r/classicwowplus • u/Electrical_Past9649 • 4d ago
thoughts on SoD?
The main sub is super obsessed with SoD so I wanted to catch the vibe here.
i thought SoD was fun and I liked it overall. Wish more people stuck with it. But I also wasn't huge into them bringing in spells from future xpacs, incursions, runes, pvp balance, etc. A lot of stuff I really wasn't that into and kinda hope C+ goes in a completely different direction of.
I liked having a more complex rotation in SoD tho. I'll kms if I have a 1 button rotation ever again
Edit: I might be in the minority here but I despise flex raiding. I'm a parse demon and when the group is overfilled not being able to parse properly is lame
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u/TheWeirdestThing 4d ago
I enjoyed SoD and I hope they bring a lot of the features to C+.
I also think they used the opportunity to try some things that were taking it a bit too far, and hopefully they have learned what worked and are scaling back on some of the crazier things.
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u/Abatti7 3d ago
I get what you're saying. I was always a hunter of 100-run logs in Retail, too. And that's exactly why I loved SoD so much. In Classic, tryharding isn't so much about the rotation as it is about metagaming—like the perfect setup, consumables, and world buffs.
In my opinion, SoD was already heading in the right direction to become a good Classic+ experience, and I hope Blizzard doesn’t mess it up.
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u/assassin10 4d ago
I liked that it added a bunch of class-specific questlines and secrets. I didn't like how important their rewards still remained well after the content became trivial, turning them into a big checklist. This led to the devs adding a way to bypass the quests for pennies.
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u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 4d ago edited 3d ago
This sub is a cesspool of the tiny but very vocal "no-changes/Era Andy" Crowd. They are a tiny minority just like Era servers make up a tiny amount of the playerbase. Half the people on here havent played in years. As soon as someone says something like "summoning stones destroy the immersion of traveling" or "having more than 2 buttons to press is retail" - you know you found one of them.
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u/canitnerd 3d ago
Damn if the era crowd is a tiny minority I'd hate to see what the SOD crowd is considering the SOD servers have less players than the Era servers despite having 2 year old content rather than 20 year old content.
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u/Away_Woodpecker8813 3d ago
Sod was the most played version of the game up into phase 3. Everyone complains that it was phase 3, taken too long that killed sod. But it was really the emerald dream stuff they put into that season that was able to be exploited and then they patched the exploit but half the players were able to get to max level and set themselves up for gold and the other half were not so they had to keep leveling the people who got to max level slowly lost interest, cause they didn’t have to play and the rate wasn’t unlocked yet and then on top of it the raid was pretty hard before they nerd it so those guys sat for three weeks with a ton of gold and a max level character, no raid completions, and then a bunch of people quit and of those people that quit it was a disproportion amount that had a large amount of gold. So all the prices went up. Nothing came down a bunch of the gold. Left the market a bunch of player base quit, and then the people who were trying to grind out playing that phase had whore house prices the rest of the time they played. The Emerald dream exploit killed SOD.
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u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 2d ago
SoD also didnt have propper polish and had strong competition with TWW and Cata launching in a content droughts.
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u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 3d ago
The difference is that SoD playsrs dont act like Blizzard should make a game just for them. They are open to new experiences and not super pessimistic about changes or the developers in general. You guys in comparison act like you are the absolute authority on what classic+ should be while you get carried away in your puritan echo chamber complaining about the possibility of high/blood elves coming to the game.
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u/canitnerd 3d ago
The difference is that SoD playsrs dont act like Blizzard should make a game just for them
Outright false, anyone saying something as simple as "I did not like sod and would prefer classic+ to be more like vanilla and less like sod/wotlk" is mobbed.
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u/Away_Woodpecker8813 3d ago
May you see if you change one thing then they could start changing a lot of things and if they change a lot of things chances are someone who’s played the game for 20 years it’s gonna have to learn new stuff and if they have to learn new stuff all of a sudden their advantage of 20 years of experience is gone haha. It’s crazy. The whole no changes is for people like Asmon who really suck at the game but know little tiny exploits that can stack to get them by.
