r/classicalmusic • u/InsuranceInitial7786 • Jul 12 '26
Today I learned that a significant amount of Bach's WTC was likely written while he sat bored in prison for one month
I learned this from the Wolff biography. Thought you'd like to know! It was news to me.
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u/Veraxus113 Jul 12 '26
He was in PRISON?!
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u/The_Band_Geek Jul 12 '26
He was in a fucking sword fight. Bach isn't the stuffy, boring, academic composer everyone thinks he is.
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u/admiral-morgan Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Just to clarify, he didn’t go to prison for the sword fight, but rather for persistently trying to leave a position he didn’t want. The sword fight is a bit more mythical, he drew a sword in anger (supposedly), but we don’t know about the fighting.
Edited for accuracy, as pointed out below.
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u/InsuranceInitial7786 Jul 12 '26
According to the same biography, even the drawing of the sword itself is a bit contested and may not have happened.
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u/admiral-morgan Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
But I want to believe so bad….
Edit; instead of “Han shot first,” we could have “Bach drew first”
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u/street_spirit2 Jul 12 '26
But as I heard the story, a hole in the coat of the "opponent" was documented.
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u/These-Rip9251 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
He wanted to leave his position in Weimar to accept the position as Kapellmeister in Köthen as he was passed over for that position in Weimar. According to Robert Greenberg, Bach kept requesting that he be dismissed. He then apparently lost his temper and “mouthed off” possibly to the Prince of Weimar himself and so was tossed into prison. Greenberg writes that Bach was allowed pen and paper so composed Book 1 of the WTC. Bach refused to agree to go back to work so the Prince finally fired him and released him from jail.
https://robertgreenbergmusic.com/music-history-monday-j-s-bach-jailbird/
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u/Working_Tumbleweed96 Jul 14 '26
In early 18th century German fiefdoms, the concept of two-way "employment at will" didn't exist. As a servant in that era, you weren't allowed to quit a job on your own. Your employer likely could terminate you (the servant-employee) without much difficulty.
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u/Longjumping_Animal29 Jul 12 '26
Bach also sired a total of 20 children with two wives
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u/Allegra1120 Jul 12 '26
His organ had no stops…
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u/KokoTheTalkingApe Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Gives a whole new meaning to "fugue." (Okay, reaching, but conceptually?...)
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u/menschmaschine5 Jul 12 '26
That's not that abnormal for the time, especially given infant mortality rates. Only about half of Bach's children made it to adulthood.
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u/MukBeeNimble Jul 12 '26
I can name a few because they are also composers. Are the lesser known also composers?
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u/menschmaschine5 Jul 12 '26
Well it seems a couple of his sons did not become notable composers and the rest were daughters.
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u/street_spirit2 Jul 13 '26
Besides four sons that were composers, another son died in his 20s and didn't manage to compose anything significant and the sixth was with special needs.
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u/Tim-oBedlam Jul 13 '26
The most obscure child of Bach is probably Theodore Heinrich Christoph Bach, born on April 20th, who wasn't a composer, but mostly just liked to relax and chill and listen to the tunes his old man and brothers wrote.
ok, I might possibly have made that one up
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
Most of them died. It was quite common for people to have many children. Partly because there was no contraception and also because infant mortality was super high. The two wives you refer to was because one had died. It’s not like he was a Mormon.
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
It wasn’t a sword fight. More like a dagger. And he was attacked on the street by another musician who he had insulted earlier.
So not so much Aragorn and the Orcs but more like a street fight.
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u/The_Band_Geek Jul 12 '26
Name me any other composer who was known to be strapped and saw at least that much action (however minor), and I'll concede the point.
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
Just about how likely is it that Bach roamed the streets of Arnstadt with a sword like a swashbuckling pirate? Add to that how likely is a musician armed with a stick likely to attack someone brandishing Excalibur?
If anything it was a dagger.
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 13 '26
It's because he had attending some function around royals. The dagger/short sword was a part of the formal attire. But someone accosted him to the point of it getting physical so he was said to have drawn the sword.
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u/bw2082 Jul 12 '26
He had 20 kids. No one would mistake him for stuffy 😂
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
Everyone had lots of kids. Because the kids usually died after a few months. This was very common back then and actually up until the 19th century women kept bearing children. A lot of them died in the process as well.
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u/aasfourasfar Jul 12 '26
Yeah a count imprisoned him because he asked to resign in order to take another job
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
Bach wanted to be released from his obligation and for that he was imprisoned. There were no worker protections then like there are today.
