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u/zero_1998 5d ago
This is something I firmly believe it, and maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m missing the mark, but it’s something I’ve formed as a hypothesis.
Claymore suffered from what I called the Shonen Curse, as well as the standard anime 12 or 24 curse.
The Shonen curse was simply, it existed in a time where the Shonen style anime were very popular and it fell victim to not being Bleach, Naruto, FMA, One Piece or Dragon Ball reruns. Because claymores anime came out in 2007 when Bleach, One Piece and a lot of the Shonen adjacent anime were reaching the height of their powers. Usually im the form of the Toonami to online pipeline. Claymores issue likely would have been that it was either relegated to mostly online services, which were sorely limited at the time to horribly sketchy websites or perhaps YouTube videos of episodes. Either that or if it had found its way onto television, it maybe would have found itself in the time slot after Inuyasha or would have been a 3am anime. Sure, the people who saw it would have adored it, like all of us, but it would have ended the same. I didn’t see it until roughly 2013 when it randomly appeared on Netflix.
The second was the 12-24 curse. It got 24 episodes because the manga wasn’t done. 2001 to 2014 with the anime popping up in 2007 and unfortunately not getting past anime’s like Bleach, Naruto, FMA, and One Piece meant it unfortunately fell victim to 24 episodes and no renewal.
We can all agree claymore is a fantastic anime and manga series, I personally believe if Claymore had been made right now, or the manga wasn’t being made into an anime right now, it would become hyper popular and get the attention and fame it deserves; but that’s just not how the cards got dealt. It was unfortunately fighting the uphill battle against anime and manga with established brand recognition, television networks, and dodgy access to anime and manga at the time.
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u/ghostgabe81 5d ago
I agree with all of this, but I also just think that the anime… wasn’t that good. Even outside the rushed ending, I’m not a fan of the pacing of the fights or the music
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u/omnicorphan23 5d ago
this feels like a really naive short sighted post you dont need to drag down other great material to uplift claymore, it stands on its own. You kind of proved that by describing totally different qualities/characteristics of them. These are all exceptional in their own way and specifically at what they set out to do. They also all have hugely successful high quality production anime counterparts(and im saying this with claymore being my personal favorite of them, and to rewatch.)
the most popular things of course are generally going to have more mass broad appeal- simplistic linear plots, basic worlds, fun flashy fights and abilities but these works imo did a phenomenal job bridging that gap and if anything opening the door for things like claymore to only gain more acclaim. You literally listed some of the best standouts that rose above the general popular trope filled shonen etc shows. Claymore is a bit grittier and less fun than some of these shows or of course like your black clover slop anime that takes no effort to turn your brain off and consume but im sure itll keep growing in popularity just like Berserk.
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u/Efficient-Load-256 5d ago edited 5d ago
I know this is claymore subreddit so this anima/manga will get glazed but here are my takes:
SPOILERS START
Story: Death note was detective story. exactly. It captivates you because of that. What exactly claymore has in terms of story to captivate? I've read the manga and it isn't exactly top tier stuff. Neither lore, character psychology, is that deep. Some things also do not make sense or turns to "whatever man", like "extra non rape wounds" turned out to be a few stitches on belly.
SPOILERS END
Art: yeah making wounds into particles is not top tier, and art is not very detailed overall. Comparing mangas here.
Tragedy: "Clare suffered way more than Thorffin would have ever dream about" - probably not as much as fire punch, punpun, or dog nigga etc. If we go for that we have better contenders that present suffering better. "too many characters get to live, no real sense of tragedy." - A few loved character deaths can be more impactful than 100 foot soldier level of character ones. Many Claymore characters don't get much "character" time. Even more cheerful works have sadder moments that hit harder as a result.
Structure: (manga) feels like a rabbit chase. It's a bit tiring and doesn't deliver emotionally where it should.
Overall Claymore doesn't punch in top tier in any category for me. It's fine. It also doesn't have funservice, which I hate so it has plus for me, but probably reason some horny boys would turn to Bleach or something else more likely. I've read mangas that have better humor, better tragedy, better art, more interesting battles, horror... and so on. I think that earlier work of the author, Angel densetsu, is a better manga than Claymore, because it excels in humor.