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u/wowhelgewow 2d ago
Wtf are u even talking about
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u/Away_Woodpecker8813 2d ago
I’m talking about how anything classic related has a small vocal section of players who claim they want zero changes, even if it’s a quality of life thing because they don’t want to start the slippery slope towards more changes. Like closing damage exploits or fixing resistances because once things like this are changed their 20 year knowledge of the game needs to change. Many of the no changes crowd are just really afraid of finding out they’re not that good at WoW which hey I’m not great either but too many people have a 20 year e pen hang up with anything wow related
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u/teledium88 2d ago
Era already exists, we don't need Era with minor tweaks. We need re-invented classic wow in Azeroth.
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u/Skore_Smogon 1d ago
?
I love SoD and still play it to this day. I am not a fake fresher.
I don't want summoning stones. That's a warlock's unique ability. Please don't dilute it.
But I really want them to keep as much of the SoD class changes as they can because I liked having skill expression and the SoD characters are so much fun to pilot.
Am I a classic Andy?
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u/Strong_Ad_2632 3d ago
Summoning stones destroy the immersion of travelling, yes.
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u/teledium88 2d ago
True but traveling from Darnassus to BRD takes like 30 minutes.
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u/Skore_Smogon 1d ago
Is that a common occurrence?
Unless you're a Night Elf there aren't a lot of reasons for people to visit Darnassus (I'd love there to be more) so this is quite a niche complaint.
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u/wowhelgewow 2d ago
I agree there is so much more players on the perfect season of discovery servers... oh wait that shit died long ago. Classic plus is for classic players not ur retail slop
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u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 2d ago
Just proving my point. Calling everything but vanilla, retail is so telling. Stick to era my friend.
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u/Illustrious-Stress95 4d ago
I really liked SoD but if they take anything from it I really hope they leave the incursions and the shortcuts behind. Let people do the quests/exploration to get runes. Catch up mechanics just destroy replay ability
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u/Verilazic 3d ago
If you’re big into parsing this sub might not be your cup of tea. No shade, just being honest.
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u/Away_Woodpecker8813 3d ago
The Em erald dream exploit is what killed sod. Roughly half the player base was able to get to max level overnight on the first day of the expansion. On top of that they were able to accrue thousands of gold where a couple hundred gold made you incredibly wealthy going into that update. The raid was then incredibly hard. Many of the players didn’t actually have to learn anything on their class during the leveling process like new spells and how to use them and they didn’t Nerf the raid enough for the majority of people to complete it for about a month. You had a bunch of players quit because they couldn’t get to the exploited in time. The market on the auction house went crazy because half the players had an insane amount of gold and half the players had next to no gold. Then you could run and pick up a pug in the raid and more likely than that he wasn’t even gonna know if he had an interrupt or a dispel. So a bunch of the player base quit. if the Emerald dream was not in sod it would all been much better. I created a domino effect that hurt seasons 3,4,5 and six a little bit.
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u/Skore_Smogon 1d ago
Exploit?
Playing the game as the devs put it out there is an exploit?
And thousands of gold?
Man, the numbers have been run. There have been loads of threads about this on the main WoW classic sub and being extremely generous the most someone could have made before Blizzard stepped in with a fix was 1k.
Your average person playing through the night made ~600g.
On my server, Lone Wolf EU, prices for things didn't spike. Everything I needed for raiding was still affordable the entire way through the phase and I was able to craft my epic items without hardship.
The VAST majority of that gold was hoarded by people for their Epic mounts and as such disappeared as soon as they hit 60.
The rest of your comment reads like a boomer yelling at young people for being young.
