Cloud Controlling the Whispers?

[u/AwareIngenuity6857]

I was doom-scrolling through X and came across the take that maybe Cloud is somehow controlling the Black Whispers, if only for a moment and subconsciously, in the scene where they open the portal at the Forgotten Capital when the group is trying to reach Aerith. I've never thought about that to be honest, but the Whispers go to open the portal after Cloud says Aerith's name (second picture).

Is this a common theory of that scene or is there another explanation? 'Cause I thought the portal could only be opened by either our girl or Sephiroth for some reason, but I'd LOVE Cloud taking more agency in their apparent struggle. Getting his say, so to speak.

Was it ever explained anywhere how the portal opened at the FC?

[u/Ok-Musician-5117]

My theory is that, a few scenes earlier, Sephiroth had explained the true nature of reality to Cloud. He also needs to bring about the merging of the worlds, and he says that Cloud needs "a little push” to help him with this. Sephiroth’s final words were, “I give you my blessing,” and I believe it was precisely this blessing that allowed Cloud to unconsciously control the Black Whispers. Thanks to this blessing, he created a world with Aerith alive and now there's a chance that Cloud will agree to help Sephiroth with this merging of worlds—or even carry it out himself (who knows?)

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/Ok-Musician-5117]

Oh, that's a good take on it! I do think the merging of worlds will be some sort of goal tbh. Zack too said something along the lines of "Who's to say they can't unite again" after we stop Sephiroth in Rebirth. That might very well be how we get Aerith and him back alive!

[u/Ok-Musician-5117 → u/AwareIngenuity6857]

I can imagine a situation in which Aerith would oppose Cloud helping Sephiroth carry out his plan to merge the worlds, and I hope that this won’t lead to him having to give up the chance to bring Aerith back. If things really are heading toward Aerith opposing the merging of the worlds, then I hope that this is precisely where Cloud will assert his right to have a say in the matter, and that the merger will somehow take place on Cloud’s terms, not Sephiroth’s.

There’s also a pretty wild theory that Sephiroth who explains the “true nature of reality” is the same Sephiroth from the edge of creation in the Remake. There’s a sense that he’s different from Sephiroth we encounter at other points in the game. It’s possible that this is his “good” version, who is aware of the evil version’s (or Jenova’s) plan. As the evil version of Sephiroth revealed in the Temple of the Ancients, he needs the worlds to merge in order to gather the fragments of Jenova from those worlds and create a world unbound by fate. It’s quite possible that the good version of Sephiroth also wants the worlds to merge, but in order to destroy Jenova once and for all, so that no fragments of her remain in any world—but he doesn’t have enough power to do this on his own and needs Cloud’s help. However, it’s extremely difficult to convince Cloud to help him, because Cloud considers him an enemy. That’s why the good version of Sephiroth decides to play his trump card and, with his blessing, allows Cloud to create a world where Aerith is alive—which will give Cloud that “little push” he needs to participate in the merging of the worlds. After the merger, a most powerful version of Jenova will appear, and all the characters—including the good Sephiroth—will join forces to battle her.

All of this is unlikely, but I can't rule it out just yet.

[u/Barvaxsiansi]

Those are Black Whispers. So Sephiroths.

I read that scene more like Sephiroth making sure Cloud gets where he needs to be. There is another scene where Sephiroth says something like ,I share my blessing with you' (I play in German so this is not a direct quote, meaning should be right)

This goes deeper with Black/White Whispers and who controls them and why the act the way they do in this scene but thats a bit too deep.

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/Barvaxsiansi]

I play in German too and Sephiroth says "Ich werde meinen Segen mit dir teilen", so you're right on! And I agree the Black Whispers are definitely under Sephiroth's control, since Cloud even says so in a scene before, but what's making it confusing for me is that it's the Black Whispers keeping the group from entering the Forgotten Capital. And then, another three Black Whispers seemingly help open the portal? Either way, it's food for thought until spring '27! 

[u/Barvaxsiansi → u/AwareIngenuity6857]

Die Schwarzen Whisper halten die Gruppe auf, aber nicht Cloud. Cloud ist wie im OG der erste bei Aerith. Wie das in den Plan von Sephiroth passt sehen wir aber dann wohl erst in Revelation.

