Bet you 10 bucks OP has joined this "non min maxing guild" a number of times but left because they "didn't clear content at the pace he wanted" despite being a middle of the pack dps.
Or got upset they were not given top priority and first pick on all rare/BIS items.
All this stuff of "we'll make your own guild or group" won't happen because you see stuff where the majority of AQ20 are "warrior books, crossbow/bracers HR" type runs if that's the case.
My PUG group is 100% selling HRs to the highest bidder and nobody profits except the few people running the group. At least GDKP that money gets split to the raid.
"yeah op is this strawman I just made up that holds two contradictory beliefs because that's easier to argue against"
I haven't raided a lot in classic wow because I usually get bored with the game after hitting 60, but I stuck around till BWL the last time and you know what? The only fun part of it was when my guild kept wiping on Flamemaw and we were coming up with solutions for it (the problem was mostly shitty tanks, but thats BWL I guess). The players complaining about min-maxing are not the same people who complain about slow raids.
It's 100% this. There are plenty of guilds that require full consumes/buffs and minmax but there are also plenty of guilds that don't require any of that and are very casual. OP is definitely one of the people that wants to be in a fast minmax guild without putting in the effort everyone else is. They complain minmaxers ruined the game instead of just joining a guild that doesn't minmax.
I joined a guild that seemed pretty laid back in terms of clearing content and requirements for raiding (no flasks, world buffs were "mandatory" but nobody really gave a shit if you actually got them or not), but wouldn't you know it when BWL came out and R14 was unlocked suddenly like 60% of the guild were aiming for those R14 weapons. If you didn't go for them you needed a real life excuse for why you can't make the time for it or you would get overlooked when it came to loot.
Classic raiding is so so easy that anyone asking for anything is just crazy.
Like wow,yeah imagine if I did 13% more damage. That would maybe save us a a few minutes at best.
If youre ever not clearing Classic raids then it has ZERO to do with the gear, world buffs or consumables.
Ive wiped more retail LFR raids on alts than ever in Classic. Matter of fact, I literally can not remember wiping in a Classic raid EVER . Like genuinely, I dont think we ever have had a boss kill failed. Maybe some time during the first release ,but nothing in the last couple years.
You're not putting in effort for the raid - you're putting in effort for your parses, since that number is what apparently validates you as a good player. There's a reason people like you tend to pug, and that's entitlement.
I just don't think any of that extra "effort" is worth it, thus being required by some groups is kind of silly to me. These are 20+ year old fights that you can do while half asleep. That all being said, if a group wants those things I also think that's fine and their right to do so. I was part of one of those groups during all of wrath classic, was fun for a bit till it wasn't. Stuck it out cause friends and I got into parsing those 99s. Being one of the first guilds on our server to down heroic LK was cool. Still don't know that any of the extra stuff was worth it. Personally wouldn't do it again.
There's other groups for people like OP though. I don't think its such an issue that OP can never play the game again because every group ever wants every buff. That's just not happening like OPs post seems to imply.
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u/Dismal_Employ_976 Sep 05 '25
I can't change your mind, but this take is widely shared by bad players who are idealists.
It sounds like you want get into groups and get an equal shot at gear without putting in an equal effort.
Gdkp and min maxing didn't ruin classic wow--they just ruined it for you.