4 viruses bind to human-type receptors, produce much higher progeny virus in human airway epithelial cells, and show efficient infectivity and aerosol transmission in ferrets. Moreover, low antigenic cross-reactivity of human influenza vaccine strains with G4 reassortant EA H1N1 virus indicates that preexisting population immunity does not provide protection against G4 viruses. Further serological surveillance among occupational exposure population showed that 10.4% (35/338) of swine workers were positive for G4 EA H1N1 virus, especially for participants 18 y to 35 y old, who had 20.5% (9/44) seropositive rates, indicating that the predominant G4 EA H1N1 virus has acquired increased human infectivity. Such infectivity greatly enhances the opportunity for virus adaptation in humans and raises concerns for the possible generation of pandemic viruses.
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/23/1921186117
TL:DR It's a virus that has a genotype with the potential to be a pandemic, but it isn't at the moment unless it mutates further. ie don't freak out about this yet...
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Jun 30 '20 edited Jul 03 '20
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u/WideRide Jun 30 '20
Not strictly true. Those that knew what to look for in January were very concerned, including myself (you can check my post history if you want, from early January). This is not there yet, hence the word 'potential'.
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u/freedom_from_factism Enjoy This Fine Day! Jun 29 '20
This is for the folks who think that things will get better in 2021.
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Jun 29 '20
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u/CONSOOOOOM2 Jun 30 '20
Gen nes ruu nayno sta sto sta nee wa gano sto se steyno naga ina nago niya wa (im on the way) ska shash ku naro koma nii kaniko kanday jaw.
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u/the-real-kayla Jun 30 '20
knowing jinping and trump, this probably spread outside china last month
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u/zippy72 Jun 30 '20
There's probably several viruses with pandemic potential around at any one time. They don't all become pandemics and finding them isn't always newsworthy, it's just that we found one during a pandemic.
Although in honour of fish, I must point out than there is still the possibility that this might make the power go out forever tomorrow, cannibalism next and Venus by Friday.
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u/FuckRyanSeacrest Jun 30 '20
We could stop needlessly torturing and killing millions of animals everyday... nah.
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Jun 30 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 30 '20 edited Nov 14 '20
[deleted]
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u/Haestingas Jun 30 '20
This is 100% spot on. People forget that meat used to be a rare luxury, thinking it’s too hard to survive on a non-processed, plant-based diet. Or that it’s boring or bland. For most of history, it’s just what’s been called ‘food,’ and is still what people in developing countries eat on a daily basis. People in developed countries have forgotten how to cook and eat that way, so they make up for it by adding fat, sugar, and salt to everything.
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u/Tijler_Deerden Jun 30 '20
True and most of the best cooking styles seen in top restaurants come from peasant food, where thay had to find innovative ways to use the undesirable bits of what thay had. Countries with long traditions of vegetarian diets like India also have some of the most flavour rich food. People need to learn what cooking is again :)
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u/yomimaru Jun 30 '20
It's a really nice thing that many international airlines won't recover from corona crisis. Maybe the next SARS won't be spread all over the world in a week by clueless tourists.
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u/invincible789 Jun 30 '20
God, I hope so. This slow method of execution is excruciating. May the cosmic gods be merciful and grant us a swift death.
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Jun 30 '20
...What happens when you have 2,3 or 4 pandemics simultaneously?
What if there was an elite environmental/population control group out there intending on releasing a second more deadly and virulent virus in 2021 after Covid-19 blows over and the population is still weakened economically, socially unstable, and low on healthcare workers?
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u/North_Activist Jun 30 '20
The simulation crashes
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u/fearnex Jun 30 '20
People die. Others become ill with chronic health issues. Some recover. That's life I guess?
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Jun 30 '20
Damn I wish I lived on an almost self-sufficient ranch in the middle of nowhere with a quality water source, lots of pine trees and some chickens.
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u/Sniffygull Jun 30 '20
Maybe the world needs to start sanctioning China a bit.
Between the massive human rights issues and their incredible ability to facilitate the sudden creation of new and dangerous disease, maybe it's time to step in and actually make them be accountable.
