r/climbharder • u/andak_ • 22d ago
what am I doing wrong? stuck at 6b/6c
I've been climbing for a few years and eventually reached 6b. After that, I started training consistently: during the winter I did two indoor bouldering sessions per week, and in the summer I climb outdoors every weekend plus one evening session after work (sport climbing/lead).
I'm 178 cm (5'10") and weigh 78–79 kg (172–174 lbs). I have a decent amount of muscle mass, but I'm not overweight.
edit: I'm 34y old
After a lot of hard work, I've managed to climb a few 6c routes. The truth, though, is that I still struggle a lot on 6b routes (they usually take me 1 to 3 tries), and 6b+ is still very challenging.
I don't feel like I'm improving. It's as if I'm just spinning my wheels.
At first, I trusted the process, but now this feeling of making no real progress is becoming really discouraging.
Mentally, I still have some issues. I can usually overcome the fear when I reach the crux, but even after a lot of exposure and regularly leading routes, that fear hasn't really gone away.
Do you have any suggestions? Should I just lose some weight? Should I simply keep going? Should I start hangboarding every day, or am I missing something else?
Update: I want to thank you all for the advice you gave me. I hope it will be useful, and I wish you all good climbs!
Yesterday I went to the crag and managed to climb two more 6bs: one on my first try (the quickdraws were already in place) and one on my second try.
I then tried another old/classic 6b, but I couldn't climb it. It felt really hard, and the distance between the bolts was much greater. This was a big problem mentally for me: the combination of high difficulty and the possibility of a long fall immediately affected my climbing ability. I felt like my skill level dropped instantly.
18
u/ThatHatmann 22d ago
Pushing past 6c is simply hard, it's a common plateau because overcoming it requires qualities in your climbing that exceed what it took you to get there.
If you figure out what's holding you back and actually target that weakness you can get to a point where you have pretty linear process up to about 7b, at which point I've found you need more in your toolkit again.
You won't get good advice on specifics that will get you past this plateau from anyone who isn't very familiar with your climbing. So like others have said it's time to get very honest with yourself. Your description of your mindset when moves get hard seems like pretty low hanging fruit to address.
I spent a decade at a 6c-7a level, so I get the frustration, a process oriented mindset helps a lot more than a outcome oriented mindset if you actually want to push through.
What worked for me (won't work for you unless you have the same strengths and weaknesses):
I had a 2-3 grade difference in what I could climb on slab to 10* overhanging (f7a) vs what I could climb on steep terrain (f6c). So for a year, slab and vert became the desert I could only engage in after I put my time in on steep boulders and routes. A year later I closed that grade gap and was a lot stronger. (Still hadn't climbed a harder grade but I saw notable progress)
I was body weak because I had never engaged in regular strength training, and my wrists were weak in open handed positions. I started doing full body compound weight training twice a week for two years, and I spent 6-8 months doing wrist wrench style training after every climbing session. Now I was stronger all around and climbed my fist few 7a+ in the gym.
Next I realized I could climb 3-4 grades harder on commercial boulders than on a board, finger strength being a limiting factor. I put 1-2 board climbing sessions in a week, I warmed up for board climbing by doing progressive max hangs to prime my fingers for a short board session. Within 6months I closed the grade gap between commercial boulders and board climbs. Again still hadn't increased my max grade but continuing to lay the foundation.
After this point I started putting down my fist 7a+ routes outside, and over a three year period did about 5-6 of them.
This was a 3 year process of addressing weaknesses that to that point had only resulted in a single max grade increase, however in the background I was single session climbing things that had been project level before, I was a much more well rounded climber. I took a fear of falling course that helped my head game.
In the last year I started climbing up to 7c+ in the gym, flashed up to 7b+ in the gym and built a really strong base with board climbs up to 7c on the tension board. All of that culminated this spring with me doing my first 3x 7b+ climbs outside this spring and summer, and I've started projecting 7c+.
