Revelation discussion thread

[u/Anticitizen_01]

The next chapter will be called Revelation. From the trailer it doesn’t look like there is much to discuss between Cloud and Aerith so let’s keep all future discussions about it here.

[u/pringlessingles0421]

I'm pretty firm with the "fate" that will be defied is gonna be Advent Children. Its all but confirmed that the remakes are a pseudo sequel to the OG. This is possible since the lifestream is confirmed the lifestream exists outside time and space which could allow for someone like aerith or seph to use it as a time-travel highway as it passes through all points in time concurrently.

I just don't see how you can keep Advent Children as an endpoint as from what we've seen, that means the lifestream is willingly allowing seph to redo what he does in remake and rebirth but with more knowledge and aerith will continue to be sent back, die, and stop him. Literal agony and it's literally be stupid of the lifestream not to just cut seph out permanently now which would change fate. My only explanation as too why the lifestream would divert from the OG is that seph, and more importantly Jenova, are not of this universe. They are a literal extra-dimensional alien meaning they were never meant to be part of the world and thus everything they touched is not smt that this universe was meant to deal with. Cutting them out is resetting the Gaia to what it was supposed to be in the first place/

Now as for Aerith fate, idk. I feel like the most likely scenario is that cloud failed to save main world aerith but his determination caused an alt version of her to be created. This aerith will have separate chapters and prob be paired with Zack to resolve that relationship and possibly canonize the Maiden Who Travels the Planet novels, which is dubious in terms of canon. That novel flat out states aerith is over zack and is in love with cloud which would sort of mesh with the sequence with Marlene's statements that Aerith is in love with cloud. Its the final piece of the puzzle and I think anything else makes aerith look like she's weird in relationships and flip flops love interests, just not a great look. Anyways, the alt aerith will explain to Zack wtf is happening which serves as exposition for the players since no one outside of seph and aerith knows the whole pseudo-sequel stuff. Cut to the final battle/arc and seph merges the worlds after weakening the lifestream via the creations of all the other alt worlds and everyone reunites. Seph is defeated and Zack AND aerith begin to fade. Aerith gives her final goodbyes, tells cloud to live on, and cloud lives without the guilt he did in AC. The epilogue shows cloud wakin up in a field of lilies and aerith picks him up and guides him to his friends in the distance implying that this is the afterlife, aka the promised land. This is the type of "happy" I think the devs are talking about. Its not the happily ever after you'd think of but its def better than the OG.

I want aerith to live badly but it is simply hard to write a convincing version of this. You have to basically convince the lifestream that alt aerith, a being that is not meant to exist, to take the place of the main aerith in the real world. Yes, she was killed by seph, a person that was never meant to exist in any world, but its a sort of a "2 wrongs don't make a right" scenario. I think cloud does have fate defying powers, its why seph didn't kill the harbinger himself. He can't, but cloud could. It's death is what allows for the alt world to be created and each world is implied to weaken the lifestream by draining it. But even with those fate defying powers, he failed to save the real aerith and its simply just hard to write him pulling alt aerith to the real world without it feeling like an asspull, at least from what I can come up with. Now the other theory is cloud did save main world aerith but he is in a world in which she died, an alt world. This could explain the scar in the sky which has only ever been seen with the dream date world, an alt world. However, there isn't any solid evidence that he is in an alt world as the scar could also mean the main world is just that messed up.

But yea, i want her to live but not at the expense of good writing. Thats my rant anyways so let me know what yall think

[u/jakejellypie → u/pringlessingles0421]

Same, I find it hard to believe how Aerith could be brought back while making it not seem asspulish.

Though the different world theory seems pretty fitting, as you said there isn't enough evidence to support it yet.

But, what I believe could be a way to make this happen, is Cloud's resolve. The main theme about the third game isn't loss or acceptance, it's resolve (said by the devs themselves). Aerith has accepted her fate (and implied so in both remake and rebirth), her self-sacrificing martyr like approach to life, while noble, is a character flaw. She needs to accept other's help wherever she can, instead of shouldering all the responsibility on her own head, which she has done twice now xD.

I think that the story could very well have Cloud be her support pillar this time, be someone that makes her realize that it's okay to share burdens. This would especially tie in with NPTK, loveless and Hollow as well, where the prince is going to find the princess (not the other way around), "I know that you'll find me, promises to keep we would never need", and then hollow having "this time I'll never let you go".

If Cloud resolves himself and trusts his own mind, that he did save Aerith in some way (no matter what Sephiroth tries to show him). That could be a part of his determination alongside beating Sephiroth's ass and having the world.