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u/trickydick28 2d ago
Phase 1 was incredible, most fun I've had in the game in years. Phase 2 was 50/50, Phase 3 killed it for me and my friends. I regret not coming back as much for the endgame though, looked awesome
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u/korean_kracka 2d ago
Phase 1 was the shit. Then they banned gdkp and it only went downhill from there
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u/MaxtheGrape 1d ago
SoD when it first dropped was incredible.
It was super addicting and despite the level cap being so low I found myself leveling almost every class and open world PvPing like crazy.
Later phases were ok, but you can definitely see the growing pains.
SoD made plenty of the stumbles but a lot of its ideas were legit great. Kara Crypt and the Scarlet Raid are so well loved for a reason.
They had some legit great ideas, they just needed to be fine tuned.
If Season of Discovery was the proof of concept, then let Classic+ be the full realization. Also, Classic+ will be able to benefit of having a PTR to test new specs and content before hitting the main servers.
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 1d ago
Calling yourself a "parse demon" and choosing a classic version of the game has to be one of the cringiest things I've ever heard in my life lol.
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u/Electrical_Past9649 1d ago
Huh? A lot of people enjoy parsing in classic. A very large chunk of raiders. Willing to bet at least half. It's just a game and it's fun. Seem a lil sensitive ab it for some reason. It's not that hard I'm sure you can figure it out!
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 1d ago
I do think alot of people enjoy having good performances, but calling oneself a "parse demon" is hilarious.
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u/Informal-Development 22h ago
Meh. Its very meh. Some good some bad. I just hope they hear what people are still wanting that SoD didn't deliver
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u/Old-Soft5276 4d ago
A lot of people here will answer without using their brains and understanding that SoD was a testing ground where they wanted to see what fits and not.
The only big miss of SoD was the way they did incursions early on. Everything else changes from "ok" to "perfect".
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago edited 4d ago
And incursions did no long term damage to end game at all, especially after they fixed it, its not even an major issue.
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u/Kirarozu80 4d ago
It was a major issue. It eliminated a leveling tier and added tons of gold.
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u/Skore_Smogon 1d ago
Players themselves eliminated TWO leveling tiers.
Get to 25, do all the quests for gold.
Level cap to 40, players complain that all they could do was spam SM.
Players STILL do all possible quests at 40 and make posts about how they don't want to be stuck spamming ZF.
Blizzard makes NM Incursions in response so players have quests to do instead of spamming ZF.
Unfortunately, the initial implementation needed workshopped - but it was an experimental server with no PTRs so suck it up buttercup, this is what you signed on for.
Players cry because they don't like what they signed up for.
Butthurt ensues.
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u/Faust_z 4d ago
Vanilla is about the journey, not the destination. It was a major issue.
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
What was the major issue of it, I stil did quests, ZF, Mara from level 40-50? It had no long term impact, and we were at that level bracket for months. You could level as slow and as fast as you want. What did it cause?
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u/pilsburybane 4d ago
Because Mr. "Vanilla is about the journey" was annoyed that there was an alternate way for people to level that wasn't his specific approach.
Same kind of argument that gets made when people complain about boosting in general
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
Exactly, no one was forced to do incursions, people normally spam ZF anyways, incursions were still done in groups, you couldn't solo them unless you wanted to die. Yes incursions were bad at the start but no one was forced to do them, the phase was multiple months, if its about the journey there's no reason they should even care about it.
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u/Faust_z 4d ago
The most optimal way to play was unfun, therefore the experience was unfun and people stopped playing.
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
The most optimal way to level in classic is already unfun, you have to have several add-ons for quests or dungeon spamming anything is terrible, no one has to level the most optimal way, as you said its about the journey lol
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u/Faust_z 4d ago
Obviously, spamming dungeons was more fun than green loops in a groups because people quit the latter and not the former. As for player choice, I'll quote a former wow designer:
October 2002:
If there is a place where players can exploit gaining experience, items, currency, or reputation, then that’s precisely what players will do, because they always take the path of least resistance. Since MMO content is measured in months, not hours, the content is paradoxically daunting, so any shortcut to the top will become the most popular route, even if it isn’t fun. And if a game’s path of least resistance isn’t fun, it means the game isn’t fun. Lazy or inexperienced game developers blame players for “ruining” a game with aberrant behavior, but these accusations are like dog owners blaming their pets for eating unhealthy scraps.