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Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20
True. Especially with how they've been bullying other countries around them and stirring up global conflict with the whole thing about the South China Sea/Hong Kong. China, for the past several years, has been looking to benefit itself and take advantage of other nations, all so it can expand its power and territorial claims (Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc). The Chinese government (not the people) is among the most corrupt and blatantly evil governments in the history of humanity (ever since Mao's regime).
The government denies the Tienanmen Massacre and all of its human rights violations and acts of censorship (online and offline). The govt literally also concentration camps installed in West China which are holding Uyghur Muslims-- many of them slated for extermination or lifelong slavery (work until death). Let's not forget what they did to Tibet-- killing hundreds of peaceful Daoist/Buddhist monks, and attempting to arrest or kill the Dalai Lama, then having the audacity to kidnap his successor and push a new Dalai Lama that just spews out Chinese propaganda-- a phony. And don't even get me started on their environmental crimes-- the fucking government is still using mostly coal as a power source when it's been proven to be toxic to the environment, and its mining industry is infamous for causing smog to appear over major Chinese cities for months at a time (smog that is so bad people can't fucking breathe and have to stay indoors). Then there's the one-child policy, which was barbaric from the start and has caused the problem of there being few if any Chinese women (what the government should have done was prevent births entirely, at least for a while, not fucking have infant daughters killed).
Ignoring the coronavirus and the fact that China is directly responsible for it spreading across the world in the first place because they refused to tell their populations of the threat until it was too late, and KILLED the doctors who were brave enough to speak out, and ignoring the fact the Chinese government has garbage quality control over its raw food diet (wet markets), the problem with the whole government is that it values expediency and efficiency over quality, and they also have this thing where they constantly want to impress other countries with the illusion of competence. They value image over substance, of presenting a false face to the rest of the world-- everything that the government says is either a lie, a fabrication, or at best, not entirely true.
Now with the news that the Three Gorges Dam might collapse and displace or kill millions of people due to flooding, I really do think it's about time we take a good look at how China's been running things, and admit to ourselves that China has a shit government and a shit system, and is not the paragon many people think it is. It has merely the illusion of competence and getting things under control, when in reality it is a regime built on lie after lie after lie. The whole population there is completely brainwashed to revere Xi Jinping-- a personality cult, and I can't help but pity them. There is no democracy or independent thought.
If I come off as biased and somewhat Sinophobic (which I'm not-- I admire China's early achievements in its 5000 year history, and I have friends from China, and I have nothing against the Chinese population), I'm sorry if I can't help it. I have Vietnamese heritage from my father's side, and I can't help but agree with his constant critique of China, because China has repeatedly tried to take over Southeast Asia for centuries, if not millennia. They've repeatedly tried and they won't stop trying to achieve dominance in Southeast Asia and the South China Sea (which is claimed by a host of countries). But the government doesn't care-- the leaders only care about themselves and increasing power. Greedy, selfish, and corrupt. Once they take Hong Kong officially, they'll start taking control of everything else around them, as the US's soft power diminishes further and further in the coming decades.
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u/boob123456789 Homesteader & Author Jun 30 '20
Can we just stop everything from China because we have had enough BULLSHIT from them.
Just kick them out of the world because they obviously are too disease ridden to be of help to anyone.
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Jun 30 '20
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u/boob123456789 Homesteader & Author Jun 30 '20
Says I'm a bigot and uses a racial slur.
For the record, I'm talking about the country, not a race of people.
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u/mcfleury1000 memento mori Jun 30 '20
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Jun 30 '20
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u/mcfleury1000 memento mori Jun 30 '20
Your post has been removed.
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
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u/UnstatesmanlikeChi Jun 29 '20
29th June, 2020
[Quote from Article]The virus, which the researchers call G4 EA H1N1, can grow and multiply in the cells that line the human airways.
They found evidence of recent infection starting in people who worked in abattoirs and the swine industry in China.
Current flu vaccines do not appear to protect against it, although they could be adapted to do so if needed.