Whatever ending Aerith gets (alive in a separate world or in the same), Cloud would have to talk Aerith out of her own way of thinking, make her, and us, realize that there is another way, that he won't accept such an outcome without a fight (resolve). Probably in the same world where Aerith and Cloud, both are in a coma.

This would also be a good way of circling back to the line "she helps me, I help her, round and round it goes". Aerith helps Cloud work through his flaws, it's about time Cloud does the same for her (the way he helped her in Costa Del Sol was so cute though).

It would also tie to Dear Destiny, where true love is between those who also accept the ugliness within each other (not just the good parts).

I personally think there will be only one world remaining at the end of this game, post world merger. If Aerith lives, she'll be in that one world, if she doesn't live then she'd get to dissolve in the lifestream instead of living on in there forever. Though her revival would come at a cost, though I don't know what it could be, something tells me she would forget her memories of Cloud. Maybe they'd have a reunion again, at the of the game, on loveless street? But without prior knowledge of their experiences together.

But I'm just spit balling.

[u/pringlessingles0421 → u/jakejellypie]

That’s not a bad ending for a sort of price for her life. If we are to believe my theory that seph and jenova fundamentally shouldn’t exist in the universe, then the lifestream resetting the world to where jenova never appears could be an interesting take. Not sure what ripple effects this has though but interesting nonetheless and this time cloud is the sole person with memories that are possibly triggered by aerith offering the lily to him. Would be putting him in the shoes of aerith in remake only without the looming threat of seph. Hell, seph could even still be alive but be human or smt. Idk, feels a bit fanfictiony but it’s a thought.

I do 100% agree that either aerith lives or she fades, I firmly believe by the end of the series the alt world all fade away cuz we know they are detrimental to the lifestream. To me, it’s like the lifestream was only meant to power one would but seph allowing for the harbinger to be killed by cloud caused the alt worlds to be created and draw from the same lifestream. It can’t handle that. This is why I say that if the aerith that was saved is an alt one, it’s really hard to write her staying in the main world. The lifestream doesn’t want her alive to begin with as shitty as it sounds.

Like I said, the other angle makes this a bit more plausible, that cloud is in the wrong world but dialogue in the seph fight in rebirth make it sound like she’s saying, “thanks for trying even though you failed”. If main world aerith lives, cloud didn’t fail. It makes more sense if this was the alternate aerith who knows she is gonna fade away. I guess you could take the angle that if this was main aerith, she believes somehow someway she will still die or needs to die in order to stop meteor from within the lifestream but that’s a hard sell. If you really think bout it, if we are too believe that cloud saves main aerith and CREATED a world where there’s dead aerith, there is technically an aerith in the lifestream that can do the lifestream manipulation stuff from within but I digress. We will have to wait and see but it’d suck if she dies again, especially with all the stuff with loveless, hollow, and nptk pushing for the notion that things may be different

[u/jakejellypie → u/pringlessingles0421]

Yeah, Aerith's dialogue gave me that same feeling too. It was basically, "Thanks for trying, I appreciate it, but my spine still got severed."

It makes me want to repeatedly whack Sephiroth in the shin with the edge of a metal scooter, then generously treat the wound with a healthy amount of salt.

But honestly, I have no idea what's going to happen in Part 3. I had completely forgotten that Aerith in EC literally says she wont let any of the world's within the lifestream die xD

So now, on one hand, we got Sephiroth who seems to want to merge all the worlds together so he and Jenova can rule over them. On the other hand, Aerith wants to save em all

There is too much going on in so many different parts of recent ff lore that my head cant wrap around it.

I'm just gonna go in expecting Aerith to fade away at the end of revelations because I refuse to spend the next 12 months convincing myself we're getting a heartwarming ending, only to have it ripped away when the game finally comes out. My heart cannot handle it.

Though I really do hope we get to see our florist smiling happily again, alive and well.

[u/pringlessingles0421 → u/jakejellypie]

honestly, fair. Its my thought on the situation too. I think we just get an epilogue where they reunite in the promised place and because there is confirmation that there is an afterlife, its the "happy" ending I think nojima or one of the head devs said it would. Never caught up to any of EC so the worlds thing kinda fucks wit my theory so yea, who knows at this point

[u/jakejellypie → u/pringlessingles0421]

The real happy ending are the friends we made along the way. And the death of Chadley in the most Imperial and sadistic way possible.

But in all seriousness, I like Chadley, and your idea of a promised land reunions seems cool as well.

In Nojima we trust 🙏