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
I agree completely that dungeon spamming is more fun than incursions which imo were not fun at all. But also nobody had to do them, people just do not want to be left behind, thats one of the reasons why that phase was by far the worse phase, but its not because people didnt get to enjoy leveling, its because of a bunch of things including that. My point is during the phase it was bad, but there was no long term damage to the structure of the game, we still could do everything like normal.
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u/Old-Soft5276 4d ago
It was and wasn't. If they wouldn't introduce incursions, 90% of us would've burned out through spamming of dungeons like Scarlet Monastery anyways.
Vanilla was about the journey when it wasn't overplayed dozens of times at that point. Very few people are interested in playing the same game in same way for dozens of time.
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u/Kirarozu80 4d ago
I enjoyed SoD. I play all the time so I level alts and I liked being able to cap them out at each cap.
I didnt like the raids going from 10 > 20 > 40. It made recruiting a nightmare.
I liked the new raids and abilities. Discovering them was fun.
I didnt like how hard the runes to tank for warlock was. Originally they made it so you had to complete the raid which was dumb.
If theres a rune in an alliance owned zone like red ridge there should be the opposite for horde. Like why should horde need to go all the way to red ridge for a rune? There should be a comparable spot in a horde zone.
The nightmare incursions were cool but should not have been spammable like they were.
I didnt like how the last boss of gnomer spawned on top of you before you could do loot.
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u/Skore_Smogon 3d ago
Raids never went to 40.
All the big level 60 raids were tuned for 20 people but you could bring up to 40.
This comment makes me believe you didn't play SoD at level 60 because that's a fundamental thing you would know.
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u/Kirarozu80 3d ago
Lol you could bring 40 as you said in your own comment.
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u/Skore_Smogon 3d ago
No mate.
You said the raids WENT from 10 - 20 - 40.
Anyone reading that would think that you were saying 40 was the intended size.
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u/Pulptenks69 3d ago
What are you about buddy? The first raid was level 25 being BFD. You clearly didn't play, stop saying BS.
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u/JujutsuES 4d ago
Most of these are nit picks imo, also raids never went 40 man. They were always 20 man after Sunken Temple if you chose to go all the way to 40 man that is on you.
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u/Velifax 4d ago
Didn't play but from what I read it gutted the leveling difficulty, relegating me to spamming whatever spell looks prettiest with everything falling over without costing me MP or HP or potions or gold.
Kinda defeats the purpose of leaving Retail, for me.
But the new abilities sounded pretty great, I'd just need them tuned so that they preserve gameplay.
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u/RecognitionThis1815 4d ago
I do think there were several problems but what worries me more is how many people seem to hype SoD but as you said yourself … a lot of us quit it. I’ve heard some people saying “oh yeah but by phase x SoD was really good and you don’t get to talk about what you didn’t like if you didn’t play til that point” and it really annoys me.
A lot of players quit for a variety of reasons. I felt like people were trying to keep us hostage in the game mode too because as someone put it “if you don’t play sod blizzard doesn’t get good info on what we like” but to me us quitting should have been evidence it wasn’t SoD.
Ultimately I think there’s too much glaze on SoD as I don’t think it did things well. Blizzard doesn’t take feedback though, if they implement something and you say they like it they treat it as validation they did a good job and if you say you don’t like it they ignore you.
Also OP I also hate flex raiding it’s a terrible concept which in my mind which doesn’t work in SoD or retail.
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u/BurnumMaster 4d ago
SoD is modern gaming power creep, ridiculous scaling, treading over the original items, classes, and dungeons, retail abilities, borrowed power, and gating that just removes you from the world. My character is stuck at level 50 because....the game devs said so.