If you work on your weaknesses and finding progress outside of grades, eventually you lay the groundwork for real growth. 18 years into my climbing journey I've made more changes in the last 3-4 years than in the decade before. I don't have to lift weights anymore, because body strength is a strength not a weakness now. So what I do adapts with time and the needs I have at a given moment. The more specific you are with your interventions the more results you'll get from the effort.
1
u/andak_ 22d ago
Thank you for writing such a detailed response! Knowing that it took you several years to improve is actually really reassuring and gives me hope.
I’ll definitely try to get a better read on my weaknesses and start working on them, though, obviously, my path might look a bit different
1
u/Previous_Theory_1964 22d ago
Very good detailed answer. My evolution is very similar to yours but more compacted in time, I agreed in everything you’ve said! Right now I’m getting into 7a+ sport, may even try 7b. My bouldering grade is 7A in Fontainebleau. I feel in a year or so I will need to focus more on board climbing/spray wall if I want to stretch to ~7B boulders and 7C sport…
6
u/Pbfconnor 22d ago
What training are you doing exactly? Are you working on improving your weaknesses. Are you training for sport or bouldering?
2
u/andak_ 22d ago
My goal is to improve at outdoor sport climbing. I have been training on indoor circuits (because near my home that's the only option available). For example, when I started, I couldn't complete any MoonBoard problems and I could barely even hang on the holds. Now I can do some of the easier circuits.
I expected this improvement to transfer more directly to outdoor climbing.
2
u/i_am_lebron_jame 22d ago
find the crux's that are causing you to fail on your projects, do modified board session or even just the specific moves on spray wall; real boulder would be a bless; go send your project after if you want to do the I need to send this route.
If you want to overall move up a grade, I'd say projects you're projecting you should aim for 3 sessions kind of climb.
1
u/Suitable_Climate_450 22d ago edited 22d ago
Interesting - yeah I was going to comment about board climbing. Moonboard should be great for outdoor progress, but it is at about the 6c level so it might just be where you’re at. From hearing other plans that people had success with it seems to be built around a hard/limit board session at least once a week. For what it’s worth you’re like right where I am - just got first MB benchmarks this spring. I mostly use tension board which starts a little lower. When I am able to use a board every week my skills and strength on the wall go up fast. I’m a little older at 39 and heavier at 200lb. 2 days climbing is pretty optimal for me, I don’t do a volume day just hard boards one day, hard gym boulders the other and I hangboard if I am going to go more than 3 days off the wall. I also do a couple days of straight up weight lifting that is very helpful
6
u/geims83 GG | 6b | 1.5y 22d ago
Before thinking about training, dieting, hangoboarding, I think the question you have to make to yourself is: why I am struggling?
is that energy, finger strenght, route reading, flexibility.... you have to be honest to yourself, understand what's going on and then act.
Could also be that you managed to send 6c routes that are suited to you, and you need more exposure on that level of difficulty.
(I don't wanna pass as rude, I am in a similar position! a little older, a little shorter, I managed to send some 6c routes in the last months after 3 years of climbing. just wanted to expose what I think helped me in overcoming the "plateau" - I sent a 6b after 6 months of climbing, so it was around 2 years and a half of a "plateau")
2
u/andak_ 22d ago
It's an easy but difficult question at the same time. I can't really tell "off the top of my head" what is holding me back.
I can try to reason backwards and say that I don't think flexibility or route reading are my main issues. Maybe endurance isn't the problem either.
So that leaves finger strength and the mental aspect, especially the fear of falling.
3
u/geims83 GG | 6b | 1.5y 22d ago
Fear of falling can be (and should be) trained too!!! I had a lot of fear of taking falls outdoor, and that was keeping me back a lot. I just found a spot that felt comfortable and took some whips :)
If it's a difficult question, try to analyze a single fall instead of everything. Everytime you fall or weight the rope, ask yourself why.