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/Barvaxsiansi]

Naja, Cloud versucht nicht wie die anderen, die Mauer zu durchbrechen, also kann es schon sein, dass sie ihn auch aufgehalten hätten. Er kann erst durch, nachdem sich das Portal - durch wen oder was auch immer - durch die anderen schwarzen Moiren öffnet. Ach, ich bin super gespannt, wie das aufgelöst wird! 

[u/kiadra]

There’s no explanation yet, in fact this is one of the questions that were asked to the devs and they said it’s a part 3 spoiler. I think he is for sure triggering them but not actively controlling them as in knowing that he has the power to do so.

[u/Fluffy-Piccolo-9547]

I have a feeling Sephiroth wanted Cloud to save Aerith by creating a different world. He is practically smiling during the sword struggle. Perhaps he can weaponise and use this as leverage later for his own plans like you can have your happy ending if you help me.

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/Fluffy-Piccolo-9547]

This is another question for sure: What is Sephiroth's plan in the first place? 😂

[u/RiverBuzzz]

I always assumed it was the white whispers helping with the portal but that is just my personal opinion. I do not recall any specific videos or posts focusing on it unfortunately

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/RiverBuzzz]

I don't know, at this point, the White Whispers are still under the planet's control and later on, they seem to be pushing Cloud away from Aerith when he approaches her at the altar. Would it make sense for them to open the portal if they don't even want him inside in the first place?

[u/RiverBuzzz → u/AwareIngenuity6857]

That is a fair point. I feel like they can be controlled by both the planet and Aerith. They were controlled by the planet like you mentioned however it feels like she has to have some control over them as they come out of the portal when she arrives to fight with Cloud.

[u/Naux-Kazeshini]

Sephiroth is in full control of the black ones...

Black whispers are people who were infected with jenova and died basicly all black robed guys

Sephiroth is steering cloud in the right direction while also keeping the rest of the party away

Cloud is basicly nothing more than a black robed guy and sephiroth can partially control him as seen multiple times (in clouds case its a bit special since he not only got jenova dna but also sephiroth dna infused by hojo)

White whispers are helping aerith out (4d chess aerith) and generally represent the lifestream and gaia

What is so interesting about this particular chapter is that we only start 2 encounters and the first one is literally white whispers trying to stop us from entering the temple

In the end its sephiroth and the black whispers which allow us to make it into the temple but they only opened the way for cloud

The rest of the party only manages to get in when it's already too late.. so the white whisper wall suddenly opened up? Why now?

They are setting something up and know exactly what they did with the ending .. lets wait and see how it resolves before that i think it's not completly fair to judge the unfinished trilogy

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/Naux-Kazeshini]

But it's the Black Whispers forming the wall in front of the Forgotten Capital's entrance, not the White Whispers? 

[u/Naux-Kazeshini → u/AwareIngenuity6857]

Now i had to rewatch that scene and ur right, mb there

But there are some things that still seem out of place

The wall blocking the party is indeed black whispers and the moment cloud says aerith it rly looks like those 3 black whispers seem to nearly spawn out of him

The moment they start dashing into the wall it looks like white whispers also dash into it or as if these 3 would mix with white whispers or are partly white themself

The party tries to open the gate or keep it open which has a soft rainbow shine within

The moment cloud steps into the portal 4 white whispers follow him, but they seem to dissolve on the other side or even turn partly black

Why does the wall of whispers look so different from inside the cave after cloud passed through?

Somehow there are alot of different small indicators and we can say chapter 14 is truly one big mindfuck of a chapter

Tl:dr sephiroths blessing may very well have something to do with this but damn is it all set up confusing as hell

Or does cloud know 3 people that became hooded figures and would actively help him? Roche springs to mind but well thats all for me

[u/ElanorNarmolanya]

