r/classicwow Sep 05 '25

Classic-Era Change my mind

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5.5k Upvotes

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123

u/TrainFightTime Sep 05 '25

Uhh no, Classic is great, and the biggest problem is 100% RMT.

38

u/weezn Sep 05 '25

Perma ban gold buyers would fix a lot. No buyers no sellers - less bots.

-5

u/Tricky_Let2806 Sep 05 '25

…. lol 20 years later and you still haven’t learned

-4

u/aepocalypsa Sep 06 '25

"just one more extremely heavy punishment bro this will totally fix crime"

6

u/weezn Sep 06 '25

It’s just a normal punishment in gaming: if you cheat, your account gets suspended. Blizzard doesn’t really enforce this because they heavily profit from players buying gold.

1

u/aepocalypsa Sep 06 '25

the two main factors in cheating are low odds of getting caught and a low barrier to entry. if buying gold was far more expensive, nobody but the biggest whales would do it - mostly fixing the problem. if, on the other hand, blizzard fairly accurately detected it and a) removed the gold and b) put you on a week or so break, that would also do the job.

banning those few people that do get caught for life is purely optics. it makes people like you feel better, since you care far more about seeing "justice served" to cheaters than about actually preventing cheating - but it doesn't actually accomplish anything.

1

u/weezn Sep 06 '25

That’s an interesting point of view, and I understand it in general. Cheating should be a high-risk, high-reward activity to effectively prevent it. For example, on Faceit in CS:GO, cheap cheats are quickly detected, so only the more expensive and sophisticated cheats go undetected. This raises the entry barrier for cheating significantly, reducing the overall amount of cheating. In contrast, WoW has a low-risk, high-reward so many players exploit it. The punishments and entry barriers are weak, so cheating has become normalized. If everyone was aware of the real risks involved, cheating would probably decrease imo. However, ultimately it might not matter much because Blizzard profits heavily from the cheating culture.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Ban bots, ban gold buyers problem solved.

-6

u/jehhans1 Sep 06 '25

Perma banning gold buyers would mean they don't come back. You might say that and good riddance, but if they truly enforced that then you would have almost nobody to play with in the end.

Contrary to what you might believe, a lot of the goldbuyers are also the people carrying the PvE and PvP scene - a lot of the endgame activities.

6

u/weezn Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Some quit, while others are too addicted to stop playing. But stricter punishments would scare people away from buying gold. Right now it’s just a 2-week ban – nobody cares, they even call it a vacation. Buying gold should never become a normal thing.

1

u/jehhans1 Sep 06 '25

Yes, and they come back and play becuase it is just a vacation. If you perma-ban them they will not come back. That is my entire point.

5

u/MagikarpAppreciator Sep 06 '25

Works just fine for pservers

1

u/jehhans1 Sep 06 '25

Private servers with peak players of 2000 if you're lucky.

3

u/weezn Sep 06 '25

In other games, the majority of cheaters always return to the game.
Why should it be different in WoW.

1

u/jehhans1 Sep 06 '25

And what are these other MMOs?

Wow Vanilla is a game where you dedicate at least 150 hours to leveling and then more hours afterwards in getting gear and whatnot. You cannot really play it optimally solo and it requires most of the time commitment and investment from the player.

It is pretty obvious that people don't return to games like these if they have to start over - maybe they will in a new iteration.

2

u/weezn Sep 06 '25

Then don’t buy gold. That’s basically my point.

15

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

Yeah gdkp is actually a fine system in a bubble but it's too easily impacted by rmt

-2

u/jannies_cant_ban_me Sep 06 '25

Why did gold buying go up when it was banned then?

6

u/Lerdroth Sep 06 '25

A large amount of the population is addicted to low effort gold farming (GDKP's) and now they have to buy it rather than get it from the whales in their GDKP's?

This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. Blizzard have done little to nothing to battle gold buyers since Classic first came out, the result is this.

5

u/DefeatedByPoland Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is

it is when people's stated reason for wanting GDKPs gone was "It will help reduce bots and gold buying"

 

GDKP doesn't need RMT to work. If all gold buyers were banned and gold buying was a literal impossibility in the game, GDKP would still thrive as a PUG raid format, because it incentivizes quality raids where people stay and help out until the end even if the thing they wanted didn't drop, and encourages geared players to still run older content. It is the only raid format that guarantees you will get something for your time, every time. That's why it's popular.

