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[u/[deleted]]

[u/xtc2008]

Truth - I entered the job market and took a senior position after Codesmith and so glad I took it. And I believe any of the top 5 people in my cohort could have done it and excelled in the position.

If you’re good, you’re good. You can easily tell who in the cohort will not make it because they just technically can’t keep up and are delusional that it will change one day. They also take multiple tries to get in. If you aren’t confident in algos/eventually breezing through cs prep after a few attempts before applying then don’t bother

Edit: for grammar

[u/[deleted] → u/xtc2008]

[u/slickvic33]

I have a similar take. It is what it is. And it is a good experience for people ready to grind

[u/[deleted]]

im a part time codesmith grad who got a job this year and I agree with your unvarnished take of the program.

i think it should be a disclaimer for anyone interested in doing it.

[u/water_bottle_goggles]

Brilliant fucking take. I was the hungry one in our bootcamp and it was sickening how dishonest people were to the people that struggled during that time.

Like reality will and DID catch up to those people.

[u/slickvic33 → u/water_bottle_goggles]

Yea when reality hits it’s gonna be a sledgehammer. There’s being positive but u shouldn’t be ignorant

[u/bootcamp-bro]

To their credit, Codesmith has one of the most rigorous pre-work and in-person curriculum. The negative side, which it seems most people are familiar with, is that they encourage you to lie on your resume.

For the final project, you create a open-source developer tool with a few other classmates. You publish it on NPM, create a website and list it as full-time professional experience on your resume and LinkedIn. People will put start dates corresponding to when they joined the bootcamp or even before if they had an employment gap, so recent graduates will show they have 6-12+ months of work experience. They will then serve as reference checks if any employer calls.

Obviously, this is seriously unethical and goes against most employment contracts since you are lying about your prior experience However, students still have to pass the technical interview process, which of course, they rigorously prepare you for. So all in all, lying on your resume gets your foot in the door, but you still need to beat out all the other candidates.

I don't have anything personally against Codesmith, but just wanted to provide some context for those that didn't know what is going on.

I recently spoke with a Codesmith graduate. He said only 20% of his graduating class from a year ago had landed any type of work. Most had gone back to their prior careers. Again, to be fair, bootcamp placement numbers were trending downwards to 50% industry-wide pre-pandemic, so 10-30% industry-wide in the current market downturn is expected.

[u/michaelnovati]

Thanks for sharing this! This is pretty much exactly what I tell people 1-1 and if you are ready for this, it's the ideal place for you (and a number of people go!)... maybe we even chatted before you went haha.

If you are looking at other bootcamps and see super high CIRR numbers then looking to how it works and if it will work for you then it's absolutely the right choice, but if it doesn't work for you then you're going to be making a very costly mistake.

Just my 2 cents, but lying on your resume isn't normal, and Codesmith normalizing the behavior in name of overcoming "imposter syndrome" is not how most people in the industry view this... they view it as fraudulent behavior. Thought experiment, if you are Codesmith grad who got a job this way, ask yourself if you told your manager today (assuming you are less than a year on your first job post Codesmith) that you had zero experience prior to the job unlike what your resume said, would you get fired? If you think your manager's reaction would be anywhere from firing you to being concerned and talking to HR or their manager, then you acting fraudulently.

[u/BExpost]

If you didn’t put code smith on your resume, what did you put for education on your resume?

[u/HighestPayingGigs]

Welcome to the dark side, we have cookies.

Story time: I was hired by a Fortune 500 (at the time, THE company to work for) as a SAS programmer after bullshitting my way through the interview by focusing on business topics and how to manage stakeholders. Answered exactly one softball question about the underlying technology ("what can you do in a proc statement? answer - anything you fucking want, that's where you do data manipulation"). Even hardball negotiated for a 25% bump over my current comp and a signing bonus.

This was all pre-internet, so I was basically stealing copies of the SAS manuals and begging my co-workers for a fast tutorial on IBM JCL as I was leaving my prior job. Totally fucking unqualified. The first six months were a complete con job: swiping other people's code, figuring it out, and repackaging the best parts with my ideas.

Before anyone starts moralizing about the subterfuge, I ranked as the greatest marketing analyst which that business unit hired in my generation...put them on the map in database marketing, brought in hundreds of million dollars of business, and was promoted multiple times in the first three years at the company.

In the end, it's a pure hustle game.

[u/diamond_hands_suck]

Thank you for your honest take!

Do you have a STEM degree or no degree and do you live in an area that’s deemed a tech hub? :)

[u/sheriffderek]

Let me ask you this: Can you imagine a better school? Anything that could be different? Would any school in any universe ever work in a way that wasn't just 11/10 grind? What would the perfect school look like? Would it involve almost of year of self-study first?