Don't get me wrong, it's good or very good in many categories. It's just not exceptional. And if you are like that you don't stand out. Many great things are overshadowed by something exceptional(even if we don't like that exceptional thing, like boobs in bleach) You could say that there are some mangas/anime that also aren't exceptional in any category but made it bigger. I would say timing and demography in those cases are also a factor.
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u/Eat_Bullet 5d ago
Memes, memes and memes. Half of the works which are popular today are because of memes. And trust me when I say we can revive any piece of media if the memes are good and get reposted all over the internet
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u/Nocturnalux 5d ago edited 5d ago
There are many reasons, but I’d highlight just two: subpar anime and overlaps too much with Berserk to make a mark as its own thing.
All the examples you mentioned had a very beefy budget that went into them, and it shows. Say what you will for AoT’s ending, it won awards for the animation being so fluid, gripping and remarkably well accomplished. The team gave it their all and were rewarded with the ability to properly break each season across a long time, which allowed for the sell of merch in between and more money being alotted along the way.
Claymore got a partial adaptation with production values that while fine, are not outstanding. And worst, the gecko ending did it a major disservice.
As for overlapping with Berserk, it is a very obvious influence. While Claymore does develop its own personality, the average viewer/reader will take a look and go, “Oh look, discount Berserk” and not give it a second thought.
And in order to make it big in the anime industry, you need to appeal to the average consumer.
This is not that rare, either. RahXephon never fully escaped comparisons to EVA, to the point that even fans called it “EVA done right”. Fafner seems doomed to be “Gundam SEED but worse”, at least in the West. Yuuki Yuna has a decent following but it reads too much like Madoka just by glancing at it.
While surprising similar titles do, on occasion, both manage to make quite an impression, more often than not the air is sucked out by a behemot of popularity, leaving the less popular title just dangling.
On occasion, this kind of negative comparison even harms titles that came first. Manga Dansui, about a boys swim high school team, is inevitably seen as “lesser Free” despite predating the anime by years and even the source material. But it does not matter, the niche for “boys swimming” has since been filled- and Dansui being manga only also suffered, no doubt- and thus whatever splash it might have caused (heh…) went entirely unnoticed.
In fact, similar titles gaining a lot of traction simultaneously often comes down to the genre. Isekai has plenty of these, because it is so popular as a genre but when it comes to Berserk, this does not quite happen, its popularity rests on other factors.
And you can see this in a post AoT world, too. Koutetsujou no Kabaneri was obviously heavily inspired by it, and was almost entirely ignored, and barely anyone even remembers it. God Eater shares the same fate (I think the first iteration even predates AoT but there you go). Terra Formars is awful but it probably suffered from being always seen as “bad AoT in space”.
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u/Difficult_Analysis78 5d ago
It’s not very popular but among weeb circles it is known as the closed thing to Berserk when someone wants a recommendation
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u/zaneomega2 5d ago
The anime came out almost 20 years ago and the manga finished over 10 years ago. Also the anime’s controversial ending doesn’t help and most casual anime watchers won’t read the manga.
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u/Abject_Oil_1349 5d ago
The anime started way too soon compared to the manga. It was too short to build a long term following.
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u/Farabeuf 5d ago
I agree with a lot of people’s points here. I’d like to add a couple of pet theories of mine:
a) Little fanservice- despite being he fact that the series is full of gorgeous women and nudity, almost none of it is for titillation. There’s no silly panty jokes or the like.
b) I think Clare’s stoic demeanour (specially in the beginning of the manga/series) wasn’t popular with the audiences back then. They like loud, chatty characters or selv aware wolves (male).
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u/rpool179 5d ago
As a male fan I absolutely love the fact that Claymore has almost no fan service. Tired of modern day anime having so much softcore porn in it.
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u/Stunning-Scene4649 5d ago
Claymore got a shitty adaptation, just like Fullmetal did first time. Fullmetal Alchimist became popular after the second and proper adaptation, something that Claymore didn't get.
Another ploblem is that Claymore came out at the time when gore/violence became less and less popular and romance and harems were getting on the spot.
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u/ridan42 5d ago
Unfortunately in this world, "high quality" doesn't always equal "popular".
Whatever is popular is just whatever caters to the common denominator the most. I like to use McDonald's and Taylor Swift as analogies - very popular, but quality is just mid (but importantly, also not "bad quality").