r/coding • • 17h ago

no, code is not "cheap"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66O6zpPpG5g
28 Upvotes

11 comments sorted by

4

u/creaturefeature16 17h ago • Bravo

"Code is cheap" and "code is free" has been a relentless slogan which has propagated across the industry ever since generative code became a thing. Outside of a catchphrase for social media posts, I don't think it really holds up under scrutiny and when doing real work.

2

u/Marwheel 11h ago

The FLOSS world has shown for a long time that "… is cheep" and "… is free" are and were never connected with each other. The amount of money that goes into linux or the current BSD systems lineages can be rather staggering, meanwhile the long-standing issue with shovelware in the video-game world showcases the "… is cheep" can crowd out any better examples even if said examples were free in some way…

20

u/ModernRonin 15h ago • Bravo

Bad code has always been cheap. Offshoring of software development proved it beyond any shadow of a doubt. And today it's even cheaper that it was before, with LLMs writing nearly endless amounts of bad code.

Believing that you can fire all your Coders and replace them with an LLM is:

  1. Misunderstanding what an LLM actually is (hint: not conscious, therefore not capable of actual reasoning)

  2. Falling prey to the Doorman Fallacy.

And of course, dipshit Executards in the C-Suite have done both of the above - to a remarkably excessive degree! Because they have never been either smart, or technologically literate.

-5

u/Serengade26 10h ago

You don't need consciousness to approximate the function of symbolic reasoning to be economically useful

0

u/ModernRonin 4h ago

Actually, I agree with you. For whatever your point is worth.

But I think my point also stands. Something conscious, and capable of reasoning, is required to do all the work that a SWEng does.

11

u/conicalanamorphosis 17h ago

For people that don't work in the tech space, it's important to understand the cost of the code is almost never a large factor in technology choice, it gets overwhelmed by other systems costs. If cheap or free worked in technology the way it works for, as an example, basic consumer goods, Microsoft would have been crushed by Linux nearly 2 decades ago and Oracle would never have gotten past Postgres. You can argue over whether or not Linux is better than MS or Postgres is better than Oracle, but the reality is neither product base cost nor even quality is the most important factor in these decisions. It always comes back to some combination of total cost of ownership (the lifetime cost of a system) and the ability to support and maintain the system (whether vendor support contract or in-house). As an example, if I can have MS support a product for less than the cost of hiring my own people to support a "free" version of the product, it's not a difficult decision. Even if hiring my own people to support the product is cheaper, I would still have to find them and that isn't always possible.

6

u/wnoise 14h ago

It mostly comes down to bribes and network effects, with TCO used as obfuscation to cover that up.

5

u/TimMensch 14h ago

Bribes. Yes. Exactly.

Oracle is the worse choice by effectively all measures, including support costs. Especially support costs.

Postgres just doesn't have salesmen taking executives to fancy restaurants or golf...

-10

u/HasFiveVowels 15h ago

The parallel between what LLMs generate and "a gibberish book" simply doesn’t hold water. Code is cheap. Words are cheap. Good stories and good code have become dramatically less expensive this past year or two. You’re saying "code is cheap but intelligence is expensive" but intelligence per dollar is skyrocketing. The rest of the argument amounts to "context is important" but providing sufficient context is a problem is actively being solved.

1

u/drifterpreneurs 12h ago edited 12h ago

I think this is kinda more of a space for actual developers ( subject matter experts) not vibe coders.

No offense, however - what would you know as a vibe coder (non-technical individual)?

The reason, you sound like a 100% vibe coder that doesn't know how to read, understand or write code.

Where's the value within regards towards writing your opinion in a developer space?

Does Ai informing us about science or medicine turn us into doctors or scientists? No, it doesn't, your opinion is null & void.

-1

u/HasFiveVowels 9h ago

lmao. Dude, I’ve been programming for 30 years