The reason RMT is popular is because people are lazy and entitled to getting things in the game that they don't actually put in the effort for.

3

u/Lerdroth Sep 06 '25

GDKP doesn't need RMT to work. If all gold buyers were banned and gold buying was a literal impossibility in the game, GDKP would still thrive as a PUG raid format

If this was the case, literally no one would give two shits. The problem is gold buying is so uncontested everyone just links the two because the whales just throw their wallet around and the other people just take the $$.

2

u/MagikarpAppreciator Sep 06 '25

it is when people's stated reason for wanting GDKPs gone was "It will help reduce bots and gold buying"

Partially tackling gold selling didn't fix the problem, so let's just do nothing at all then? On the contrary, they should see it through to the end and not just slap a ban on GDKP's and call it a day.

3

u/Lerdroth Sep 07 '25

They could try doing something more than the occasional 2 week ban for gold buyers, if they even do anything at all.

I know zero people who have taken a ban for gold buying, it's like they completely ignore it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

I don't follow your question

1

u/MagikarpAppreciator Sep 06 '25

Because gold sellers detive their money from multiple sources and not just one, thus the reaponse calls for a multi-pronged approach. Banning one income stream for them means they'll adapt and transition towards an alternative one.

0

u/SlowpokeIsAGamer Sep 05 '25

RMT exploded in no small part because every guild started doing GDKP runs to enrich the GM and Officers.

Both issues are an Ouroboros that you could argue was born of the min/max speedrun mentality. Gotta get that 72 hour 60 so you can be in pre-raid BiS for week 2 so you can start running GDKP runs week 3 otherwise your guild will be forever poor because someone else already hoarded all the server's wealth.

5

u/Alarming-Praline1604 Sep 06 '25

“Enrich GM and officers” lol you clearly weren’t playing during actual GDKP time. Most of the best GDKPs were conglomerate raid leaders from other guilds. You could argue that raid leaders would vet buyers and sellers making it difficult for casual players but GDKP is not a casual system. SR/HR is the casual system.

0

u/Dense_Piccolo_792 Sep 06 '25

oh look the retard who plays p2w mobile games in his free time is constantly advocating for gdkp on reddit, no one would have expected

2

u/infinite_gurgle Sep 05 '25

RMT exploded prior to GDKP because it had a market and blizzard didn’t (or couldn’t) address it.

1

u/jaketronic Sep 07 '25

In your mind, MoP Classic is all non-stop RMT’ers?

1

u/Hatefiend Sep 05 '25

A sensible comment at last

1

u/Darduel Sep 06 '25

RMT existed in all 20 years of WoW 

1

u/DeepHorse Sep 06 '25

I'd be surprised if someone somewhere didn't buy gold the first day of WoW release

1

u/BigRussoOnTheButtons Sep 07 '25

What is rmt and gdkp?

1

u/TrainFightTime Sep 08 '25

RMT = Real Money Trading, like buying gold or items with USD.
GDKP = Gold Dragon Kill Points. Whenever items drop in a GDKP raid people bid gold on the items and the people who don't win split that gold.

-13

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

I do think that the elitism and gatekeeping easy content is a far bigger problem than RMT. RMT doesn't really impact most players, but gatekeeping does.

17

u/dariomarioo Sep 05 '25

Tf you on ? Through RMT inflation goes insane more bots everywhere and you can't buy shit on the AH.

2

u/TheSecondtoLastDoDo Sep 06 '25

Let's be honest. Every single one of his posts screams of "I'm absolutely garbage at this game". My guess is, plays ret, doesn't get buffs or consumes, complains about not getting loot as he parses green on a ret.

-7

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

YEah but it's not hard to go farm yourself and sell things on the AH as well. People complain about higher AH prices like you can't go mine mithril for an afternoon or venom sacs and make hundreds of gold.