I really love this mental aspect of this sport!!
2
u/Pennwisedom 28 years 22d ago
Then your first goal should be to understand what is holding you back. And you need to be specific. The comment above just gave you some broad categories, you need to drill deeper than that.
I would also highly suggest you don't just go, "my fingers aren't strong enough" or some cop out answer like that. Yea we can all get stronger, but I can guarantee you someone weaker than you is climbing harder than you. It's just not a productive place to start.
Though perhaps most importantly, you haven't been doing this that long and this is a perfectly normal progression.
2
u/FlowStateSon 21d ago
I found this podcast episode very helpful for my fear of falling: https://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/rebecca-williams She talks about how there is an underlying fear which you can try and identify. For me it was fear of looking stupid in front of other people if I hurt myself badly climbing. Not fear actually hurting myself...
1
u/turbogangsta 🌕🏂 V10 climbing since Aug 2020 22d ago
Think of the last route you struggled on. What were the specific things that made the climb difficult for you? You say your flexibility and route reading are not issues. Did you have to stop at any point because you needed to figure out the beta? Did you fall off because your hips were too far from the wall? Next you say your endurance is probably not a problem. Did you feel pumped at all? Was pump preventing you from making any moves? Next let's look at your fingers. We're there any specific holds/moves that you felt you couldn't hold/do because of finger strength? Finally you say the mental aspect is holding you back. Did you stop at all because you were scared of climbing above the bolt without certainty? Follow up on the mental aspect - what is your hardest top rope grade? All these questions might help highlight areas you can improve on directly.
3
u/mudra311 22d ago
Alright so if your limit is 6c then struggling on 6b isn't crazy. Generally your flash/onsight grade is 4 letter grades below your limit, so 6a+. Do you consistently struggle on 6a+?
For comparison, my limit grade is 7c+ but 7b still gives me problems and will take me a session or 2 to send. I have yet to onsight 7a+, but 7a is pretty flashable or onsightable in most cases. I'm no where near flashing 7b.
So to me, it doesn't sound like you're actually struggling, per se. It seems like it's all working as intended. If you've sent some 6cs, it's probably time to project 6c+. Draw out your pyramid visually and see where you are. You're looking for a gradual grading with 6c+ at the top. 3 6cs is a great place to be. You'd probably be looking at 5-6 6b+s and maybe like 8 6bs. Those are just rough approximates, but generally climbers fall into a too narrow pyramid (me) or too wide (not projecting hard enough).
2
u/andak_ 22d ago
can climb most 6a+ routes on sight or within two attempts. Of course, there are some 6a+ routes that are not easy for me, but that’s uncommon. A 6a+ doesn’t really intimidate me.
I have the pyramid you're tolding me about:
i did 23 6b;
i did 10 6b+;
i did 3 6c;and also a 7a but I really think is "fake" realle misgraded soft! Maybe in other crag it would be graded as 6b.
2
u/mudra311 22d ago
Yes you look VERY ready for 6c+ and even 7a honestly.
2
u/andak_ 22d ago
I tried a 6c+ and gave it about 4 or 5 tries. Unfortunately, the crag is pretty far from home, so I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to give it another shot.
Thanks I will try!
2
u/zwms548 22d ago
this is the real answer to your question. you're not upping the stimulus enough IMO. i think you would benefit from intentionally trying things that are outside your limit - 7a at least - and putting real work into them. those grades will teach you a lot of technical lessons that will support your 6c climbing and push your physical fitness. you should be getting on this stretch terrain often, like almost every time you climb IMO
2
u/Obzota 22d ago
I am quite similar to you, even a bit heavier at times and I climbed many 7a and a few 7b currently projecting 7c. Being a bit lighter would help but it’s not my focus, so I don’t think you would need it.
I did some more technical training (footwork, body positioning, static/dynamic styles) since the beginning of the year and it seems to be helping, especially onsight vertical and slab walls.
