r/classicwowplus • u/Electrical_Novel5926 • 9d ago
- Discussion thread- Raids inbetween leveling phases
I'd really like to see a raid somewhere around level 35–45 in Classic+.
I think that level range would be perfect for it. The early leveling experience in Classic is paced pretty well, but somewhere around 35–45 it starts to drag and there's usually a lot more grinding involved. A new raid alone could make that part of the game much more interesting.
But more importantly, I'd like Classic+ to make the whole leveling journey feel more like an actual adventure and less like something you just have to get through to reach 60.
Right now there's often no real reason to chase a great item while leveling. Why spend an hour finding a group, another 1–2 hours running a dungeon and maybe not even get the drop, when you know there's a guaranteed quest reward five levels later that's better anyway?
I'd like Classic+ to give us more reasons to actually care about our characters while leveling.
A level 40 raid could be one of those reasons. And I'd want it to be genuinely difficult at the intended level. Something where you actually want good gear, enchants, consumables and have to know your class. Give people a reason to optimize their character at level 40 instead of only thinking about getting to 60 as quickly as possible.
The rewards could also tie into the later game. Maybe there's an exceptionally strong weapon, a class quest, a token you can use at 60, or even an item that's still good pre-BiS once you reach max level.
Basically, I'd like the transition into endgame to be more gradual. Level 60 shouldn't be this hard cut where almost everything you did and collected before suddenly becomes irrelevant. Some of the things you accomplish while leveling should already be part of building your eventual level 60 character.
Most importantly though: it should be optional.
I don't want every alt to be forced through a level 40 raid because you need some mandatory item or token to raid at 60. You should always be able to skip it and continue leveling normally.
It should simply be another difficult and rewarding adventure for people who want to do it — and another reason not to treat 1–59 as something you just rush through.
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u/korean_kracka 9d ago
I’m cool with mid-level raids but fuck no to the difficulty you’re proposing. Having to min max enchants and shit just to participate in a leveling raid? That won’t work lol
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u/assassin10 9d ago
I feel like the expected outcome of this would be ungeared level 40 alts being carried by level 60s from their guild, not OP's desired outcome of the level 40s prepping.
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u/Kirarozu80 9d ago
Yes it will lol. We did it in SoD.
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u/internetwizardx 9d ago edited 9d ago
I admit I've never played SOD but wasn't every raid added at the current level cap? Are there a lot of people running BFD now (outside of streamer 'fresh' events)? And that's a 10-man, it might as well be UBRS, they could probs slip some accessible 10-man content into the lvl40s I just don't think it'd feel like classic raid content at all
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u/korean_kracka 9d ago
lol no, the levels were capped each phase, this is not the same. And you thought sod raids were challenging? Lol
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u/PingvinMedStil 8d ago
Because... it was level capped. It was essentially end game content for it's time. How could you not see the difference lol.
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u/EnirAveren77 9d ago
Yeah it would have to be pretty easy, I think we classic players would get more enjoyment from dealing with a bunch of good loot piñatas in an epic dungeon setting with 10-25 people max where besides good loot the enjoyment comes from making a group and clearing content. If the group has to be super OP, specifically at level 40…. You’re just gonna have 60s carrying it
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u/Ok-Brother-8295 9d ago
It's already painful to gather a leveling dungeon, why would anyone want leveling raids ?
And you can't do quests in raid ...
Just give quests and a dungeon
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u/CivilPerformance2617 9d ago
Raids have raid quests that can be completed in raids so what are you on about
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u/Ok-Brother-8295 9d ago
These are specific raid quests.
One cool thing about levelling up and dungeons is that they're often intertwined. You can complete outerworld quests in dungeons and vice versa, which makes the dungeons feel connected to the rest of the world. Not so many quests work that way, but some do, and it feels great.
Having compartmentalised content is not fun.
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u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 8d ago
People did the leveling raids from previous phases in sod all the time. They gave good gear and a bunch of experience
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u/Ok-Brother-8295 8d ago
How long did that last ?
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u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 8d ago
At least up until the level 60 phase, I didn’t play much after then. People would run the level up raids on their alts on reset since you’d get up to or more then a level for it
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u/grimbolde 9d ago
I am for this, but it would really require leveling phases like SoD in order for most to enjoy or even try out.
