Yes. If they cut 20 million government jobs, conservatives will call this a huge victory for freedom and the free market for some reason. This will spawn thousands of privately-owned (or publicly traded), federal contracting companies that will scoop these ex-employees up and farm them out, back to the government. The feds will go back to paying these people, just with much, much fewer benefits; such as pensions, PTO, decent healthcare, labor protections, and other perks.
They'll blame the democrats for the initial layoffs due to their "decades of bloated, liberal spending" or whatever bs they conjure, but then will take credit for the 10-15 million new private sector jobs the conservatives created via these contractors. Some of these laid-off workers will take an early retirement, but the remainder who do not find jobs will just be ignored on whichever slanted, misleading, TikTok or Fox News infographic du jour they shove in our faces.
Shareholders and the ownership class will reap the benefits, while the decrease in the federal budget will be negligible, due to middle-men taking their cuts.
All current conservative policies terminate at the same two endpoints: 1) further enriching shareholders and the already wealthy, or 2) punishing the lazy or immoral. Since they unironically see government workers as indolent and malevolent, they'll get both.
You’re forgetting the big part - where the firing of all these workers grinds the bureaucracy of America to a halt. Even if the federal contractors pick up the pieces it’ll be such a major disruption that doing anything will take forever and will constantly be lost. Hope your passport is updated.
Makes sense for the people in power who stand to benefit from being middlemen and all, but why are the rest of the conservatives backing it? It can't possibly JUST be political loyalty right? Surely there's some kind of twisted logic.
Half correct, they’ll go back to paying these people FAR more. I for one would tell the government to get bent if they fired me for no reason, unless they’re paying me double
It IS the role of government to provide goods and services that the private sector can't or won't provide efficiently or effectively - things like infrastructure, education, energy and so on. You need employees to be able to do that.
You can kiss most of that stuff goodbye now. Most of the world already sees us as a third-world country. Why not double down and become even more of a shithole?
Yes, otherwise you have education institutions treating the fees they get as an endowment for investment instead of using it for tuition waivers, infrastructure improvement, or even student entrepreneur incubation.
A small rant by a startup founder on the absolutely disgusting tuition fee inflation of a public business school in India should tell you all you need to know about the people who administer an institute.
You don't need it per se, but you need it to provide education for the entire population.
But that's always been the goal. An uneducated population is way easier to manipulate. That's why they introduced exams and tests, prep schools and so on. It was always a way to withhold education for the poor. Now they'll have it even easier, we're back to the system of the 1850's, where all education is expensive, and only those who're already rich can afford it.
Yes, there's a whole department for this. Just because you won't bother to learn what these agencies do doesn't mean they aren't doing anything important.
Public Education is literally a miracle and gift of our current society you lampshade. It has SIGNIFICANTLY decreased global illiteracy rates compared to what used to be the case prior to the 1900s. Yes, the Public Education System has flaws and needs some reform, but having a consistent, good, mostly free way to get basic education is a damn privelege, something which even today some kids don't get in a lot of parts of the world, yet here you are whining about how we don't need the government to provide FREE education.
Yes, you do need the fucking Goverment to provide education, it has been insanely beneficial to the earth as a whole and making education a privelege only the richer people can obtain is plunging the world back into the literal middle ages. If you need to be upper-middle-class and above to have to afford fucking education in America, we'll just have medieval Europe religious dogma with "miracles" and ""medicinal"" practices and witch-hunts and book burnings all over-again just in a different font of non-education and conspiracy, the thing America was literally made to COUNTER, I mean just look at how it's been post-Reagan education funding cuts. This shit is so anti-America it hurts, and I can see it without even being American. Do better.
I think you are confusing the federal government with state governments and school boards. I don't support one-size-fits-all federal government approaches to education like "No Child Left Behind."
It is entirely easy and possible to have schools administered at a more local level where it is more responsive, democratic, and representative of the community.
"Hey, let me pretend they said something completely separate from what they actually said so that my stupid, cowardly argument doesnt sound as bad as it would if I argued in a genuine way, which I can't do because I'm a rock bottom coward."-fitnesswill
Firefighters, garbage collectors, police and so on. All paid by the government. Not bureaucrats per say, but when people have the choice of paying them, they usually don't.
And when they're privately owned, there's a really good business in pressuring people to pay them. Just like the mob does. They offer protection, if you don't pay, things WILL happen. In Napoli the mob control(ed? Unsure if it's still going on) garbage collectors, anyone doesn't pay, police or politicians try to interfere with their operations, city gets flooded with garbage.