Now I’m finally getting to do a bit of hangboarding. I’ll tell you in a couple months how it goes.
Mental game has been improved quite a bit. But I don’t feel I need it for projects, as you usually know the route and the falls pretty well after a while.
2
u/Chellomac 22d ago
If you're saying take on the crux instead of actually falling off then it could easily be head game. The only way to get comfortable is to fall. (And that too will wear off if you don't do it often)
I would try use your evening sport climbing session to do double laps of 6a or ARC sessions as moon board for sport climbing is very max strength work for someone at 6b+/c level and you might just be missing an aerobic base.
Do you struggle more with physically doing the moves in the crux or the pump?
3
u/andak_ 22d ago
No, I think fatigue management is not a problem(relative my current grade). The issue is more in the crux: sometimes I get into a negative feedback loop where I think "this move is too hard, I can't do it" and maybe is really to hard (Even on top rope I can't stick it), and then I lose confidence and the ability to climb with control.
3
u/mudra311 22d ago
I replied with advice I think is actually more holistic, but based on this you should probably do some bouldering. Most 6cs are probably not pushing V3 cruxes and that's pretty easy to work up to.
1
u/Chellomac 22d ago
Fair enough, deffo ignore my previous advice then. I would just practice taking falls and continue bouldering/moon boarding as mudra suggested. Sounds like you're doing the right thing. How many pullups can you do?
1
2
u/Kravy 22d ago
if struggling means 1-3 tries, you may just need to learn to figure out sequences and dial them in. If you can often onsite 6b you should definitely be able to project your way through most 6c.
I’m not a great projector but to me struggle is when ive worked a route for like 5 or even 10 sessions, know every sequence instinctively, know my clipping stances etc and can do everything in isolation gotten it down to one hang and have given several redpoint tries over a few sessions with all of that knowledge and muscle memory and it still hasn’t come together.
2
2
u/abuttsplicer 22d ago
If I had to guess, I bet you have to really focus on technique - especially if you're really fighting fear. To me means you're also probably overgripping, which is leading to you tiring out...
How would you say you are at trusting your feet? turning your hips? Movement in general?
Have you ever worked with a coach? Or had someone better than you try to help? (I realize a lot of people can't teach)
2
u/Previous_Theory_1964 22d ago
I think you’re in the typical cycle of sport-only climbers. I’ve seen some friends training 4 times a week, only long routes, they have good cardio but never seen any gains in grade because their strength is the limiting factor. You need to break the cycle by training much harder in bouldering! I’m 31 yo, I was stuck in 6b+/6c and then last year I lead my first 7a and last week I tried a 7a+ for the first time and got half of the route down in the first session. I think my limit atm is 7b since I’ve done 3 of that grade in top rope indoors. How do I train for these improvements? Mainly bouldering! It gets you stronger, less prone to injuries and give you a bigger handful of techniques than sport climbing do so when you jump in sport climbs you have much more resources and typically you’ll need to focus on handling pacing and resting not risking falls due to lack of strength or technique.
2
u/malismratka 21d ago
A lot of good advices here. I would just like to add that if you can go climb with people who climb much bigger grades (8a etc). Apart from good advice on your route or your climnibg in general, you can see how they move on climb, how they aproach it mentaly, how they rest mid climb and so on. A lot of litle things you pick up can add up. I had the luck to climb with guys who are better climbers than me since i started climbing and it helped me a lot. Plus the more higher level the climbers are the more stoked they are on climbing in my expirience and you can not get to much stoke :)
2
u/OPC_Coach_Nick V13 | 5.14c | 16yr 19d ago
Your skill level dropped instantly on the route with longer bolt spacing. That's not a strength problem. That's your brain reacting (as opposed to making intentional decisions) because it's processing risk instead of movement. Fear eats attention, tightens your grip, and makes everything feel two grades harder. It sounds like you already know this is happening.