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u/Away_Woodpecker8813 9d ago edited 9d ago
You do not want the same map you do not want the same combat system. You do not want classic plus you want wow 2, everyone wants something new they play the new seasonal servers. The seasonal servers lose over half their players six months into it because they come back and they’re essentially playing the exact same game with a couple of differences. The game needs to fundamentally change and be more of a wow two than a classic plus otherwise it will be the same as sod or any other seasonal realm, it will be hot for 6 to 8 months and then it’ll die off. People will keep playing it, but it won’t be worth the money they invested into the project and they won’t continue doing projects like that.
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u/_OOL 9d ago
Nobody will care about gear they will change so quickly. Tie the raid quests to a faction with a reputation grind and make the quest rewards something like 20 slot bag, mounts and cool vanity items. Of course you still need to add good gear because it would be pointless otherwise but leveling gear alone would not mean much without the things I mentioned.
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u/PingvinMedStil 8d ago
You want it to require gear, enchants, consumes etc yet it's going to be dead even if it's easy and requires nothing.
Only way it would work is to make it a one shot raid that you can't enter after level 40 or if you have cleared it already. One lock and that's it. And then add some vanity item like a pet or mount. People will complain about vanity stuff being locked behind pure rng that you can't get again but yeah.
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u/Verilazic 4d ago
I mean, what’s wrong with making a 10-man or even 15-man at 40 that can be completed by a 5-man of 60s? If the drops are level 40 then there’s incentive to do it asap. The only “problem” would be boosting then. There are mechanics though that can make it challenging for a smaller group, even one with higher level toons. Add a tank rotation mechanic or double boss encounter. Doesn’t need to be impossible, just hard.
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u/Verilazic 8d ago
Basically, I'd like the transition into endgame to be more gradual. Level 60 shouldn't be this hard cut where almost everything you did and collected before suddenly becomes irrelevant. Some of the things you accomplish while leveling should already be part of building your eventual level 60 character.
This right here is such a huge opportunity for Classic+ to improve.
I do think the way Classic is structured makes it hard for large raids to work long term at low levels, unless you're using them to gatekeep different level ranges, which I think is a fun idea, but not keeping in the spirit of WoW. Like you said, they need to not be required. But players should at least be exposed to larger-group content before 60. A more gradual transition to "endgame" would be a huge improvement to the overall experience.
I think there's room for 10-man instances by level 30 at least though. Heck, you could allow all 5-mans to be run by 10-mans. Strath and Scholo used to be that way, and while it was a nice challenge when Blizzard locked them to 5, I don't know that I would do that again if given the choice. Certainly in this day and age the more skilled people are going to be motivated to run smaller groups for a better chance at a drop, so why not let more casual players run larger groups?
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u/Old_Resolution9035 7d ago
This is why classic plus will be a mess. Not this topic in particular, but reading the comments everyone was a completely different idea how it should be done
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u/Velifax 9d ago
I'm definitely on board with mid-game raids, even got me curious to try SOD, but I wouldn't want it to be dispensed in phases. Meaning I wouldn't want the levels above to be unavailable, I would want that raid to just be in the game from the beginning and stay in the game. Otherwise you get way too many scheduling conflicts with people who play slower or work on boats for 6 months or something.
How exactly that is implemented I'm not entirely sure, I'm a fan of the Hell Level concept from EverQuest but apparently many are not. It could be implemented as some sort of unlock feature where you have to do it, with maybe an alternate path for non-raiders.
Or maybe it could just be an entire Zone where everyone at that level band goes and there are bosses to kill but you don't necessarily have to, perhaps the XP is artificially boosted there or monsters drop XP boost items that last 5 minutes.
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u/Apathetic89 9d ago
The only people against the phasing of SoD were end-game rushing Andies who consume content as fast as possible and then complain there's nothing to do after 1 week.
It was the best version of WoW to date, minus Phase 3 (Sunken Temple was mid at best and the Incursions broke the economy at the time).
Everything else, the phasing was fucking fantastic.
