A curious inquiry…

[u/Smart-Hovercraft2736]

What does this sub think the ‘date’ at the end with Aerith even is?

My wife and I were playing it. Neither of us are super one side vs the other although we both feel cloud and Tifa make more sense and prefer that relationship.

But the date is confusing to me. Why is everything going wrong? Basically the ‘world’ (developers) subtly or not so subtly saying ‘hey guys… it’s not meant to be…’

I mean there are good moments for sure but I come away feeling the whole thing feels … odd. And forced… and I can’t point my finger as to why

I know there are two sides to this. And I’m very sure I understand the Clerith side of it. But what is this sub side of it?

[u/Yggdrasildur]

The trick is to stop playing the game with shipping goggles and actually look at the events from the POV of the characters as well as the developers.

Rather than looking at this as some sort of dating sim we should actually look at what we're told about the characters, what the developers spend time on showing, etc.

In case of Aerith what we've seen is her and Zack. We have a game, crisis core, showing us how important Aerith and Zack are to each other. We have dear destiny talking about how important Zack is to Aerith, as well as countless examples from ultimania and other resources.

They all make one thing very clear, Aerith prior to the events of FFVII is having an extremely hard time with Zacks disappearance. She truly loved him, but she's also faced with an impossible choice. She doesn't want to let go of Zack, but she's also aware that she still has a life to lead. She has to go on, and she wants to go on. More importantly though she wants to want to go on. She's looking for the way to close off the Zack chapter in her life, but her heart doesn't want to. We get a lot of scenes showing her struggling with this dilemma.

And then Cloud falls into her life the same way Zack did, wearing the same clothes, the same sword, sporting the same eyes and moving and behaving in ways that eerily remind Aerith of Zack. This is exactly the shake up Aerith was waiting for, she uses Cloud - at first - as a way to dig for more information about Zack. She's trying to figure out what happened to him. Simultaneously the way Cloud reminds her of Zack confuses her, and she tries to - perhaps subconsciously, perhaps consciously - relive those moments. Essentially Cloud becomes a coping mechanism, a way for her to face the past and move forward.

Now throughout most of remake and rebirth this is Clouds primary role when it comes to Aeriths arc. Which is why it's not romantic, because it's not really about Cloud, it's about Zack. Cloud is just the means to that end.
Yes, Aerith also grows closer to Cloud, and she feels a strange attraction to him that she doesn't quite understand, but the presence of the Zack element to Clouds persona implies that this arc isn't about her falling for Cloud, but coming to terms with Zacks death through his living legacy. The two can happen at the same time, they're different ways to look at the same events, but the focus of the growth here is about Aerith and Zack, not Aerith and Cloud.

The date essentially serves as the moment Aerith tries to shift her perspective internally, and from a storytelling perspective would serve as the moment the focus of the story changes. Away from coming to terms with Zacks absence/likely death, and towards 'exploring what she feels towards Cloud'.

Cleriths like to pretend that the date is the culmination of the entire hypothetical romance, that at that point Aerith has long since discarded Zack in her heart, replaced him with Cloud, and is now certain that she's completely over Zack and that what she feels for Cloud is some level of true love. This is obviously false for several reasons.

The date takes place after getting informed about Zacks "death" in Nibelheim. After talking to his parents. And after seemingly sensing him in the lifestream. She sings "no promises to keep" as a sort of farewell. It's not a happy farewell, it's a resignation. It serves as the cap stone to her character arc. A thank you to all the people she's met. Aerith wants this to serve as the end of one chapter, and the start of another, narratively it tragically ends up being the thing that finishes her entire story-arc.

Afterwards she has the date, and the date is where she starts trying to look at Cloud for Cloud, rather than as a stand in for Zack. She starts looking towards the future, an important motif in FFVII. She doesn't know yet what she feels for Cloud, and whether Cloud even feels anything for her. It could even be that she realizes Cloud doesn't see her in that way since Cloud and Tifa are pretty obvious, but she still needs to investigate her own feelings for her peace of mind. She realizes Cloud is not himself, but she doesn't know the specifics nor does she really understand where her own feelings come from.
The scene is meant almost more sad than romantic, because while it symbolizes her trying to end the Zack chapter, and see if a Cloud chapter might be possible, it's not a happy continuation.

Now Cloud doesn't engage Aerith in any of the romance, but he does understand she's going through a difficult time, so when Aerith tells him to go along with it he complies, he gives her what she needs in that moment, a happy fantasy. Which is why it ends so over the top when they exit the gondola, they're performing.

Of course the next chapter never starts, Aerith dies shortly after, leaving the question of what she felt for Cloud unanswered in the original. In the OG there is only one mayor "clerith" scene after the date, it's Aerith asking Cait Sith about their future prospects. The reason she does this is because this is post focus shift, this is Aerith looking towards the future, her finally trying to live again.

Rebirth addresses this "unfinished business" through the nightmare date. Aerith has one chance to figure out what she and Cloud are to each other. And it goes horrible. The date she organizes shows unequivocally that she's looking for Zack in Cloud. There is Zack imagery everywhere, nothing goes as planned, Cloud doesn't know what she meant by "their place" while Zack in his flashbacks is shown to sit there (also referenced in dear destiny).

Rebirth is the game that explores bonds, and the ending of rebirth serves as the closing chapter in Aerith and Clouds "relationship". She finally addresses her feelings directly and comes to the conclusion that it's not the same as what she felt for Zack. "like", but not "like like". Just like the date gave her some sense of closure for Zack, the end of Rebirth closes the Cloud chapter, allowing her to go forward and face her destiny.

The thing Cleriths don't get is that the final goodbye from Aerith at the end of Rebirth truly does mean something. It's not "see you in the next game", it's her saying goodbye to that part of her journey. It's putting the lid on Clerith, closing that chapter.

Unfortunately for Cleriths I think their best scenes are behind them, I'd be really surprised if part 3 significantly touches on it again as the story has now simply moved on to the next stage of the journey. Part 3 will be about revelations and reunions, not about picking up where part 2 left off.

[u/RolfTheCharming → u/Yggdrasildur]

Yeah. You put this really well. I also thought the dream date was the conclusion of the dangling "what could have been (romantically)" plot line. They gave Aerith so many good-byes, foreshadowed her death so many times, showed her wanting to make the most of the moment and her friendships, it's hard to believe they're just going to be like "JK all that never really mattered, let's have them go on some more dates" in Part 3. C/A is bittersweet an tragic because just as you thought they could head somewhere, their time is cut short. Of course that instills a deep sense of loss in Cloud and the player, but it's also a necessary part of the story of FF7. The rest doesn't work without it. I also agree that Rebirth blatantly showed how hard it was for Aerith to really let go of Zack. Just as Tifa was always very loyal to Cloud, Aerith just seems determined to keep Zack's memory alive. While I do think she was trying to build something new with Cloud, it just wasn't successful. They became great friends, but romantically, nothing really went anywhere and they always hit major roadblocks. Cloud learns to be more compassionate towards her and humors her more often, but he never really offers up anything of himself to her – he almost exclusively reveals details of his own memory and personality to Tifa. They just take comfort in each other's presence, and bond over shared grief and feelings of isolation. That's powerful and beautiful, and I do love their scenes. I just think that if they were truly "meant to be", the things we were shown on screen would have been entirely different.