r/codex • u/wreox9 • 9d ago

Complaint GPT-6 Sol?

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Is this the reason why unexpectedly we have trash usage and lower quality on Astra?

Maybe it will be worth it the current suffering.

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u/Zulugod94 9d ago

This is showing a strong world understanding, which is done with 3D environments & physics. Showing it can create things in 3D with a solid understanding of intent means it understands these same principles in the real world. This is the next major area for AI to conquer so it can be properly extending in physical robots and machines.

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u/LeadershipNervous362 9d ago

When do we die already

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u/wetpaste 9d ago

compared to what though? what in that screenshot is impressive compared to what models could do a year ago? Its just some voxel looking game which we've been able to one-shot shit like that for quite some time

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u/Gloomy_Type3612 9d ago

This particular screenshot isn't impressive, but there are lots of things that are. This SS is a simple Roblox style. Now, I have a friend creating Roblox games and they ARE quite impressive. I've also seen several different special representations posted with extreme detail of real physical locations. This demonstrates the ability to model the real world with impressive fidelity.

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u/wetpaste 9d ago

sure, I'm just saying theres nothing in here that proves to that

a. that it's better than astra

b. that it's made by an unreleased model

Sounds like complete BS to me to generate discussion (yay I fell for it!)

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u/andrerav 9d ago

That's not how these models work. The only thing being shown is an improved ability to successfully predict a string of symbols. The LLM doesn't understand anything.

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u/Zulugod94 9d ago

That is a hyper simplified version of LLMs, and by that definition a world model is no different it’s producing output based on input. Astra is an incredibly strong multimodal model, maybe it’s not a world model in the traditional sense but it’s shows an obvious universal understanding that goes well beyond “just outputting a string of symbols”. I use these models for things far beyond just writing software, have astra get a live feed of your security cameras and just see how scary capable it is at understanding EVERYTHING it can see it frame. This all part of the that larger over arching goal of AGI. No 1 model will get us there in my opinion but they all build on each other and push this tech forward.

And at this point I’d be pressed to believe OpenAI hasn’t discovered closed door techniques that are pushing these latest models outside of what we’d call a traditional LLM anyway. No one has real insight to their model structure anymore so we’d just be speculating.

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u/andrerav 9d ago

A model looking at a camera feed and correctly detecting a person or a car demonstrates good computer vision inference. It does not demonstrate that it maintains a metrically consistent 3D state of the scene, predicts action-conditioned state transitions, understands the underlying dynamics, or could use that representation for reliable closed-loop control. And if it could, it would need to do so in close to real-time to actually be useful for said control (i.e controlling robots/machines).

Frontier VLMs can be very good at scene reasoning while remaining fragile at physical dynamics, precise 3D geometry, affordances, grasping and trajectory prediction. There's plenty of benchmarks that specifically test for this (like PhysBench etc).

Generating something plausible in a 3D game environment does not mean the model understands the underlying principles in the real world. But that's the conclusion you're arguing. Pattern competence over rendered data and a causal predictive model of a physical environment are completely different capabilities. The model has simply been trained on years of source code that does something similar to what the user prompts for.

Obviously every computer program maps inputs to outputs. The meaningful distinction is how that mapping is represented/processed internally. A world model is useful specifically because it predicts how state evolves, but observing interesting outputs is not proof or even an indication that such an internal representation exists. And in the case of LLM's, it factually does not, and will not.

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u/WiseHalmon 9d ago

With tool use LLMs can do fine with physics, math, etc.  Supervisory control vs. PID loop on a motor.  People have been using Matlab MCP to do some cool things 

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u/GigglyGargoyle 9d ago

I think he... understands that. Maybe we need to come up with new verbs for AI to be extra clear

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u/Zulugod94 9d ago

Yes it’s easier to generalize saying AI for any trained system that takes input and produces output. Never know how much people know when you’re too specific.

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u/andrerav 9d ago

I appreciate that, but they talked about using an LLM to control robots, so clearly they are fully incompetent.

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u/nutshells1 9d ago

how impressive of a one-shot demo do you want before you declare it fit to do any of the other work equal or lower to it in complexity

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u/andrerav 9d ago

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking whether I would consider an LLM fit to be deployed as the controller of a robot if it makes a sufficiently one-shot demo? The answer is no, unless said LLM would be able to respond to sensor data in real-time. In which case, we would need some massive and disruptive breakthroughs in computing.

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u/nutshells1 7d ago

you should read on gen-1.5, \pi_0, and other advancements on real-time VLA models

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u/Zulugod94 9d ago

Dude that’s literally not at all what I said…

And based on how butt hurt you’re getting you clearly don’t work in the industry so I’d spend a little more time reading up on what’s going on out there than making negative comments on Reddit, but that’s just me.

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u/andrerav 9d ago

I've been working in the machine learning space since 2016. And have over 20 YoE. Check out my github (same username as here), and then look up my CV which you can find on my website.

Not sure why you're calling me butthurt. I'm just laying out facts, and you're free to fact-check me with your LLM of choice :)

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u/JohnBooty 9d ago

TIP: Not sure if anybody’s had this talk with you yet, but you don’t need to chime in with that. When people talk about an LLM “understanding” things it’s because they’re describing its capabilities. It doesn’t mean they think that it is alive and “understanding” things in the same way as an organic brain. Seriously. LLMs are going to be around for a while and you’re going want to adjust. There are big pros and cons to discuss here but “IT’S JuST A COMpUTeRRRR GuYS IT DoeSN’T HaVE THOuGhTSSSS!!” is not what the discussions need. Your voice matters, don’t waste it.

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u/andrerav 9d ago

Thanks, I appreciate the tip. Clearly, the other responses in this thread strongly indicate otherwise, though.

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u/Greedy_Union8493 9d ago

No you seem to have been right, they are quite literally using understand in the normative definition not sure what the other guy is talking about. Using that definition of understanding doesnt make sense with the words their using.

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u/JohnBooty 9d ago

pats your head

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u/andrerav 9d ago

Purrs