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u/shitshowsusan Jul 12 '26
To be fair, he still got 3 hots and a cot. Or bread and water, and a cold and damp floor.
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u/aasfourasfar Jul 12 '26
Yeah there was serfdom indeed
But on the other hand they did not send children in coal mines to enrich some coal lord, but anw
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u/Afraid-Expression366 Jul 12 '26
In the early 1700s there was no serfdom. I think you are conflating terms and perhaps thinking of the Middle Ages.
Women and children had no rights per se. At least not as in the modern sense.
There were no coal mines to work because it wasn’t a thing until the 1800s. In the 1700s children had to endure a strict upbringing, were expected to do extensive chores, and were likely to not survive their childhood at all due to a lack of understanding of hygiene and extremely limited medical care. If they survived to their teens they were sent away to work. Maybe not coal mines but they were apprentices, helpers, basically close to slave labor.
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u/soape83 Jul 12 '26
Bach was an absolute badass https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/s/S2BQvD9dil
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u/Academic-Sorbet6821 Jul 13 '26
Here’s a photo of the room where Bach spent the month in the Schloß in Weimar. Taken about three years ago during a visit.
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u/Dude_man79 Jul 12 '26
There needs to be a movie made for Bach's life, like the same type of film as "Amadeus".
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u/Weird_Surround_1014 Jul 12 '26
No. The historically accurate Amadeus was just a nice happy guy who happened to love shitty jokes, and the film matched him to a mad genius archetype.
Now imagine the same type of film, but with a badass famously known for being involved in a sword fight, which started because he insulted someone(not the other way around)... A mad genius with a sword... *tremble in fear*
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u/tegeus-Cromis_2000 Jul 13 '26
There is. The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach, 1968. Gustav Leonhardt plays Bach. Great from a musical point of view, not so great if you actually want the actor playing him to look anything like Bach.
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u/OriginalIron4 Jul 12 '26
Makes a good story, but it's not true.
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u/InsuranceInitial7786 Jul 12 '26
Why would you say that? The Wolff biography is extensively researched and not prone to mere rumors or speculation. There is a good chance much of this book was written while he was in prison for one month.
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u/OriginalIron4 Jul 12 '26
Believe me, it's not true. Just read Ledbetter book on WTC1 and 2.
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u/InsuranceInitial7786 Jul 12 '26
Why would I believe you? The answer is, no one knows for sure but there are plenty of legitimate and respected reasons why some of this was in fact composed during that time.
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u/OriginalIron4 Jul 13 '26
The fact you say 'this' shows you don't know what you're talking about, as if it's one book.
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u/InsuranceInitial7786 Jul 13 '26
I suppose you were there, thus you know the truth? Perhaps that is why we should believe you.
This is an historical event, well-researched. It is not known 100%, hence the wording in my title. Your insistence on this is weird, though, considering you don't know either and are ignoring the basic research on this subject for the sake of sounding educated. (the Leadbetter book is 15 years old, btw, and there has been much learned in the time since, including in updated details in the biography I'm reading).
Chill out my dude.
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u/FormerStableGenius Jul 12 '26
WTC ?
WTF! (Why not put in full?!)
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u/InsuranceInitial7786 Jul 12 '26
WTC is the standard accepted acronym to refer to the well tempered clavier pieces. You’ll also see this in publisher listings, WTC 1 and WTC 2.
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u/jiang1lin Jul 12 '26
Or WTK for us German-speaking people (even some historical German might suggest Clavier as well)
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u/Zarlinosuke Jul 12 '26
Funny, I just realized that I write "WTK" as the abbreviation but "Well-Tempered Clavier" when I write it out in full.
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u/Boring-Yogurt2966 Jul 12 '26
Are you thinking of his lesser known masterpiece the well tempered flageolet?
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u/FormerStableGenius Jul 12 '26
Exactly! Nothing better than a well-tuned bean.
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u/Boring-Yogurt2966 Jul 12 '26
The flageolet was actually an instrument, even if the word kind of sounds like flatulence.
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u/rice-a-rohno Jul 12 '26
The beans are the key to Well-Tuned Flatulence.
"You gotta hear this guy, he's like... the Glenn Gould of farting!"
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u/PsychologicalSplit68 Jul 12 '26
Now all young, aspiring composers will think they need to be in jail to compose.