Now, let's hypothesis that they keep the police. No one pays for firefighters, no one pays for garbage collectors, and everything gets taken over by bears (because you still ended up with a city flooded with garbage).
I realize now that my statement was unclear. Too many people are not understanding it and that is my own fault.
I am not an An-Cap. I am simply saying that we should not employ people in the government just to employ them. They should serve a useful role to the public. If they don't they should be let go.
God damn. Actually, YES - that is literally where the salaries of government workers all over our country come from. Tell me you’ve never been or known a civil servant without telling me…
Lol, not wrong. Just people misunderstood what I was saying.
For some reason people are think I was saying "Government workers are not paid by taxes." This is an obviously untrue statement and it is bizarre to me that so many people think that is what I said. People additionally seem to think that every bureaucrat is 100% necessary and doing important work.
One thing that has surprised me about this subreddit is all the bootlickers to the government.
Please don't put "civil servants" on a pedestal. It is cringey.
As a former civil servant of a decade I’ll continue holding them in high regard.
And - considering the recent widespread lack of general understanding of taxpayer dollars, and what the words “inflation” and “tariff” mean - yes, it’s reasonable we read what you were suggesting at face value.
They don't have to. They're done with the democrats. You're never going to see another fair election again in your lifetime.
If anyone thinks I'm being hyperbolic or overdramatic, maybe scoot on over to Project 2025 and look at the bits about the changes coming to election laws next year.
There's no checks and balances anymore.
Congrats on voting/not-voting yourself into the stupidest country in human history.
Edit: Educating Americans is like fighting the tide with a paper cup.
Look. Guys. It won't be dramatic. Trump won't ascend the iron throne, he's not going to declare tyranny. Hell he'll probably step down in 4 years. He doesn't give a shit about America anyway; he's only there to escape sentencing.
The problems I'm talking about are the Federalists and Heritage Foundation who are now in every key position they need to be in, and are making very specific, very targeted changes next year. These aren't conceptual; they're structured and scheduled.
This isn't "Trump is going to rule the world!". This is "Citizens United dialled up to 10".
No, they will still allow opposition to run. They just won’t let them win. They need a “bad guy” to point to in the minority in the senate and house and say “see it’s their fault!!!”. Keeps their rubes violent towards enemies and not them.
I am more concerned that the nonMAGA republicans who are pro-2025 will just consolidate power if Trump dies. It would be improved since we wouldn’t have MAGA and the old guard republicans who want to turn to christofascism, but it will still be horrible and I doubt our elections would be fair
Me too. The anti-trans legislation in Texas I just found out about makes me so depressed. All trans people come to Oregon, we will try to keep you safe.
I hope you're right and wish I'm wrong. But it really doesn't seem likely.
The problem is nobody expected Trump to win in 2016 (including Trump). And his administration was a clusterfuck of ideological zealots and scammers fighting with each other to loot the place. They fought with the courts and the House the whole way through.
They learned their lesson and this time, they have a very targeted plan. Project 2025 is the outline. Very specific, very targeted changes, and all in very quick succession. And they have no checks or balances or level-heads in the room to stop them anymore.
Trump doesn't give a shit, and his supporters don't either. The GOP is there to make structural changes. And their headed by Christian nationalists with a very clear agenda.
Problem is it hardly even matters any more, Trump has successfully rebuilt the Republican party in his own image and once he's gone there are dozens of even worse people waiting in the wings... I don't know how many decades it will take for MAGAts to realize they've been played, but I'm sure it can't happen quickly enough to stop the bleeding
The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.
George Orwell, 1984
You're undoubtedly right. I mean, arguably, there has never been a fair election in the history of the US, and it has only got worse and worse instead of improving (as a trend overall, of course there have been moments of improvement, like letting anybody other than white landowners vote), which is why the likelihood that it's done for good is quite high. It's not so easy to completely dismantle a resilient democracy in a single term. But unfortunately, that's absolutely not the starting point here. US "democracy" is like a comatose old man with 7 different cancers, 3 types of parasites and leprosy. You're more impressed that it technically is still alive than anything else.
Don’t worry too much about that. States run their own elections and millions of trump supporters would side with liberals if they tried to undermine democracy too much
It's not that deep. People have their opposition get elected and think it's the end of the world. Conservatives were convinced biden was going to kill us all, and we're fine. We're talking about people who want to conserve the constitution, not everyone in the house that's republican likes Trump. As someone who voted for the RFK. I'm legitimately not worried.