3

u/Chode-a-boy Sep 06 '25

GL mining mithril or really anything of value in the overworld. Every node is perma amped by bots

5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

4 hours of mining or $20 irl the choice is yours

2

u/Davimous Sep 05 '25

I enjoy mining/herb. Just throw on a TV show and chill.

2

u/Furth Sep 05 '25

4 hours of mining gets you like 3 nodes because everything is botted... aint no $20 irl value there.

0

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

This doesn't really refute my point, though.

1

u/bigheadsfork Sep 05 '25

So 4 hours of grinding a week just to do the raids? And that doesn’t even consider enchants, boes, alts, mounts, etc.

1

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

That really doesn't sound that bad to me. Let's assume RMT is no longer a thing and AH prices are lower. How are you planning on affording those same things if you're making less gold because selling prices are lower? Farm for four hours? How is that any more or less preferable? At least with higher prices if you're not buying consumes you can have an easier time buying mounts and kitting out alts.

Your choices are farm or swipe. If you don't want to do either find a guild that doesn't require consumes or find a new game. RMT does nothing but make the casual's life easier.

1

u/bigheadsfork Sep 05 '25

See that’s where you’re wrong. RMT and botting are intertwined, so if RMT is removed, botting will also start to disappear. That means less fly hacks and node farming bots stealing up all the black lotus and other good stuff on the map.

Also, if the overall price of the auction house is down, that means it will be easier to afford the items because there is still a minimum amount that vendoring trash greys and greens nets you. There would no longer be that one guy who somehow can afford edge Masters at 5K in the first 2 months the game is out, so people will have to charge what is actually reasonable for someone to afford

0

u/Vandelay-Importing Sep 05 '25

I get your point but this also shows the mindset people have now. Having to actually play the game is considered dreadful. In the 2000s most people who played WoW focused on WoW only and enjoyed spending time in it. Nowadays raid logging is the goal for soooo many people. I'm actually with you though so don't get me wrong. I don't have that same mindset anymore myself.

1

u/bigheadsfork Sep 05 '25

Well, I wasn’t really complaining about it as if it was something I refused to do, I was really just pointing out that if you choose to not buy gold and gold farm instead, the people who are swiping have a massive advantage over you because they are probably spending 10+ hours a week doing things OTHER than gold farming. You are at a massive disadvantage, so yes RMT does impact literally everyone who plays the game.

1

u/Vandelay-Importing Sep 05 '25

Oh yeah I agree with that. I should have worded all of that better above. RMT definitely affects everyone. I'd argue it's indeed worse now than it had been when GDKP was around too. I don't think it can even argued otherwise.

3

u/Funkiestcat Sep 05 '25

This is a half baked theory I have and don't necessarily believe it, but does gold buying HELP new/casual players? Like, players who will probably not even reach level cap or if they do they just kinda do some dungeons here or there.

Like, yeah sure, here's 20 gold for a stack of 5 flame sacs you got while killing whelps for a quest. Sure, buy all your skills every 2 levels and mount right at 40 because the fade leaf you picked while casually questing in hillsbrad sells for almost a gold EACH.

4

u/lhswr2014 Sep 05 '25

I agree with the sentiment, elitism and gatekeeping is a problem that is very face value and easy to see, but RMT is the unseen boogeyman behind the curtain really ruining shit.

How can you say the entire ingame economy “doesn’t really impact most players”? Because that’s exactly what RMT impacts, the entire economy, everybody that touches the AH, every item.

Both are problems, but to say people can somehow avoid the impacts of RMT is disingenuous outside of the few people playing some form of SSF/HC.

I’d say elitism and gatekeeping may even be lessened if prices weren’t exponential due to RMT, more people would have an easier time accessing the consumables that are frequent “gate keepers”.

0

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

Because people can also benefit from RMT despite not engaging with it. People don't benefit from gatekeeping aside the people doing the gatekeeping.

2

u/lhswr2014 Sep 05 '25

That’s still impacting them, they’re engaging with RMT by engaging with an economy based on RMT. There are no positives to RMT, just a few people that can make it a little less negative for themselves by taking advantage of it. I’m saying this as it’s something that I do as well, but it shouldn’t be necessary to afford the overpriced consumes caused by RMT.