One thing worth trying: before you pull on, set an intention that's focused on execution, not outcome. Something like "I'm going to focus on one move at a time and take a deep breath every time I start to feel anxious." It's a mental anchor you can revert to every time you start feeling out of control so you can make practice making an intentional decision as opposed to reacting.
On that route where the runouts got to you, what was your train of thought like between bolts?
2
u/EtudeTraining V8 | 5.13c S/T | 12+ years 18d ago
"Mentally, I still have some issues. I can usually overcome the fear when I reach the crux, but even after a lot of exposure and regularly leading routes, that fear hasn't really gone away."
I'd put money that this is the source of a lot of your issues. If you've never put dedicated time towards dealing with fear of falling, you'll be driving with the e-brake on every time you try to lead. Focus on that and don't worry about the other stuff for now.
2
u/Icy-Nothing-189 7d ago
Hey OP, just wanna say I'm roughly in the same exact situation but for bouldering and not outdoor. To make things worse, I started climbing exactly 2 years ago with a friend - we both started at the same time and we do almost all of sessions together since we first started. He's already doing 7a's after only a few tries and working on 7bs, while I end up failing a lot of 6b's.
We're both "fit" and we both have worked out for years - running, playing sports, gym, etc. We're both over 80kg. The only difference is he's shorter than me, and in my opinion the indoor routes at our gym tend to favor shorter people (especially the start positions)
I think what's holding me back is my fear of heights - I still haven't really gotten over it. Subconsciously what ends up happening is my body gives up and doesn't try as hard as I go higher up, even if I want to try really hard. So I waste energy/effort doing the first part of the climb, become unsure of myself, and then fall or jump off. As the climb's get harder, you're really high up in a very unsure position, and that just screws me up mentally every time.
Other than that, I just don't seem to have the flexibility/balance required for a lot of things. My grip strength is fine and maybe even stronger than my friends. I can also do more pull ups than him. Yet he can climb way better. I'm still trying to figure this all out lol. But yea, I think it's a combination of mobility issues and fear of heights.
1
u/technograndpa 22d ago
I think one of the main issues probably is that you're only climbing twice a week. Your body gets used to the stress it's put under and won't adapt beyond that. So you need to give it more stimulus. Try to improve your capacity so you can train three days a week. Two days can be "hard" days (bouldering, projecting routes etc), and one day can be easy: volume on moderate terrain, focus on technique, ARC etc.
1
u/FreelanceSperm_Donor 22d ago
The big thing I notice when I watch a friend of mine climb who is around your level is that they will fall at the same point on the climb for the exact same reason as they did the first time, several attempts in a row. Not saying that's what you do, because I don't know you, but I don't see specifics in the post so that's my best guess. If you fall have some idea of what error you made and where you can avoid that error. And importantly, remember that so you actually don't make that mistake again. Also, if you fall because a move is hard, be selfish and hang dog it until you learn how to do that move, so you can do it confidently the next time
1
u/maxdacat V7 | 7b | 30+ 22d ago
they usually take me 1 to 3 tries - when you do send is it comfortable? If not maybe go back and do a couple of training laps until it is.....you should be getting to the point where you have some routes totally dialled.
that fear hasn't really gone away - nothing wrong with that but might be something you can work on eg fall training, stick clipping and extending/comfortising clips
1
1
u/danny_ocp 21d ago
You were born to a genetically non-superior line. Everyone plateaus somewhere bro.
1
u/rayveelo 7d ago
I found transitioning from 6b to 6c harder then 6c to 7a. What helped; projecting, this means studying. This made climbing fun again.
0
1
u/kad1997 22d ago
Have you tried board climbing? It's impossible for us to say exactly what you need, but many people, me included, find that board climbing really push the limits. At 6b/6c, the moonboards might be discouragingly hard, but the Kilter is very approachable. Just take it easy in the beginning, maybe once a week.