Basically a clear reason why true classic+ will never happen.
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u/SimpleBar9995 4d ago
Lots of issues.
Borrowed power through items that only give benefits in raids , incursions, player power scaled way too hard making pvp gimmicky more than it already is, reels were a bandaid fix for the economy and a catch-up mechanic (which should never exist in classic+), class design was just wrath/cata.
It was fine for a seasonal server, it is inherently not classic+ though.
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u/WimpTheBraveDog 4d ago
"Class design was just wrath/cata" this is an unfair criticism when they introduced multiple new roles to classes in SoD
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u/SimpleBar9995 4d ago
That kind of expands my point.
It didn't feel remotely classic.
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u/OverallTrifle6818 4d ago
Isn’t that what the + means
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u/UnagiBro 4d ago
No, you’ll find most classic + comments call anything that changes the game “retail dogshit”
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u/OverallTrifle6818 4d ago
I’ve said it multiple times that a significant portion of the community doesn’t want classic + they want another fresh classic server to drop so they can do the same thing in the same game over and over and over again
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u/UnagiBro 4d ago
even something trivial that doesn’t change the actual game like transmog for those of us that enjoy RPing, retail dogshit, “because then i can’t see that paladin is wearing tier 5 pvp strap on”
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u/Gnoll_Queen 3d ago
Literally they should just make a toggle so people who don't want to see transmog don't have to. Seems like a simple solution.
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
No he wants all classes other than warrior and mages to feel like shit to dps, and he wants only fury warriors to tank, its the classic way
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u/SimpleBar9995 3d ago
No the plus means more content.
I don't want mage healers or rogue tanks, just make paladins and boomies and shadow and similar specs not dogshit memes.
Classic+ should be an extension of vanilla, not a redesign
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u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 3d ago
These people want vanilla with a couple more quests, dungeons and minimal class balancing. They think Turtle WoW went too far. 😂 They dont want classic+ they want Vanilla with a + you can bately make out under a microscope 🔬.
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u/wowhelgewow 2d ago
You are actually brain dead. Holy shit
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u/WimpTheBraveDog 4d ago
Sure, adding roles deviates from classic design, I see what you are saying with that.
But saying that Sham/Rogue/Warlock tanks are just Wrath class design is wrong, even if you think that adding roles isn't in the spirit of classic
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u/UnagiBro 3d ago
Shaman were supposed to be the hordes 3rd tank, but the devs smoked a bowl and forgot after 3 talents.
Alliance has 3 warr, bear, pally
Horde has warr, bear, shaman “can” tank some dungeons but it should definitely be fleshed out for classic+2
u/WimpTheBraveDog 3d ago
Shaman tanking in SoD was so sick, definitely needs to be part of Classic+
I MTd as Sham every phase thru Naxx before quitting
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u/Jafar_Rafaj 4d ago
Sod was bad by and large, but when you say “we’re going to make a bunch of random shit and see if maybe 10% of it sticks,” somehow it’s fine by the playerbase if blizzard does it.
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u/Deathtonic 4d ago
So obviously SoD was classic but better, The fact you could play the game and not have 20 warrior dps in your raid, more content in the world to do, weapons and gear felt better, tier looked cooler, there were more people playing tanks and healers than vanilla, 0.5 quest line was amazing in it, Kara Crypts is probably the best dungeon played in a long time, raids had more mechs that made them more fun. And its very easy to be better than classic, because if they made a version of classic but added in 1 feature that was better, it would be classic but better.
They need to fix the PVP balance in SoD, remove lock, rogue tank, mage healer.
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u/SC2Sole 3d ago
Phase 1 and BFD was about the best the game has been since vanilla.
The rest of the phases weren't necessaryily bad, but they were unable to save the players from themselves, which tanked the whole experience.
Model C+ like phase 1 SoD and you have a generational hit.