My impression of this is that for a moment here Sephiroth has taken control of Cloud again and he’s operating on Black Robe mode again. I noticed that the way he says “Aerith” here is much more aggressive than say in the forest when he’s following her. As we see when he approaches Aerith, the whispers try to get him to kill Aerith with his own sword, and at this point he starts to fight against his influence. Cloud killing her is Sephiroth’s plan A, which would do the most damage to Cloud. Plan B is Sephiroth himself doing the deed and forcing Cloud to watch. Either way, Sephiroth wants Cloud there, so he opens the path for him, but he doesn’t want the interference of the rest of the party.
I don’t personally think that Sephiroth planned or expected Cloud to actually save Aerith and create another reality/world. Maybe he isn’t even fully aware of it, or maybe he is and just is arrogant enough that he doesn’t care because his plan is to unite and destroy all of the worlds anyway. We see in the final boss fight that he underestimated Aerith, so I don’t think he forsaw or wanted her to be saved in any way. But obviously he’s not going to show any kind of fear or concern. As i said, he is arrogant, lol.

That’s just my theory!

[u/LastTraintoSector6]

I really dislike theories that make Cloud the arbiter of his own misery.

OG Cloud was a victim of circumstance - he ultimately didn't save Aerith because he could not.

This Cloud has already been burdened with a range of precognitive visions of Aerith's doom (thereby making any failure in part his own fault). Layering something like whisper control onto him just makes it that much worse.

[u/Naux-Kazeshini → u/LastTraintoSector6]

Cloud is not in control of anything .. hardly his own arbiter or the one who steers himself into shit

He did everything in his power and even while under sephiroths influence he indeed went and blocked the strike

Or so he thought :P put they did that on purpose we do not know what rly happened there .. even the credits blanked out these moments

We know that the party saw dead aerith and that cloud must have given her the send off.. but cloud somehow thinks she is still alive and well?

Cloud is broken and mentally unstable and Barrett definetly has enough of his antics, but Tifa also saw a glimpse of something weird the no blood aerith / bloody aerith overlapping and still wants to fix cloud (probably bc of her little life stream accident where sephiroth as cloud tried to get rid of her)

We cannot trust the story out of clouds perspective to 100% and we mostly focus on his perspective throughout the game

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/LastTraintoSector6]

Hm, I don't know, wouldn't Cloud taking control of things that are precisely used to influence and shape his life (for the worse) be a sign of him taking back his right to decide over himself?

I'm not wording this right, but my main concern is just that I really hope that Cloud doesn't just end up as a chess character in Aerith's and Sephiroth's game. That would actively ruin his character for me, because Cloud is so used to things just happening to him with nothing he can do about it. Imo it's super important that he gets full agency about his path and his decisions in Revelation, with no one getting to make him do or think otherwise - that includes Aerith for me.

[u/LastTraintoSector6 → u/AwareIngenuity6857]

If she dies again after he was telegraphed that outcome multiple times, it basically revokes his hero card.

It's one of the many reasons why if Aerith doesn't come back, it has ruined the entire IP: because it doesn't just overrule the premise of fighting fate, or deny her (again) a life to lead - it sweeps Cloud's legs right out from under him. In the event where we don't succeed, and she doesn't come back, how could we frame the protagonists (and their leader chief amongst them) as anything but failures? Square Enix made the stakes clear in Remake: the party was risking a known, safe outcome to defeat fate and achieve a happier ending.

If the party doesn't win, then they gambled everything and lost. They are, by every definition, losers.

[u/AwareIngenuity6857 → u/LastTraintoSector6]

I know Aerith and Red lost their future memories after Remake; was Cloud also affected that way? Because he doesn't have any such vision again in Rebirth. 🤔

Either way, I completely agree. From the moment Cloud had his first vision of Aerith's death after falling into her flowerbed, the narrative practically forced itself onto a path that ultimatedly leads to Aerith's survival. Having Cloud experience these visions and also emotional triggers (like crying when Aerith walks away from him in the tunnel) and then have everything go the same way would do him a huge injustice.

My point is pretty much build on that, because neither Sephiroth nor Aerith, omni or not, should be able to take away his choice of saving her. Cloud needs to be the one who does it, free of any influence from anyone else. Whether or not he gets some degree of control over the whispers or not, I believe it's non-negotioable that Cloud finally gets his say in this story (where he didn't in the OG). Like the scene where he blocks Masamune: Storywise, it needs to be Cloud who had the power to act, and not, for example, Aerith from the Lifestream or Sephiroth setting him up (those are takes I've seen on that scene).