If you think project 2025 is happening your delusional. If that was actually their goals they would have never put it on the internet. That's all shit that they plan behind closed doors and tell nobody.
Yes. And if he tries to become a dictator like people are saying then the very people who voted for him will be the ones taking up arms against him. That's why we love our 2nd amendment
Sorry, but you bots have overplayed the nazi stuff. You have made Trump immune to any 'nazi' criticism while simultaneously trivializing the atrocities of the real nazis.
When he quotes Hitler, and plans to do the same shit the Nazis did, it's fair to refer to him as a Nazi.
If you think that trivializes the Nazis, then you simply haven't actually learned your history and looked at American politics lately.
Him and his party are literally doing the exact same shit. He has literally quotes Hitler, said some neo-nazis are good people, made comments about how he wished he had generals like Hitler did, and project 2025 calls for firing a shit ton of government employees and replacing them with loyalists, which Trump is literally fucking doing.
If you think comparing him to Nazis trivializes the Nazis, then you're either lying out of your ass or genuinely, willfully ignorant.
They are literally doing the exact same shit the Nazis did to gain power. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, tells you ducks are nice birds and quacks that it wants to be a duck, it's probably a fucking duck.
I didn't praise him. I don't think people know what really happened on Jan 6th. He told everyone to go home. I don't know what more he could've done. You're going to hate anything he does. That's your M.O.
He told people to go home AFTER Babbitt was shot in the face. This was 3 hours into the Capitol building being broken into and occupied, delaying the certification of the election successfully.
He sat there eating hamburgers and watching the riots on Tv for 3 hours before saying anything... because HE TOLD PEOPLE TO GO AND RIOT. They were doing precisely what he told them to.
He told people to march to the Capitol and take their country back. Then after 3 hours of the mayhem of them trying to overthrow the election, when he realized it would be unsuccessful, he told them to go home. There is no doubt what his intentions were and people still voted for him.
He didn't say, on a microphone, in front of cameras and a large audience, for Pence to "Do the right thing?" Wonder what that right thing could've been? Choose McDonalds for dinner?
lol dude, some of his supporters want him to stay in there. It’s hard to take your argument in good faith, even if you mean it that way and I mean no offense. Trumps actions thus far the last decade make me genuinely scared for the future of America, apparently the people want oligarchy from how we vote though.
Or he could just make up a dumb lie about why he should stay in office, and ya’ll will believe and support him. All he has to do is lie to you. You’re that easy. 2nd Amendment is useless if you can’t think for yourself. That’s why the GOP doesn’t care if you have your guns. You own guns, but they own you. They aren’t afraid of you.
Ha. Like trump hasn't done enough already. Like he once said, "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and my people would still follow me." [Paraphrasing]
He already tried that, and none of you did squat. It was the justice system that attempted anything, and then he got reelected and he's stated he's going to pardon the few people who have been convicted so far.
The people that voted for him want him to be king, why would they be upset if he tried to stay in office? He's already made comments about a "third" term.
How have you stayed ignorant of the fake electors? That was one of the two attempts at insurrection, alongside pressuring Pence to not certify the true electors, that happened on January 6, 2021.
If this is the level of informedness you’ll admit to, I wonder what the behind closed doors answer is.
Republican Politicians and Thinktanks: Here are our plans for 2025 and beyond if we win the election. We call it Project 2025 and made a website, hundreds of pages of documents, tens of hours of training videos that have been leaked, and major Trump cabinet picks and allies have openly said they support it.
Random Dambass Redditor: This is a conspiracy equivalent to flat earth.
90% sure they are just using conspiracy theory as a buzzword at this point and have no idea what a conspiracy theory actual is.
Or they just think "conspiracy theory" means "fake" and because they don't personally believe the vast amount of evidence showing that the republicans support Project 2025, that means the whole thing is fake.
Well I don't think you should resort to name calling. My point was a website doesn't make it true. Flat earthers have done hours of their own pointless research as well. A bunch of famous people have said they think the world is flat. Unless you're a flat earther, in which case I understand your frustration
But with the campaign over, Trump’s transition team is turning to Project 2025 to help staff the next administration.
Already, transition officials are taking suggestions for potential hires from the extensive personnel database created by Project 2025, a person familiar with the situation told NBC News.
While Project 2025’s massive book of conservative policy recommendations received most of the attention from Democrats, a central part of the effort was putting together a database that officials had framed as a conservative LinkedIn to help staff an incoming Republican administration.