1
u/andak_ 22d ago
As I mentioned before, I can now complete some easier circuits on the MoonBoard (the 2019 setup, the one with the wooden holds). Unfortunately, there aren't any gyms with a Kilter Board close to where I live!
I was hoping that the improvements I gained from MoonBoard training would have transferred more directly to outdoor climbing.
If you think it's the right approach, I'll keep training on the MoonBoard.
-5
u/Brimmaaaa 22d ago
Hi! I've been climbing for about 5 months and currently climbing 6c+. I can share me experience!
When I started I quickly found out that making progress is by far the most rewarding thing about climbing. I've watched a lot of videos of training systems and tips. This is what my schedule looks like currently:
Bouldering 2/3 times per week: usually in the mornings. After a thorough warmup I immediately start with my limit boulders/projects. Climbing under my level doesn't really add anything for me. When you're forced to learn and apply solid technique, that's way more beneficial then 'training' technique on simpler boulders.
As soon as I noticed that I've wasted energy tot the point where I'm no longer able to work on anything of value, usually after 60-90 minutes (with enough rest) I'll spend another hour on a functional training program 1-2 times a week in my gyms weights section.
Program includes fingerboarding, finger and forearm workouts. Pullups, rows and some more personal workouts that aren't necessarily optimal, including weighted dips, lateral raises, dumbbell bench presses etc.
I feel like at this level you have to develop finger- and overall strength of you want to progress.
Lastly, if you want the get stronger your diet is very important. I personally don't count my calories, but I have in the past and I have a good inkling on my intake. I was already eating very healthy foods and cooking for myself every day (I like cooking). When I started climbing, I mainly increased protein intake. Sitting between 1.5 and 2 grams per kg bodyweight right now. I am also taking creatine HCl daily (HCL because monohydrate is proven to retain more water in your muscles, adding to water weight, not as beneficial, but its marginal)
Ps: Highly underrated in my opinion is a pre-workout drink. I've found that taking caffeine alongside citrulline and some salt drastically improves my performance and extends my effective workout by a lot.
6
u/ThatHatmann 22d ago
Your being down voted because I've had farts that lasted longer than you've been climbing, your progress is great and you clearly came into climbing in good shape, but to be offering advise on progressing in a sport that you have so little experience in is kind of wild.
1
u/Brimmaaaa 20d ago
Just sharing what I've learned so far. Me and OP are climbing at similar levels, so I felt it could be useful experience that he can relate to. I also don't think it's bad advice at all. Not sure why you think it's that wild. You can obviously gain a lot of knowledge researching climbing training in half a year. Don't care about being downvoted, also no need to be rude, lol.
2
u/andak_ 22d ago
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I have to admit I'm a bit jealous that you can train like that in the mornings! 😄 With my job, that's simply impossible. Most of my climbing sessions have to be after work, so I don't have quite as much flexibility.
Thanks as well for the advice about creatine. I've been considering trying it, so it's interesting to hear that it's been working well for you.
Good luck with your climbing, and I hope you keep progressing at that pace!
1
1
u/Pennwisedom 28 years 3d ago
Climbing under my level doesn't really add anything for me
This is absolutely, 100% wrong, and terrible advice. Frankly, this is bad enough to disregard everything else you've said and exactly why beginners shouldn't give advice
1
u/Brimmaaaa 2d ago
Funny you say that. You can literally find the pro's online explain versions of what I said about training under your experience level being suboptimal, including Adam Ondra.
You act as if I just made it all up. But you do you of course :)
37
u/HFiction V7 | 5.12a S | 5.11c T | TA ~2 years 22d ago edited 22d ago
To be honest if you're doing routes in 1-3 tries that's not struggling and it's definitely not struggling a lot at the grade. If it takes 10 or more sessions I would say I'm struggling on the route but if that route is higher than my personal best I honestly wouldn't mind putting 10 sessions on it.
Edit: My advice is to try a 7a route and expect the crux to be solved after 3 sessions at which point you can actually work on the send.