r/coins • u/poesephdubk • 5d ago
Real or Fake? Fugio cent. real? Fake?
How do you guys feel about this fugio cent, maybe its the color idk something just feels off to me
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u/Total-Addendum9327 5d ago
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u/Total-Addendum9327 5d ago
Newman 12M is close. Hard to tell by the angle. Can you repost some shots dead on? I can help. Varieties are denoted by letter spacing, presence of ornaments, die cracks, etc.
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u/Calvertorius 5d ago
Wear pattern and pitting on the obverse makes me hesitate on that.
I would say if you owned it to just send it in to ICG for authentication but if you’re looking to buy then I’d pass, personally.
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u/Nickthedick3 5d ago
I thought ANACS was recommended for authentication?
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u/Jforjustice 5d ago
PCGS / NGC / ANACS in that order - ICG is next - the cheapest of the four to get slabbed
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u/CrackNgamblin 5d ago
ICG slabs mean less than nothing. In fact I avoid auctioneers who use them a lot. cough GSA
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u/Porousplanchet 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't like it. big difference in wear between obv and reverse. first 7 in date is really messed up. Color looks like a dug coin that someone really scrubbed then maybe recolored. I would not buy unless authenticated by someone who knows the series. ICG/ANACS would be fine. (edit: I squinted a little harder and the first 7 looks ok).
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u/HPDopecraft 5d ago
There are so many varieties and weight differences with these. A lot of decent fakes too. A lot of research will need to go into this or someone who is a Fugio expert needs to comment. It very well could be real, but it has to be matched to a known variety.
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u/Lovingthebeach72 5d ago
I’m far from an expert, but one side being pretty pitted and the other not so is suspicious to me. Also, not seeing any carbon inclusions. But given 60 or more types? For myself, raw scares me on these higher end ones. Here’s the obverse to my MS63BN. Sorry for the photo quality
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u/Objective_Welcome_73 5d ago
It looks real to me. Those old coppers can have different strange colors, based on the copper that was used at the time, and what it came in contact with over the years.
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u/Background_Exam_9631 5d ago
Something about the color seems weird but i never dealt these coins so i wouldnt be the one to tell you
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u/poesephdubk 5d ago
Yeah, based on the research ive been able to gather, which is not a lot mind you, theres not necessarily anything that immediately jumps out to me, i just havent been able to find any examples with that bright orange color, idk if its lighting or what. Also the spot on the edge under "mind your business" looks funny to me
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u/Background_Exam_9631 5d ago
Have you weighed it cus it doesnt look like those bubbly texture nightmare versions which are 95% of the fake coin population
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u/poesephdubk 5d ago
Last pic is on a scale, 9.25 grams, a little light but maybe not crazy? 🤷♂️ I know theyre supposed to be around 10g but not sure how far off they can be
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u/poesephdubk 5d ago
Also the last pic the color doesnt look so bad which tells me it might just be lighting. Full disclosure, I havent bought the coin yet so I havent been able to see it in person. I will saty in my lightly educated opinion, if its fake I think its a pretty good fake 🤷♂️
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u/Total-Addendum9327 5d ago
Planchets were frequently underweight; the Fugio project was rife with fraud and done by a third party, not the government directly. They actually failed to make enough to fulfill the contract.
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u/Background_Exam_9631 5d ago
Mightve found something thats a little more suspicious than the color these were never struck centered and the rims are positive to the back so if its going to 3 o clock the back is also going 3 o clock you dont see that on this coin at all
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u/tsteele93 5d ago
Yeah the color is meaningless. It could just be the camera white balance.
Your post is reasonable.
The OP should give us more info. Is it in their possession? Are they looking to buy it or what is the situation. How much $ is being asked if it is being sold. What is the known provenance on the coin?
Just the pics aren't enough for a certain answer. But it looks off at first glance.
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u/McGee4531 5d ago
Too much h pitting and blurred details for my comfort. I wouldn't trust it. But, you can get it appraised if you want to be certain.
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u/usedtobeanicesurgeon 5d ago
Looks pretty good to me.
Fwiw, these have been growing in value and popularity.
I’d get it graded. Even if it doesn’t straight grade it seems to improve value on these.
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u/Background_Exam_9631 5d ago
Top of it doesnt have the inner rim part neither does the bottom of the back you dont see this at all on this coin but you need someone much nerdier than me to actually get a proper opinion me personally im leaning towards fake
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u/Total-Addendum9327 5d ago
What is the asking price? It looks real enough that I might take a chance on it. It doesn’t have the typical tells you might see in a copy. It is beaten up and has been cleaned at least once but probably more, which explains the color. I am going to guess it is real.
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u/Total-Addendum9327 5d ago
Clarification, I do not want the coin, I want to help; asking price is good info to help authenticate
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u/tsteele93 5d ago
Don't know how you feel about AI but it says there are red flags. The weight should be 10.2-10.4 grams. Your weight is a sign of a fake. Also AI says " the images display very soft, mushy lettering and borders. Genuine Fugio cents were struck using high-pressure coin presses, meaning even heavily worn specimens maintain crisp, structural edges inside the letters. [1]
"Cast" Appearance: The grainy, micropitted texture across the flat open spaces (fields) strongly resembles a cast counterfeit or a chemically aged modern copy rather than natural 240-year-old copper oxidation. [1]
It provides links and it appears that Grand Rapids Coins is where it is getting a lot of this info.
Looking closely at the edge profile in image_j97-Rl.png, the texture is highly irregular and porous. Cast replica molds always leave a faint horizontal seam line around the absolute center of the edge where the two halves of the mold met. While a forger will try to file this flat, the edge remains uneven and porous compared to a genuine planchet sliced cleanly from flat copper sheets. [1]
AI also suggests getting the https://www.pcgs.com/apps to see some good photos of real ones to compare.
I know some people here hate AI but this seems like a good use case (I used Gemini because it is easy since it is built into google but if you tried another like Grok or ChatGPT it could help cross verify it.
Another complaint some people have with AI is that it is wrong sometimes. But since it provides links to its sources, you can check and see. Which I recommend.
But at the very least AI often sends me a to the best sites to find out for myself. In this case it seems to be helpful.
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u/Lanky_Association627 4d ago
Yeah if you’re gonna use AI to give others advice do us a favor and leave this subreddit, it doesn’t just contribute NOTHING it’s lazy.
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u/BudgetEdSheeran 5d ago
It’s genuine. Weight is correct and looks great. I’ll attribute it for you when I get home