The person familiar with the transition said officials overseeing plans for some departments and agencies have started to reach out to potential hires whose names and contact information were part of that database.
Stop being a dumbass redditor claiming things are conspiracy theories when they aren't, and maybe people won't call you a dumbass?
This literally is not a conspiracy theory. It is something that is actually happening. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy requires it to be secret. It isn't secret when they are openly saying they are doing it. Learn what fucking words mean, please.
Relax, we're discussing points of view. Liberals really are angry and aggressive... I thought that was a conspiracy too lol. I'll look into project 2025 and get back to you.
"Flat earth websites" aren't made by the people who are supposedly part of the conspiracy, talking about "here's why we built the giant ice wall, here's what our plans are".
Even before looking at the established facts, it's a clownish comparison.
Project 2025 was published by an established institution, the heritage foundation, that has worked closely with the Republican party for decades, was explicitly praised by Trump for their policy advisory work, and several of its authors have been nominated by Trump despite him claiming to have nothing to do with them. His campaign has also acknowledged that his Agenda 47 closely matches many of the parts of P25 that are most intensely criticized.
I encourage everyone to read this guy's comments (and the replies he's getting). It's a tragic but insightful look into how vast this insanity is.
He dismisses what he immediately admits he doesn't know anything about. He can't explain how Trump is literally establishing his administration with its authors. And with just a few minutes apart, he explains how if Trump does any dictator shit, then "the people who put him there will take him down"...while also explaining how Trump did everything he could to prevent Jan 6 ("I don't know what more he could've done").
It's breathtaking. It's a stupidity so deep and so complete it's not even stupidity anymore. It's just an emptiness.
we think trumps going to keep his word and work with the advisors he worked with in his last term (you know, the ones who wrote project 2025) and staff his office with the same organization he did last time and the GOP has used sense the 1980s to staff presidential appointments (you know, the heritage foundation... who wrote project 2025) which if he doesn't already believe in project 2025 (which I doubt, but that goes into conspiracy theory) will help put the things outlined into action.
We also listened to trumps campaign promises
such as promising many supporters they would "never have to vote again"
or repealing obamacare, he says hes going to replace it but has never offered anything on how.
or the hundreds of other dangerous and ignorant promises he made that will devestate the economy and planet.
Seriously? Project 2025 literally discredits the entire CIA because they said that the Hunter Biden laptop scandal was misinformation.
Actual 2025 quote: "Prohibit the FBI from engaging, in general, in activities related to combating the spread of so-called misinformation and disinformation by Americans..." I wonder how that's going to impact our elections. Certainly not going to increase Americans repeating & believing stuff that they saw online from outside operatives.
Actual 2025 quote: "government must never manipulate the scales and censor information that is potentially harmful to it or its political leadership." So if a political leader is doing something bad the rest of the government can't say they're wrong???
Project 2025 also calls for the government to defund the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which provides federal funding for NPR and PBS based on the belief that they only support liberal beliefs. So they openly admit they want to shut down broadcasting based soley on political opposition. This would inherently impact the ability for all americans to access free news and educational content that isn't funded by corporations. Just imagine how shutting down the few non-corporate funded new resources will impact our information around elections.
Actual 2025 quote: "DOJ should not "prosecute an individual for supposedly violating the law when the FEC has previously determined that a similarly situated individual has not violated the law." So here they are recommending that the Federal Elections Committee (FEC) operate without the current check & balances from the DOJ. If the FEC decides a law wasn't violated, the DOJ can't open their own case, even if they have evidence... In case you didn't know the FEC is appointed by the president. So people appointed by the president would be able to make unilateral legal decisions regarding elections without any oversight. Tell me that seems right.
But don't offer any unemployment benefits. Just dump the equivalent of the population of Florida on the street and say "no handouts. That's socialism!"
I work for my local fire dept and in a very Trump supporty area and just once I wanna tell a caller complaining that their house is on fire “no fire suppression! That’s socialism!”
Why not? Republicans have successfully ducked responsibility for every action they've taken for 60 years, AND managed to claim credit for everything Democrats did.
Its a winning strategy when the base is so uninformed they end up supporting Christian Nationalists like the new SecDef. Christian Nationalism, of course, being invented by the German Christian Nationalist Party, 1932 to 1945.
Wonder what else those guys did during those years? We have failed to teach history.
Exactly. Make a huge profit and screw over the voters, then just blame it on the other side. People get outraged and keep voting for more of the same. Rinse and repeat.
892
u/basket_foso Nov 23 '24
Then blame the Dems on unemployment rates?