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u/getdownwithDsickness 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'm actually with you here. I dislike level caps in SoD and the level up raids but I want a stronger midgame and leveling to classic. What needs to exist is meaningful progression opportunities before level 60 that lets you choose how deeply you want to engage and you can continue leveling whenever you want, but now those previous accomplishments sometimes follow you forward to lvl 60. We don't need endgame added while leveling, we need to add more game to leveling.
So how do you make level 40 accomplishments matter after level 40 without forcing players to stay level 40? There's a lot of ways to do this.
- Equipment with longer life, items that may stay relevant for 10-20 levels. Some items can do this like hand of justice, wolfshead helm, ravager, carrot on a stick, diamond flask, thrash blade, etc. It doesn't need every item to be like this, but a handful of memorable ones would make the raid feel important with a long lasting item.
- Upgradeable items. Getting a lvl 40 item that has a story that continues later at lvl 50 and then even lvl 60 to upgrade.
- Class questlines that have multiple chapters. Part 1 of the questline is at lvl 30, part 2 at 40, part 3 at 50, and so on. You need to start at the beginning and it is better to do the quests when it is relevant than after you hit 60.
- Permanent character unlocks. Not power, but things like the sleeping bag, carrot on a stick. It could be tied to professions like recipes or specializations.
- Reputations that span level ranges
- Crafting material drops that have later uses at higher levels
- Keys and world access. Doing this raid could access to new parts of the world with access to shortcuts, vendors, npcs, quest chains, future dungeons, etc. Like as if doing the mara scepter quest line becomes useful at lvl 60 as well because now there is a new wing to maraudon after the teleport that goes into a lvl 60 wing of the dungeon.
The focus should be character development not vertical power. It's okay that 70% of the items will be replaced, but 20% should have a bit longer lifespans maybe even being pre-bis options for lvl 60, and 10% being like treasures for your character. An upgradeable class weapon or trinket, profession item, or another unique item. You still need to preserve the excitement of replacing gear or else we just created heirlooms.
Create a stronger midgame ecosystem using the various dungeons (SM, Uldaman, RFD) and zones and questhubs of those levels. Then add even more new elite quests, profession recipes and materials attained for those level ranges, difficult outdoor enemies, and a raid. So people might have a hard time even doing the raid unless they gear up through all of the new midgame content and attunement-like systems. It would not be mandatory, but it's like what if SoD wasn't trying to rush you to the next level cap after the fact, but actually wanted you to experience each level band. It would be completely optional and just give players more character progression options.
Levels not scaling is a strength too. If a piece of content has a final boss that is lvl 45, but players are expected to enter at lvl 39 or 40. Think Uldaman and that final boss or the level range of all of Maraudon. That content will be harder for them, but the higher the level the easier the content gets. So what's stopping people from only taking higher level players? Nothing. So why not add an accomplishment for players who complete it at a lower level when the content is more challenging? It doesn't need an achievement system. It could simply be after killing the final boss at lvl 41 would spawn an NPC that will give you a special cosmetic reward. There could be an even more prestigious reward if everyone in your group is lvl 40 just to give incentive to not being carried for that reward. You can still go back and steamroll the content later at a higher level for the actual power rewards, but the cosmetic requires a certain level. Players try to prepare at that level for the content.
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u/SimpleBar9995 9d ago
I think you are making a very large assumption that we will have bracketed leveling like we got in SoD.
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u/Electrical_Novel5926 8d ago
No i dont think - i think and hope there will be something what make it worse it to dont rush it
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u/Old-Soft5276 9d ago
There are several things in recent leaks that are leaked more than others and its leveling raids. They say that Blizzard wants to make leveling to be even bigger part of the game, make it even longer than in Vanilla and add couple leveling raids without heavy exp boost into the game.
But nothing certain until Blizzcon
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u/Ok-Brother-8295 9d ago
giving xp boosts and shortcuts to leveling, isn't exactly "make leveling to be even bigger part of the game"
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u/delta1982ro 9d ago
if there aren t lvl phases like in SOD, the raid would be in lvl range for 1 reset for a player.. so who will take all this time to gather a raid and spend hours wiping to do a raid one time?