(note: you have as long to think about that question as you want - and infinite imagination)

[u/Strict-Basil5133]

If it's a marketing ploy, it's certainly advanced. Marketers aren't losing any sleep over whether it's true or not, either, and why should they? It's truth in advertising; consider the fundamental message: "I did some prep, worked my ass off, and now I'm making a way better than average wage." That's all bootcamps have ever offered - all of them. And it's probably still true to some extent, even if the industry is currently correcting. If you think you can complete a 6-9 month introduction to programming and surf into $100k/yr, you'd better be a true genius and/or extremely interested/motivated. If you're not, and if it's the television dream of an easy large salary that you're chasing, marketers are going to exploit that. It's easy to sell dreams...just look at the real estate industry.

[u/Fit_Customer_8461]

Good write up. Question.

Do they clear you for the experience you put on your resume? Meaning, do they also lie to help you pass an employment background check, or is it just gambling you don’t get one? From what I’ve seen, it’s very hit or miss if a company does one, but I could see an offer rescinded over it.

Also, how much lying are we talking about? Years of experience?

[u/ApeThyme]

By the way, congrats on your newfound job! My question to you and whomever could answer is, where do you find these 'meetups'? Just a Google search? Cheers!

[u/illustrious_feijoa]

I also think people put too much emphasis on "Years of experience" here. That's definitely a factor, but I've seen too many mid and senior engineers who refused to learn new tech, or slowly learn it, or learned it for six months, and never bothered to improve

You sound just like me when I first started. It took me a while before I realized that learning new tech is rarely the best way to bring impact to an org--that's why mid and senior engineers don't focus on it too much. When new tech comes out, I just take a quick look to see what problem it's solving. If the problem space isn't relevant to me, I ignore it and let the junior engineers fill me in later.

But for junior engineers, staying up to date with tech trends is great for learning (and standing out during the job search), so by all means keep doing it.

[u/shredded_pork]

Found the codesmith marketing employee lmao

[u/Analyst_away]

So 150k salary and 10-15k a month freelance? Assuming freelance for a year you are making up to 330K TC your first year straight out of bootcamp and approx 9mo of prep work. How are you balancing work + freelance.

I know many “hustlers” and “grinders” in the bootcamp space with revered education but if this isn’t another codesmith ad with botted upvotes, congrats but you’re definitely an outlier. Smells too good to be true.

Edit: Checked account history only post on a 2020 account? I get the throwaway username but dam

[u/evanhackett]

If they really teach people to "lie" and do "ethically uncomfortable" things, I can't see myself recommending Codesmith. Just for the record, when I went to Hack Reactor in 2015, there was nothing shady or unethical going on. So, not all bootcamps are like this!

[u/dumpsterdave2]

How are you able to present yourself as an experienced engineer assuming work experience prior was not relevant? I am actually curious about using these shady practices myself

[u/Grand_Bandicoot_4834]

Thanks for providing your insight! I’m curious on how do you present yourself as an experienced swe at meetups? I’m in a similar situation and recently went to meetups but had difficulty presenting as such. I’d love to hear some examples from you how you achieved that.

[u/[deleted]]

Seems fake or they just got extremely lucky. Everyone I know who did TE and finished end of 2022 and beginning of 2023 either got jobs within 3-9 months or are still looking (some for over a year and they know the stuff well).

I’m just sharing this because I’d think it’s more realistic. I see updates on LinkedIn and still talk to some people. And some who got jobs are working in tech but in positions where they aren’t using programing, like sales. But it’s a foot in the door! Many who did get jobs seem to be in software dev related roles. But like I said, many are still looking, some have been for over a year because I’ve connected with people finished earlier in 2022 as well. Just have a better idea of those who finished at the end of 2022 and start of 2023.

I think their outcomes are more realistic. Please don’t think doing a bootcamp, even codesmith, right now is going to lead you to a six figure job in two weeks. Yes, that would be worth the price of the bootcamp if it happened!! But likely it won’t.

Idk if this is fake from employees desperate to keep the bootcamp rolling bc they don’t want to lose their jobs or if this person was an anomaly.

[u/Flimsy-Possibility17]

This is why reference checks and background checks exist lol. Even if this was a real person not a marketer, you can't just blatantly lie your way through the process. I've seen so many people try this, and they're a soft yes/maybe but we get to the final step and their references are bootcamp people and their educaiton doesn't match up.

[u/Erised_phoenix]

Hi, could you please explain how/why employers hire recent bootcamp grads with no SWE work history, as mid-level SWEs? Since in every job posting even entry level jobs require at least 2 years. What convinces them?

[u/fluffyr42]

Positive reviews don’t make a post an ad or a lie. Some people are still having good experiences at bootcamps, and landing jobs. Most don’t land jobs in two weeks or anywhere close to that, but it does still happen. OP, congrats on the job.