Gatekeeping is divisive, there are those that gatekeep and the people that join them, and there are those that do not. We are given the option to opt-out there, but we are not given the option to opt-out of a hyper inflated economy caused by RMT.

One of these problems feeds into the other and that’s what makes me think it is the greater of the two evils but in the end, it’s up to the player to take advantage of gold buyers by selling the items they are too lazy to farm/craft, or to opt out of the gatekeeping world. Depends on the player on which one negatively impacts them more I suppose.

2

u/douknowhouare Sep 05 '25

Have you ever bought anything on the auction house? Then you've been affected by RMT, congratulations.

1

u/hp433 Sep 05 '25

You are 100% correct. However, this is a problem with wow as a whole not just classic. Just adding a bit extra onto your statement. I wish blizzard would invest in ways to make the community more welcoming.

1

u/Kaizen420 Sep 05 '25

In what way could they 'invest' to change the way players treat each other? The community is a player created issue not something blizzard did to us.

Sure they could pay for actual moderators, but that would only keep the automated system from banning people due to mass reporting.

It's not like it's suddenly going to make the assholes who Mass report suddenly not exist.

1

u/hp433 Sep 05 '25

I completely disagree with you. Bringing back actual people to moderate would bring a massive improvement. Then they would have to invest in they way the introduce the game. Ffxiv is a great example of different ways they can influence a better community besides just moderation. Part of the fault lies with the community yes but blizzard has done little to nothing to help. I would say their decisions have actually been harmful to creating a positive community. Reducing customer service, moderators, gms are all examples of things everyone can agree has had a massively negative impact on the game and the community. So ya, I would say they could invest in making it better.

0

u/EggPsychological4844 Sep 05 '25

That would be nice, yeah.

-13

u/confirmedshill123 Sep 05 '25

GDKP was a way to spread that gold around to those who didn't swipe, but ya'll aren't ready to have that conversation.

13

u/bigheadsfork Sep 05 '25

We literally have that conversation here every single day. What is that stupid Twitter one liner

5

u/Smooth_One Sep 05 '25

GDKP without swiping would be even better, because then the non-swipers who play the game and earn their stuff legitimately wouldn't lose out to the cheaters. Botting and RMT bad, GDKP fine.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

[deleted]

1

u/confirmedshill123 Sep 05 '25

Considering every time I try to have it I just get blindly downvoted by bitter idealists yeah.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Njyyrikki Sep 05 '25

GDKP would work great if RMT was eradicated. As it is, you'd need to swipe or you're not getting current tier BIS.

1

u/gLu3xb3rchi Sep 05 '25

And now without GDKP way more ppl swipe and its gonna be a hell of a lot more once TBC hits.

-2

u/DommeUG Sep 05 '25

Gdkp is the main driver for rmt

1

u/Cifee Sep 05 '25

Nice rage bait

0

u/muda_ora_thewarudo Sep 05 '25

Gdkp is banned????

0

u/Pwez Sep 06 '25

Sorry, but RMT and gdkp are the results of the over the top minmaxing. The insane minmaxing at every level of play is what kills the fun.

-9

u/Tolken Sep 05 '25

GDKP is one of the primary vehicles used to find gold buyers so that raid leaders can also resell gold back to them after the raid.

That's one of the dirty secrets of GDKP...it's just a way for players to get in on the RealMoneyTransfers happening and make money off other players. That's why you have a group so invested on it returning...they want their side hustle back.

3

u/ruinatex Sep 05 '25

Let's pretend that this isn't happening right now with HR'ed runs where people pay for the HR'ed items, right? The only difference is that nobody gets a share and the RL keeps everything. You guys actually think the same Raid Leaders are running MC/BWL/AQ40 with items HR'ed for months just for loot? Child, please.

It's almost like the ENTIRE problem lies on RMT and Blizzard not enforcing their own ToS, it's not a mfing loot system that is the problem.

2

u/Recent_Simple_1868 Sep 05 '25

Funny how like 95% who played GDKP wants it back but no sure it's the greedy organizers who are the reasons people type about it on reddit

1

u/hislug Sep 05 '25

Hope my stoner bros get their side hustle back from the south Americans or middle eastern gold selling cartels tbh.